Caliber choice for pesting

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Wow! I didn't realize that a .177, at around 600 fps, would take out animals like that at 25-30 yards!
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for under 10 yards my 7101P shoot the 5.7 grain pellet at 500fps drops rats dead no problem even have pass through if I hit them in the neck. My challenger killed few rats from 34 yards with 7.4 grain crosman pellets flying 500fps with one shot. My second 1701P shoots the same 5.7g pellets @500FPS out to 34 yards drops house sparrows like a boss! 10.5 Hades at 600FPS will still get pass through at 25-34 yards on 2lb fox squirrels unless I hit a major bone like the shoulder area. 
 
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I shoot 10.5 grain domed (CPUM/LUM77) pellets at ~720-750fps for ~12-13fpe.

For my relatively short range backyard pesting, even at the lower end (~12fpe) I still get pass through on tree rats and chipmunks.

If I could find a ~10.5 HP pellet that shot accurately out of my gun, I would try it, but I seriously doubt it would make much difference concerning pass through as I doubt the pellets would actually expand enough to make a difference. AND if they are less accurate, then that point is moot anyway.

In my backyard, pass through and the available backstop determines whether or not I take the shot.

Also, I like the fact that the 10.5 grain pellets (at ~720-750fps) ballistics fit my backyard range (~15-45 yards) perfectly. 

Or nearly so as most of my shots are within the PBR, so no holdover/holdunder is necessary and for the longer shots, the holdover is minimal and easy to remember.
 
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I agree with the comments that the wider holes from the 22 and 25 will tend to reduce penetration but their heavier pellets will tend to increase it. I've tested my one 22 and my two 25s penetration in wet paper (and also a couple pump ups). Heavier pellets penetrate further in my Prod even though they are going slower. If they expand (which is rare with the Prod) then that really reduces penetration. I haven't shot as many different pellets through the 25s but I see the same things. Heavier pellets penetrate further than lighters ones and expansion really reduced penetration. Your example 22 and 25 are going too slow to cause any projectile to expand. But an expanding projectile in the 177 might and it would be my choice. Like a polymag or metalmag.

I'd test to find find out which rifle penetrates the most. I don't think it is that obvious because of the effect of pellet weight. But you can reduce the penetration of the 177 by choosing an expanding projectile.
 
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the wider holes from the 22 and 25 will tend to reduce penetration but their heavier pellets will tend to increase it.
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That is true if we compare equal velocities for all 3 calibers…meaning the heavier, larger calibers are producing higher energy (FPE) than the smaller calibers, then the heavier pellets will penetrate more.

However it is not true for the scenario presented in the original post. Penetration is proportional to momentum divided by the pellet’s cross-sectional area. If we run the numbers for the energy being held constant at 12fpe, the heavier pellets penetrate less.
 
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Donny with Baker Airguns posted a video where he compared a .25 caliber Impact shooting 33.95 grain JSB’s to a .30 caliber Impact shooting 44.75 JSB’s. Both Impacts were set to approximately 70 foot pounds. He used ballistic gelatin for the penetration tests, one test was the gelatin only, the other test had a piece of plywood attached to the gelatin to simulate a hard surface before the pellets entered the gelatin. He fired several shots with both calibers to get an average. In both tests the .25 caliber went further into the gelatin blocks. Donny also has a very good understanding of physics and explained the outcome and why the .25 penetrated deeper than the .30. I will put the link to the video below so anyone interested in watching won’t have to search for it.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/is-a-30-caliber-airgun-really-deadlier-


 
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the wider holes from the 22 and 25 will tend to reduce penetration but their heavier pellets will tend to increase it.
Click to expand...



That is true if we compare equal velocities for all 3 calibers…meaning the heavier, larger calibers are producing higher energy (FPE) than the smaller calibers, then the heavier pellets will penetrate more.

However it is not true for the scenario presented in the original post. Penetration is proportional to momentum divided by the pellet’s cross-sectional area. If we run the numbers for the energy being held constant at 12fpe, the heavier pellets penetrate less.
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You have a talent for explaining things in a detailed and easy to understand manner. Not just in this one comment but almost everything you post. +1 accuracy and thank you for all your contributions here.
 
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I remember watching a vid by a UK airgunner who is restricted to 12FPE.

Not sure of the details, but the footage showed how the rats were able to see the slow .25cal pellet and duck. Was quite a sight. If you're really interested and can't find it — I might have recorded the URL in my notes, send me a PM.

Matthias
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This guy? simon 6ppc. He does both long distance pest eradication with suppressed .223 OR, he takes out rats at 12ft/lbs with air rifles. Guy is insanely talented.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg6xF99FGf5b5Ae912dmR8g
 
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I remember watching a vid by a UK airgunner who is restricted to 12FPE.

Not sure of the details, but the footage showed how the rats were able to see the slow .25cal pellet and duck. Was quite a sight. If you're really interested and can't find it — I might have recorded the URL in my notes, send me a PM.

Matthias
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Is this the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wf_BPajUqE
 
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I just wouldn't have 3 rifles the same power level. Unless one was just so nice and shiny. I use each caliber for different purposes. Purpose being power levels for hunting. 



So I guess if I had 3 rifles in 177,22,25 at the same power levels, I'd rather have the 25 because depending on the airgun I could tune it according to whatever is appropriate to the pest. 



I certainly wouldn't prefer to use 177 on a coon in most every case. But if I could tune a 22 down to 15ft lbs and also to 50.ft lbs it might be a more versatile tool. 



I'm thinking I don't get the reason for the question though... 
 
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I just wouldn't have 3 rifles the same power level. Unless one was just so nice and shiny. I use each caliber for different purposes. Purpose being power levels for hunting. 



So I guess if I had 3 rifles in 177,22,25 at the same power levels, I'd rather have the 25 because depending on the airgun I could tune it according to whatever is appropriate to the pest. 



I certainly wouldn't prefer to use 177 on a coon in most every case. But if I could tune a 22 down to 15ft lbs and also to 50.ft lbs it might be a more versatile tool. 



I'm thinking I don't get the reason for the question though... 
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Why is the reason. Why do people automatically gravitate to a particular caliber for something. I've been watching a lot of pesting videos lately and one guy who uses a .22cal sub 12 ftlb rifle does very well. He is one of the few, if not the only one I've seen that uses a larger diameter caliber for pesting. Personally, I'm going to try .25cal at 533fps (16 ftlbs) this spring to see what it's like. Looking at the data in Strelok Pro and Chair Gun, it doesn't look too bad, but I want to see the real world results.
 
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I remember watching a vid by a UK airgunner who is restricted to 12FPE.

Not sure of the details, but the footage showed how the rats were able to see the slow .25cal pellet and duck. Was quite a sight.
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Matthias, the video that came to mind when I read your post was one where a UK group filmed a .30 cal downtuned to 12fpe shooting at rats and repeatedly having them spring out of the way, then switching back to a smaller, faster caliber and nailing them.. I looked for it again a couple of years ago and it seemed to be gone. Tonight I found a reference to it on GTA that includes a link to it
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106843
but it is now marked Private and therefore not viewable. What a shame, it was an interesting video.

[edit] I don't remember the distance they were shooting but in the interest of giving the rats a generous amount of time to dodge, I'm going to assume 20 yards. Besides, I think lobbing a 44.8gr JSB at less than 350fps would need to be kept close. Chairgun gives it a flight time of 178ms. The sound would arrive in 54ms so the rat would need to react in only 124ms to dodge it. That seems like superhero stuff.
 
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I forgot the Baker airguns video mentioned above. That's good enough for me. At the same energy, smaller caliber tends to penetrate further despite a little lighter pellet.

I also agree with the comments that assuming equal energy is not very realistic, at least in the U. S. where there are no limits. If I was limited to 12 fpe, I am pretty sure I would use a 177 for trajectory reasons and this answer also says penetration would be better. I did not like the penetration of my slightly higher power (stock) Prod in 22 so I am sure I would like a 12 fpe 22 even less. Worked for head shots but not for body shots. 25 would be even worse trajectory and penetration.
 
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I don’t have a .177 so can’t attest for that caliber. But .22 & .25 I’ve had about the same of pass throughs with both calibers at an average of 12fpe. The main difference I can tell is the sound of impact & the impact of the animal. I shot a gray squirrel last year sometime with my .25 Mini-Rod tuned to 12fpe. I hit him in the front shoulder & exit was opposite rear ham. That shot was from 26yrds, but the sound & the “jar” of the squirrel was incredible. Then the next squirrel was head shot @ 18yrds & no pass through, pellet stopped under the skin right behind the jaw. 


My .22 SynRod at the time pass throughs was pretty common with it shooting mostly CPDM’s. The greatest one I can remember was a rabbit at 46yrds head shot. Enter right under the eye & exited at the base of the neck. 


I think the best thing for non pass throughs highly depends on the weight of the pellet. But that’s just my opinion & I’m definitely ain’t no expert!! 
 
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Interesting. I think a lot about pass throughs is exactly where you hit the squirrel (or other animal). When my Prod was tuned as it came to me - 13-14 fpe - I did not get pass through on brain shots. But that was only two squirrels and they were pretty big ones. On two body shots they ran off so I don't know exactly what happened. I retuned to about 17-18 fpe and only lost one of the next 11. It was brain shot but flipped itself into a rotted area at the base of the tree where I could not reach it. Body shots typically only exited if they were straight side to side and did not hit heavy bones. This year, I've been using my 25 caliber P35 mostly because it's new and very quiet. 75 db so about 10 db less than my Prod. It loves 20 grain H&N FTTs and is tuned to shoot them at about 875 fps. So about 35 fpe. I've shot 14 now with it and 3 did not exit. None of the no-exit squirrels were very big, all under 1 lb. The first was a side to side shot where I crushed both front shoulders. Pellet was under the hide on the off side. The second was shot high up in my "killing tree" where it seemed to be looking over a drey for possible residency. I hit it in the front shoulder but did not hit the big shoulder bone and found the pellet on the off side under the skin along side of the rear leg. It actually exited the abdomen but traveled a bit under the skin. The last was hit in the shoulder and hit bone but then traveled to the spine where it hit more bone.

But if a 35 fpe 25 caliber doesn't always exit, how can a 22 at 1/3 that fpe exit fairly consistently? Being a smaller caliber helps penetration but still this seems different. I've shot squirrels as light as 4 ounces, however, and several in the 7-9 ounce range. Pass through on them would seem significantly easier than the 14-16 ounce ones. So maybe squirrel size helps to explain different observations?

In any event, I like to get enough penetration that side shots pass through only because it helps to ensure enough penetration on diagonal shots through their body or when I strike large leg bones on the way to the vitals. If they all passed through, I would worry more about them doing damage after they exit. If the FTTs did not occasionally fail to pass through, I would probably switch it to something that expanded. It consistently knocks them dead with the domed pellets it likes but I don't want to be slinging pellets around the neighborhood. I pass on shots where a pass through (or a miss) would go into other yards. I have the good fortune to back up to a large lake so I take high shots sometimes but only when the trajectory would be out over the lake. I don't think the velocity at exit is high enough for them to go more than a few hundred yards.
 
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I purchased a used Crosman 1701 pistol converted to a carbine that had been power upgraded prior. It has a silencer that looks like a TKO22.

Pretty sure it's shooting less than 12 fps. Have not chronied this one yet but at 35 yards average shooting distances drop isn't much.

I would have never thought in a million years that a Crosman brand gun could be this accurate. Not to mention shooting cheap Crosman pointed pellets from the 250 count tins from Wal Mart.

I have the opportunity to purchase a Crosman 1700 Silhouette pistol. I think I'm going to buy it. The trigger feels alot nicer than my 1701. It had been polished and the power is factory set and not modified.

I think it would be adequate shooting 500 fps for rats out to 20 or 25 yards with no pass through.

Getting 40 to 50 shots on a fill is a plus too.

Air Guns of Arizona sells the Crosman 1701 for $379 which is probably has best current price.

I wonder if the Challenger is just as accurate.
 
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Ed,

please, tell me more about lead hardness of JSB/Predator pellets!

I was under the impression that they were all made from the same lead mix. 🤔



➔ However, if you have a source of information or test results that proves this wrong, I gladly stand corrected. 👍🏼



Matthias
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Now you have me doubting myself! 😂

I do not have any testing about the hardness of the alloys per se, but I do have experience with them on game. I can also do another test into ballistics gel, but the penetration differences I am seeing may be due to the ammo design, and not the alloy hardness.

Please take a look at this video I made, but unfortunately, I did not test the JSB Exacts in this video. I have to melt down my ballistic block and redo some test when I have time, but I am more than certain the Exacts will almost make it through the entire block.

https://www.reddit.com/r/airgunhunting/comments/s4dioz/clear_ballistics_gel_intercut_with_ammo_use_on/
 
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