Can a PCP be more quiet than my current .22?

[MT3]

I have a .22 CZ rifle, heavy barrel with a Surefire suppressor (Tax stamp of course). I use Eley subsonic hollow point ammo which I find is very accurate, consistent and quiet to a point. I am using this rifle for squirrel control up to 150’, and while I’m not in a city, I have a bleeding heart neighbor who has threatened to call game and wildlife. This would constitute hunting out of season most of the year.

The semi-quiet report of my CZ still causes my neighbors dogs to go nuts and start barking, thusly alerting the neighbor. I’ve tried multiple subsonic ammo brands, and this one is the best. I have no experience with a PCP, so my basic question is can I find the right PCP setup that is quiet to the point my neighbors dogs wont go nuts? If I have the most quiet setup already, my search into PCP’s would be basically pointless.

 

[jland48]

CCI makes a 22LR round called quiet 22s. these are very accurate at the ranges discussed. They are 710fps and quieter out of a .22 rifle than our moderated pcp's. `The only draw back being the projectile. Not as safe as pellets in a neighborhood. Squirrels in my yard don't even flinch when my pellets hit my collector which is 3ft. from them. Glad I don't have any close neighbors to help me mind my own business.

 

[3Crows]

I have a .22 CZ rifle, heavy barrel with a Surefire suppressor (Tax stamp of course). I use Eley subsonic hollow point ammo which I find is very accurate, consistent and quiet to a point. I am using this rifle for squirrel control up to 150’, and while I’m not in a city, I have a bleeding heart neighbor who has threatened to call game and wildlife. This would constitute hunting out of season most of the year.

The semi-quiet report of my CZ still causes my neighbors dogs to go nuts and start barking, thusly alerting the neighbor. I’ve tried multiple subsonic ammo brands, and this one is the best. I have no experience with a PCP, so my basic question is can I find the right PCP setup that is quiet to the point my neighbors dogs wont go nuts? If I have the most quiet setup already, my search into PCP’s would be basically pointless.

Ely Subsonic is not as quiet as many PCP rifles like the Urban and Marauder (.22). That ammo is also not as quiet as CCI Quiet. It may be with a suppressor, cannot say. Any solid bullet ammo even including CCI segmented bullets is going to have more range and ricochet potential than a pellet even if the pellet is higher velocity and more muzzle energy due to pellets being softer (usually) at impact and having the BC of a Jeep Wrangler or worse a badminton birdie. I am not saying that a pellet will not ricochet or carry an awful long way if carelessly pointed.

 

[qball]

Legal discussions aside get a sub 12 fpe 177 rifle with a good moderator, impact noise will be much louder than the gun. It will take more skill to shoot past 40 yards but very doable and very quiet. All I hear is the clack of the action and the impact noise.

 

[karl_h]

A quick google search put the unsuppressed 22lr at 130-140 db and a suppressed 22 lr still 110-120 db. PCPs can definitely be quieter than that. I measure mine at around 85 db. But they still cause dogs several houses away to bark sometimes. That happens mostly when I am target shooting and firing quite a few shots. A single shot does not normally cause them to start up. My two sub 20 fpe guns (Benjamin Marauder Pistol and P35-177) are quieter than my 30-50 fpe airguns. 50 yards would be a really long shot for the sub 20 fpe guns, however. Drop would be more and the energy at impact would be low. Enough with really good placement I think but placement would be more difficult because of the distance. Lighter pellets also have even lower bc (and all pellets are really low) so wind drift will be more. For 50 yards I would want at least a 30 fpe airgun. My preference would be for a 25 caliber tuned to over 40 fpe. But those can still be down around 85 db. My P35-25 is tuned to almost 50 fpe and is still relatively quiet.

But the simple answer is PCPs can easily be quieter than a suppressed 22lr. I don't know about 22lr with really low power like CB caps. You could try those first. I think it will be pretty hard to get an airgun that can reliably hit a squirrel at 50 yards much quieter than 85db. But that is a lot lower than a suppressed 22lr with normal ammunition.

What Scott (Motorhead) said is also true. The impact of the pellet will be around 85 db (that is what I measure for impacting paper targets on my target trap) so even if you get the gun lower you will still have that. On squirrels it seems to me that some impacts are louder than others. Probably depends on exactly where they are hit. Loud ones might be 90 db.

not to be argumentative, but comparing impulse db numbers of a 22lr obtained with many thoussands of dollars of equipment meant to capture it, vs what I can only assume is a phone app you use has no bearing on reality at all. If you measured your pcp with the same equipment that reports 130-140 db on a 22 pb rifle, your pcp that your phone says 85db would more than likely be 110 db at least,

 

[karl_h]

As cold as it was today, I had an opportunity to shoot a Marauder .25 tuned to about 52 fpe and my pre-War Remington single shot Target Master with CCI Quiet Segmented. I chose the Target Master because it is accurate and the long barrel helps with noise. I find it to be a draw as to noise level between the two. I was shooting the Marauder with a "noise thing" and the Remington is an old timey non-threaded .22 rifle.
CCI Auto Quiet is louder and will cycle a 1022, most of the noise is the bolt cycling and this with a 16.5 inch barrel, also non suppressed.

There is another CCI .22 round that is interesting, especially if one has a legal suppresor. And it is CCI Suppressor ammo. It is 970 fps with a 45 grain hollow point. Slower than Subsonic and slower than Standard Velocity CCI. It cycles the 1022 and also great from my other several .22 rifles.

I've shot every marketed as sub-sonic 22lr ammo out of my suppressed savage rifle and AR, most aren't worth buying with ES of over 100fps and poor accuracy, some very much over that. The absolute best I ever used is no longer available, it was a winchester 45gr load imported from Australia, it is not made any longer. The quiet 22's that CCI sells with 40gr bullets and FPS around 700 will not hit the broad side of a barn past 20 yards with the vast majority of 22 rifles, looks like a shotgun pattern, best ever group I got was around 8" at 50 yards, average was well over that. It is simple too heavy/long of a bullet to shoot at that velocity in a standard twist rate of 1:16, and is just barely "better" with a twist rate of 1:12(I have a couple match barrels in that twist) I haven't tried the 22 Long that cci makes with the 29gr bullet because I never found it in stock when I was testing, that bullet may be short enough at 700 fps or so to stabilize and shoot well enough in standard bolt action 22, I don't know. I just looked and it is currently easy to buy, making an order for midway to test it out myself.

 

[3Crows]

I never said CCI Quiet was match grade but I have not had difficulty getting decent groups sufficient for squirrels out to 40 and 50 yards which would satisfy the OPs 150 feet requirement to which I responded. A 30 yard target, CCI Quiet upper left:



And indeed, the .25 Benjamin MRod at 40 yards is more accurate with JSB 34 grain pellets than CCI Quiet, I agree:



All are five shot groups and are typical. I would like to see the OP get a PCP but there is a lot of learning curve and equipment curve to support a PCP that he might not need to off a few squirrels. But PCPs are a lot of fun offsetting!

Edit to add, in defense of the new 392, it had the paint in the barrel issue which was easy to cure with a Q-Tip and some MPK. It groups as good as the old 392 now.

 

[Florida_Man]

50 yards is the bread and butter for PCP. I wouldn’t even pull out my PB. I like the safest option.

Don’t fall into the slug rabbit hole. Shoot pellets and enjoy.

For a suggestion, Daystate Huntsman Revere. It’s buy and shoot. 5 year warranty you’ll probably never have to use.

Daystate Huntsman Revere Regulated .22: Airguns of Arizona

 

[JimD]

karl_h, do you have a source for your assertion that my airguns are really 110db? I have measured with both a phone app and an inexpensive meter which is not now working. So I can't claim I used expensive gear but I don't know how your opinion would be more accurate.

I remain pretty confident it will not be difficult to get a PCP quieter than a suppressed 22lr shooting supersonic ammo.

 

[steve123]

The one suppressed 22rf bolt rifle a friend had that was SUPER quiet had a integral fully shrouded barrel, probably lots of baffles in it. I remember it being almost silent with standard velocity ammo and more so than even the 17 cal low powered pcp's I've been around. Yeah I was surprised by that

He said he snuck up over a berm and shot 3 coyotes at a little over 100Y with it before the rest of them figured out something was going wrong and then they skedaddled. That's a quiet gun!

Pcp inside 50Y I'd go for 17 cal repeater, maybe 17-18 fpe and with a top rated moderator.

 

[Trucker3573]

Seems a pcp certainly is going to be quieter. Your neighbors are probably going to still call on you if they see you doing this. If you are caught hunting a game animal out of season it will probably be a large fine and loss of hunting privileges of any kind for several years. Yes as some members have mentioned they need to be thinned and blah blah but the law is the law and the consequences can be worse than any squirrel. Really look into your local regulations. I know here it is also illegal to discharge a weapon within 450 or 500 ft of a dwelling without written permission. Just something else to think about if your neighbors are close. The list of infractions could grow if the law shows up.

 

[Sawney Bean]

The quietest PCP I have owned was my Air Arms S410E before I regulated it. Its power band was best right around 150 bar, but if I really wanted it to shoot quietly I would charge it to 200 bar. It lost 100 fps or more when I did that, but the actual report was mousefart quiet. The ping of the valve was louder than the report.

Regulated, it’s still a very quiet rifle, but not whisper quiet the way it was before with a big charge in it. Maybe if I add a can to it in the future.

I’m not saying they don’t exist, but I’ve never seen a rimfire that could match it for quietness.

One other thing I will say regarding airguns and noise, if you want a truly quiet PCP you should avoid any of the hammerless semi-autos. With those much of the noise comes from the action and unlike the thud made by the action of a springer they they produce a blast that is distinctly gunlike. They can be made backyard friendly in that they are no noisier than someone banging around with a hammer, but if you have an obnoxious Karen next door that hates guns they will likely still recognize the sound as some sort of gunfire.

 

[karl_h]

karl_h, do you have a source for your assertion that my airguns are really 110db? I have measured with both a phone app and an inexpensive meter which is not now working. So I can't claim I used expensive gear but I don't know how your opinion would be more accurate.

I remain pretty confident it will not be difficult to get a PCP quieter than a suppressed 22lr shooting supersonic ammo.

Somewhere there is a long list of springers and pcp's that were tested with real equipment, I don't remember where it is. Along those lines this is on B.B. Pelletier's blog on pyramid: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/03/airgun-sound-level-measurement/ .

Further, I ran into someone with an older analog meter that was the initial military approved sound meter for firearm/artillery sound testing. It's calibration was out of date by a couple years, but it was showing expected results for the PB's we were firing. I had my uragan compact .22 with me, tuned just over 20 ft-lbs, The shroud on it is baffled extending several inches past the muzzle, and the extended moderator was on it. It measured 112 db average for several shots (don't remember how many) one meter to left of muzzle.

I won't get dragged into this conversation, everyone believes what they want.

edited: I forgot to add, of course most any non big bore pcp with any moderator/bare shroud even will be quieter than a supersonic 22 pb. what does that have to do with anything.... red herring.

 

[JimD]

Karl, thanks for the reference. B. B. Pelletier has some views I think are kind of unique on sound moderation but I don't think he is lying about the measurements (I am working from memory but I think B. B. is the writer that won't use a detachable moderator out of fear of a three letter agency). I messed up saying "supersonic", the OP was talking about subsonic ammo with a moderator. That would be closer but my guess is a moderated non-big bore airgun would still be quieter.

 

[3Crows]

Can anyone suggest a good sound meter that is available and reasonalby priced that can give ball park numbers? I have a life long deficit, use hearing aids and have some tinnitus from exposure to machinery, guns, airplanes, motorcycles and life in general. I would like to get some reference numbers not only for guns and air rifles but other nosie producers as well.

 

[JimD]

I use a phone app called "Sound Meter" now. For years I used a radio shack one that no longer works then I used an inexpensive one from Amazon. It stopped giving readings which made sense so I switched to the phone app. For awhile I was having regular conversations with "subscriber" and others on moderator designs for P35s and Stoeger bullsharks. Another participant had the ability to take recordings of the sound sampling at a high rate to get more characteristics of the sounds as well as what is undoubtedly a better indication of the level of sound. I decided my meter was not working when my measurements of the same or similar moderators did not match the presumably "better" measurements.

There are several phone apps named "Sound Meter". The one I use has a white face meter on the startup icon. I tried several before selecting this one. The others did not seem to work well at all. It will provide a "peak" reading but I don't know it's sampling rate. To some degree I think sound measurements are like velocity measurements. Often the difference is the most important, the absolute reading not-so-much. Is option 1 moderator quieter than option 2? About how much quieter is one PCP versus another. As long as you agree that the difference is the most important thing I think a decent phone app is definitely worth a try.

 

[JimD]

If you are worried about your hearing, being inexpensively quiet is an advantage of P35s and the very similar Stoeger bullsharks. They have a shroud that can be slid forward to make space for a printed moderator or a "hair curler mod". The Stoeger has a barrel 40mm longer which takes up some space in the shroud but it has a end cap for the shroud with threads for a moderator. If you want to use an in shroud moderator the P35 is probably a better choice. I am confident these guns are quiet enough they are not damaging my hearing. I've shot pbs most of my life and these airguns are much more quiet. Quieter than my Prod and Avenger too. Quieter than the Avenger with a Tanto added. The 177 is the quietest (but makes the least power). I think it may be below 80 db at it's current tune.