Can we see some honest opinions

[bigHUN]

I like to shoot 100 M target rings with my Impact MK2 which I am considering outperforms the current M3 stock rifle with all of these my internal tweaking and upgrades. Not saying exterior cosmetics but the tuning capabilities and performance.

Whenever I am tuning I usually shoot five groups in a 5x5 target paper (at 100 M) and basing my decisions from there, and almost a full tin in a session.

Using a one piece rest or a front tripod with rear rest, no bipods and no bags where a user can induce more/less errors.
I have three .25x700 and two .25x600 liners, and with widely available off the shelf pellets (JSB 34gn MK1's and MK2's).

The average group size with pellets is about 1.5 MOA @ 100, yes there are a lot of MOA as well but I don't like to talk about best case scenario, lets talk average out of per say 125 shots per paper. With slugs I have not seen evidence so far those can outperform the pellets up to 100.

Watching these threads about custom built swaging dies both pellets and slugs and wondering about cost to performance ratios.

Anybody can share a honest story that the DIY (custom built) pellets or slugs can outperform the POI ?

From my engineering tinkering perspective I feel that the current mainstream pellets shapes are not designed to be shot @ 100 ??? be that a .25 or .22 ...

I am asking this question out of my frustration and not to offend any placebo opinions.

 

[thomasair]

N50 at 100 “In The Rings” Slug Challenge

Now that the weather is starting to break…I thought maybe some people would like to play something different as far as bench shooting goes. The target used will be the N50 shot at 100y using slugs on air or 22LR if you like. Below is a printable portion of the N50 on standard 8 1/2 x 11...

www.airgunnation.com

Have you looked here at all?

I posted 6 consecutive 25 shot groups with slugs yesterday.

Mike

 

[thomasair]

Here is 35 consecutive 4 shot groups at 100y...although it's a different slug than the groups I posted yesterday.

1/2 moa average.

Mike

 

[steve123]

I think one has to have a huge amount of pellets down barrels at longer distances to somewhat realize the various wind affects going on downrange, this while using flags, to be able to place a pellet near exactly where they want it almost every shot.

The above doesn't even take into account having consistent pellets with a gun of a precise tune capable of achieving winning benchrest scores.

Me, nope, using pellets it's too frustrating to go there anymore. At 100Y I can have one 5 shot group touching then the next group can be 2.5 inches and that is in light wind conditions. The truth is it becomes hard work figuring it all out and somewhere along the line the fun was lost for me.

I've literally had groups 7 inches wide in 6-11 mph switching winds at 100Y with my Thomas HPX but only 1" vertical. This was without flags when practicing for EFT matches but it shows how much a heavy pellet blows when one gets caught in a switch. With my slug gun it would have been 2" wide. 22rf target rifle a hair more than 2" using my slug gun and a centerfire target rifle sub 1." That's with little practice.

 

[thomasair]

Here's a link to a scientific study as to why my 25 shot groups averaged .96 moa and my 4 shot groups averaged about half that.

Group Size Analysis

 

[bigHUN]

... Have you looked here at all? ...

I am well aware of your machine and my machine also tuning skill are far away from anything comparable...
about reading wind and the elements - don't even ask me

Here's a link to a scientific study as to why my 25 shot groups averaged .96 moa and my 4 shot groups averaged about half that.

 

[bigHUN]

I want to be honest with these my failing attempts to tune for perfect...or at least much better
Last summer season I replaced the 52cc Plenum (kit) with a bigger 72cc Plenum (kit with Power Block) on my MK2 Impact. A half a year and maybe a thousand $ on pellets/slugs later I started realizing this was a mistake.
I never could get back to a clean muzzle effects no matter I swap three .25x700 liners and two .25x600 liners. Which I just swap this week from 700 length to 600 looking for source of the issue if possibly in harmonics.... next I can try a .22x600 for 100M if that doesn't work better I am going back to 52cc first surgery time....

 

[thomasair]

As far as pellets go...I don't think you are going to tune your way to the accuracy you want at 100m. It's deeper than that... especially with the 22 monsters.

100m/y pellet shooting comps are kinda dumb. Seeing who can do the best with the worst tool for the job doesn't make much sense.

I wish I had some insane money so I could put on a big stakes BB gun match every year at 50y. It would be comical to watch people get super serious about something stupid because of the money.

The 30 caliber aea 50gr are miles easier at 100.

Mike

 

[delooper]

I want to be honest with these my failing attempts to tune for perfect...or at least much better
Last summer season I replaced the 52cc Plenum (kit) with a bigger 72cc Plenum (kit with Power Block) on my MK2 Impact. A half a year and maybe a thousand $ on pellets/slugs later I started realizing this was a mistake.
I never could get back to a clean muzzle effects no matter I swap three .25x700 liners and two .25x600 liners. Which I just swap this week from 700 length to 600 looking for source of the issue if possibly in harmonics.... next I can try a .22x600 for 100M if that doesn't work better I am going back to 52cc first surgery time....

The easy way to check for harmonic issues would be to strap weights to your barrel, rather than change the barrel.

 

[bigHUN]

I think that I have a Valve - Dwell control issue with the large 72cc Plenum. The 72cc is more likely meant for .30 and larger and heavier.
Next time internal surgery I will replace the Plenum (tube only),
also I think last time I set the C1 for 6.5mm, if any wear on hammer nose plastic insert the Valve is not opening enough to control it properly (I would not be surprised after many K shots).

delooper, yes I agree but I wanted to try these shorter x600 liners as well to compare x600 vs x700.

Btw, I failed to mention, I have no alarming issues @ 50. It is just s stubborn me wanna make it work for 100 .... smily or not

 

[JaceSpace1369]

I think that I have a Valve - Dwell control issue with the large 72cc Plenum. The 72cc is more likely meant for .30 and larger and heavier.
Next time internal surgery I will replace the Plenum (tube only),
also I think last time I set the C1 for 6.5mm, if any wear on hammer nose plastic insert the Valve is not opening enough to control it properly (I would not be surprised after many K shots).

delooper, yes I agree but I wanted to try these shorter x600 liners as well to compare x600 vs x700.

Btw, I failed to mention, I have no alarming issues @ 50. It is just s stubborn me wanna make it work for 100 .... smily or not

As far as I know from reading, experience, and others experience. .25 is a finicky caliber to shoot slugs out of in FX platforms, primarily the Impact barrels. The 72cc is extremely helpful in the shorter barrel lengths, and with the increase of barrel length the return on investment decreases. I had an Fx impact mk2 that I originally bought as a compact. Gutted it to be like an m3 interanally with the power block, power wheel plenum. It would shoot just about anything I fed it slug wise. It had it's preferences, particularly more with the shorter barrel. That changed when I put the 700mm heavy twist liner. It would eat just about everything and shoot it really well. 30gr javelin slugs going at for 64fpe I could easily hit my mark all the way to 220 yards. If the wind was kicking up I would need several shots but it was a sub moa gun all day. That goes for both .22 and .30

 

[Franklink]

I like to shoot 100 M target rings....

.....Whenever I am tuning I usually shoot five groups in a 5x5 target paper (at 100 M) and basing my decisions from there, and almost a full tin in a session......

From my engineering tinkering perspective I feel that the current mainstream pellets shapes are not designed to be shot @ 100 ??? be that a .25 or .22 ...

I was one of the biggest critics of .22 Monster RDs, in regards to their 100yard performance. Over 5-6years of trying, I just couldn't get them to shoot acceptably, from lots of guns and lots of barrels. 6-8 months ago I was so disgusted with the .22 Monster RD that I sold 95% of my supply, at nearly give-away prices.

Then I stumbled upon a barrel that will actually shoot them well.

This was yesterday morning. Not really an exceptional example either, as it'll do this in decent conditions pretty often.

I'm pointing at the one shot that is about the worst flyer I see from this barrel. These pellets were straight from the tin, unsorted, unweighed. And I only shot the one card yesterday so this isn't cherry picking. The MRDs shot are from around 2020-2021, and this same batch would produce all too frequent flyers from other barrels that I tried.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

I was one of the biggest critics of .22 Monster RDs, in regards to their 100yard performance. Over 5-6years of trying, I just couldn't get them to shoot acceptably, from lots of guns and lots of barrels. 6-8 months ago I was so disgusted with the .22 Monster RD that I sold 95% of my supply, at nearly give-away prices.

Then I stumbled upon a barrel that will actually shoot them well.

This was yesterday morning. Not really an exceptional example either, as it'll do this in decent conditions pretty often.
View attachment 477925

I'm pointing at the one shot that is about the worst flyer I see from this barrel. These pellets were straight from the tin, unsorted, unweighed. And I only shot the one card yesterday so this isn't cherry picking. The MRDs shot are from around 2020-2021, and this same batch would produce all too frequent flyers from other barrels that I tried.

You should give the AEA 25.39gr a try, I highly doubt they will disappoint you.
Not trying to deviate this post from the original topic.

 

[Franklink]

You should give the AEA 25.39gr a try, I highly doubt they will disappoint you.
Not trying to deviate this post from the original topic.

Tried some of the JTS 25.4s from a couple of the previous barrels and had overall bigger groups from them then from the JSB.

If it wasn't for the high antinomy content and screwing up a good thing, I'd try them from this current barrel.

Jury seems to still be out but have heard various folks claim the JTS and AEA are potentially the same manufacturer.

 

[bigHUN]

As I asked in OP "the custom pellet molds or swagging dies" produce any better performers then the widely available off the shelf pellets? Or just an another extra hobby to kill the time with?
Speculating only that those custom pellet shapes just a clone of an any existing mass production....what else could be different?

 

[JaceSpace1369]

As I asked in OP "the custom pellet molds or swagging dies" produce any better performers then the widely available off the shelf pellets? Or just an another extra hobby to kill the time with?
Speculating only that those custom pellet shapes just a clone of an any existing mass production....what else could be different?

The thing is there is no one size fits all. The slugs could be perfect, but your barrel may not like them. If you have your own custom die or pellet mold you control the process of making them your ammo, even so it's a matter or seeing what works on your gun.

 

[HogKiller]

Tried some of the JTS 25.4s from a couple of the previous barrels and had overall bigger groups from them then from the JSB.

If it wasn't for the high antinomy content and screwing up a good thing, I'd try them from this current barrel.

Jury seems to still be out but have heard various folks claim the JTS and AEA are potentially the same manufacturer.

Oh heck, I'll buy a tin of JTS .22 18gr and test them against my beloved AEA's. I've already don't that with JSB's and the AEA's were a touch better at 30 yards.

 

[Vetmx]

@bigHUN, I have known you, well forum known you for quite a few years. I know where you are on the knowledge curve with airguns. IMO, you may have extracted the most out of a .25. I’m a .25 guy also. I have called it the bastard caliber for years. It’s a great caliber but we have to work extra hard when we want to squeeze the last little bit out of it. If you are a dedicated 100 yard guy with pellets, it might be time to jump to a .30. If you want to stay .25 then you might, if you haven’t already, have a real barrel machined for your Impact.

I have two different barrels on two of my .25 Impacts that when I used the same barrel on other .25’s, they shot pellets crazy good out to 115 yards. I just never tested sorted 33.95’s out of the ones on my Impacts. Even then, I don’t know if they could beat your 1.5” average. Maybe in your hands and with diehard dedication for a 33.95 tune, they could.

 

[Franklink]

As I asked in OP "the custom pellet molds or swagging dies" produce any better performers then the widely available off the shelf pellets? Or just an another extra hobby to kill the time with?
Speculating only that those custom pellet shapes just a clone of an any existing mass production....what else could be different?

Well you said a lot in the OP, but this clarification helps.

Couple years ago I bought an NOE mold for .22, called their "Hunter" mold. When using the deepest skirt pins it throws pellets in the 19.6-19.9grain range, with a meplat. VERY similar shape to a JSB .22/18.13 so not necessarily a great 100 yard option.....tested those cast pellets in quite a few barrels, mostly out to 50-60 yards. Most of them didn't shoot very well, could be used for Hunting I suppose, but not target shooting. Other than from one barrel, they didnt shoot well enough at 50-60 yards to even bother with 100 yards. Anyway, NOE also makes a mold for 24grain .22s that I've been intrigued by for awhile. I image they're quite similar to a JSB 25.4. The spec sheet lists a pretty high estimated BC, high enough to interest me, but with how the lighter version shot for me, I've never "pulled the trigger" to order the mold for the heavier.

Would love to hear from anybody who has tried this .22/24grain mold out to 100 yards.

 

[bigHUN]

...IMO, you may have extracted the most out of a .25...it might be time to jump to a .30. ...

I think you are right
Only one Impact but a lot of barrels/liners collected in .22 and .25 but no .30 and cannot justify that expense to collect the entire kit again.
Next liner cleaning I will swap to .22 and try the slugs out of the same gun, if that doesn't work out well I will dedicate that MK2 to 50M only.