Carbin fiber bottles
- Thread starter Jamorello
- Start date
What are you looking for? There are no domestic CF gun bottles that I know of, Alsafe set parameters that are used for making all the CF bottles I have seen overseas with Alsafe and Tuxing nearly all the bottles for pcp manufacturers.
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I would be pissed if someone showed up next to me with a cheap Chinese bottle that was never hydro tested. Will they have a hydro test?
While it’s possible that good quality bottles are coming from China, the quality control for Chinese made goods is only as good as you prove it to be. It’s entirely possible that they’re dumping off seconds or rejects. Or that they’re junk knockoffs of a Chinese brand that makes quality parts. I’ve dealt with too many Chinese junk parts in my work to overlook this. The Chinese government all but encourages this sort of thing for export goods.
David
While it’s possible that good quality bottles are coming from China, the quality control for Chinese made goods is only as good as you prove it to be. It’s entirely possible that they’re dumping off seconds or rejects. Or that they’re junk knockoffs of a Chinese brand that makes quality parts. I’ve dealt with too many Chinese junk parts in my work to overlook this. The Chinese government all but encourages this sort of thing for export goods.
David
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Well as the bottles have various Certifications, i would assume this include testing.
My Chinese bottle also have the same test pressure as a Korean mande original FX bottle have.
But yeah once those certificates have been acquired they could skimp on QC
I can tell you that just CUZ a company are ISO 9001 certified do not mean they are flaw less or each and every of their work force are stellar flawless ppl
I for instance budged a whole series of Axles for MRI scanners on my grinding machine ( immensely embarrassing but actually not entirely mu fault )
And a while later i found errors on a whole series from a CNC lathe, unfortunately after i had also been grinding and cut a grove in those so literally 3 machines work for 2 days each process or so strait into the trash.
Of course none of that made it out the door of the company.
My new 9 L Acecare bottle sitting right behind me with 300 BAR in it, do absolutely not worry me, well not more than the 12 L Worthington 300 BAR bottle to my Right or the now 15 year old 200 BAR bottle that have never been tested so far ( also in that time 200 BAR bottle just filled 5 maybe 6 times )
You will be right to be apprehensive and on top of things, just like you should be being in or near traffic on a street, but you should not be fearful that would just ruin your life and maybe if you are a car driver make you drive at 50 in a 80 zone, which would not make you any friends among the other motorists, even if on almost all streets there is no minimum speed and you are 100 % entitled to drive a speed you feel safe at.
But ! Yes i see many things happening in China that are extremely worrying, but i do not loose sleep over that even if i lie in bed every day on average 7-8-9 hours before i fall asleep.
I do think the second a guy or two in here post that they gotten blown up by their Hung Fat bottle, everyone in here would for sure not buy those again and probably ditch any Hung Fat bottle they might have.
But if i post that i gotten every door and window in my apartment blown out by my 15 year old not inspected bottle, well i suppose people would just laugh their ass off at this stupid old Dane.
My Chinese bottle also have the same test pressure as a Korean mande original FX bottle have.
But yeah once those certificates have been acquired they could skimp on QC
I can tell you that just CUZ a company are ISO 9001 certified do not mean they are flaw less or each and every of their work force are stellar flawless ppl
I for instance budged a whole series of Axles for MRI scanners on my grinding machine ( immensely embarrassing but actually not entirely mu fault )
And a while later i found errors on a whole series from a CNC lathe, unfortunately after i had also been grinding and cut a grove in those so literally 3 machines work for 2 days each process or so strait into the trash.
Of course none of that made it out the door of the company.
My new 9 L Acecare bottle sitting right behind me with 300 BAR in it, do absolutely not worry me, well not more than the 12 L Worthington 300 BAR bottle to my Right or the now 15 year old 200 BAR bottle that have never been tested so far ( also in that time 200 BAR bottle just filled 5 maybe 6 times )
You will be right to be apprehensive and on top of things, just like you should be being in or near traffic on a street, but you should not be fearful that would just ruin your life and maybe if you are a car driver make you drive at 50 in a 80 zone, which would not make you any friends among the other motorists, even if on almost all streets there is no minimum speed and you are 100 % entitled to drive a speed you feel safe at.
But ! Yes i see many things happening in China that are extremely worrying, but i do not loose sleep over that even if i lie in bed every day on average 7-8-9 hours before i fall asleep.
I do think the second a guy or two in here post that they gotten blown up by their Hung Fat bottle, everyone in here would for sure not buy those again and probably ditch any Hung Fat bottle they might have.
But if i post that i gotten every door and window in my apartment blown out by my 15 year old not inspected bottle, well i suppose people would just laugh their ass off at this stupid old Dane.
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Please, provide a link to any .22L, 43L, .5L carbon fiber tank standard a standard pcp neck/threading not made in China or Korea.
I'll wait...
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You missed the point entirely. What matters is whether a reputable non-Chinese company tested and certified it.
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What make me wonder about many things is, something entirely made by a machine, as a CF bottle pretty much are, why move the production of those to a far away country / why cant they ba made at the same price in this country.
LEGO moved their production out many years ago, why i have no idea, maybe outside of the higher energy costs here and of course wages.
But i visited LEGO many years ago, and not a whole lot of PPL working there, plastic blocks just whizzing around in automated factory.
Another thing i think maybe, makes here are so used to make something for say 10 dollars and being able to sell it for at the very least 20 dollars, and then the retailer add his 10 dollars to it too, and BOM you pay up sucker.
LEGO moved their production out many years ago, why i have no idea, maybe outside of the higher energy costs here and of course wages.
But i visited LEGO many years ago, and not a whole lot of PPL working there, plastic blocks just whizzing around in automated factory.
Another thing i think maybe, makes here are so used to make something for say 10 dollars and being able to sell it for at the very least 20 dollars, and then the retailer add his 10 dollars to it too, and BOM you pay up sucker.
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Who cares about the manufactur? As long as testing is done and the bottle is certified, it's the owners responsibility to do follow-ups.
IPhones are made in China, do you own one?
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If my iPhone fails nobody gets injured or killed.
And I don’t get sued from having an air tank that doesn’t meet DOT requirements.
David
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The biggest concern I have is people bringing in carbon fiber bottles for hydro testing.
The USN spent millions and a decade of research to battle the DOT and other AHJ's on stopping this destructive form of testing and doubling the life of CF bottles.
The USN has moved to ultrasonic testing which is much more sensitive, faster and does not break fibers like hydro testing does.
Will CE certifications be accepted by the mom & pop SCUBA fillers? Probably not, the US crowd likes UL but as long as they are CE certified, they are "reputable".
The USN spent millions and a decade of research to battle the DOT and other AHJ's on stopping this destructive form of testing and doubling the life of CF bottles.
The USN has moved to ultrasonic testing which is much more sensitive, faster and does not break fibers like hydro testing does.
Will CE certifications be accepted by the mom & pop SCUBA fillers? Probably not, the US crowd likes UL but as long as they are CE certified, they are "reputable".
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iPhone don't explode ..... that often....inches from your face....ok, cancel that one....There is a wee touch more to making a CF bottle than most can appreciate, good CF is a start along with very good resin.....ultrasonic testing....and a slew of other thing's I've forgotten about. I love Volvos, but i absolutely refuse to buy one from China now. My wife bought a VERY, as in are you out of your mind expensive sewing machine, very well known European brand, now made in China, it took 3 of the darn things to get one that worked, she just bought a really cool CNC Cutter, again well known company, but made in China...DOA.... Nope I don't trust anything from China. Oh rats, I forgot, I've got a Tuxing....forget all of the above.
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I've been happy with Acecare tanks. Have owned a few of them and had no issues. Purchased off of ebay - sometimes they have US stock and sometimes shipped from China.
From everything I have read over the years (and I am far from an expert) the CE certification is just a good, if not a better cert, than DOT. DOT has no relevance if you are filling tanks yourself.
From everything I have read over the years (and I am far from an expert) the CE certification is just a good, if not a better cert, than DOT. DOT has no relevance if you are filling tanks yourself.
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Again, I would verify or repeat the testing on a pressure vessel coming directly from China.
I’m not a fan of DOT retesting and expiration, especially for cylinders that are treated with great care and remain in perfect physical condition. Which method of proof testing is semantic to this. What matters is whether a proven inspection method has actually happened for each cylinder.
The issue is Chinese companies are not in the EU or USA and they face no penalties for falsifying their certs. I’ve worked with Chinese and other best cost country suppliers and the issue is a combination of ignorance and/or cheating as a part of the supply chain culture. Buying directly from a Chinese source puts you 100% exposed to whatever corners they cut, intentionally or not. Defending against inferior and misrepresented imported components is a big part of my job. So playing the ‘haha funny you old man’ card is not going to work. It’s people like me that have kept dumb and cheap people from blowing their balls off and that career path is quite secure. Maybe it even gives me some airgun spending money.
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A long long time ago in a different life...25 years or so, the company I was employed by was making CF centrifuge buckets, they were using ultrasound then. To my knowledge we didn't have many failures in the field, which....would have been less than stellar, but there was a reason there was a very heavy steel liner.
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… and keeping it and using it on your own property.
If you transport it filled within the US you are violating those regulations. I’ve not heard about anyone getting into trouble for it, but the issue does exist.
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Actually, if you are not in commerce, it has no relevance to you, same with propane, it's on the labels etc but reality is it does not apply to us. Also, it's not enforceable unless your in commerce.
You have to hunt for the exceptions but it's there.
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You have not seen lipo battery fires, those could leave a scar alright, also if you are not there burn down your house.
I never charge my phone unless i am there ( that happen when i drive my car ) or charge my RC batteris, which is done in my window sill so i can throw everything out if something happen. ( that have happened once though at my friends place which use the same RC battery charge procedure )
I dont even go to the toilet when i charge RC batteries, well at least not for #2.
But yeah there are of course differences in outcome of a failure to something, if a Popsicle fail it is not so bad ( broken stick ) unless the fail is the stick have been dipped in something really nasty.
I would not like a vanilla / nougat / strychnine Popsicle
A few weeks ago a move theater here had to pause all movies and alert PPL, as someone put some form of detergent on peoples pop corn instead of salt.
As this is Denmark, well no one got as far as eating their popcorn and the movie theater not seen a single lawsuit.
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