N/A Carbines have less power than full rifles?? 🤔

[JungleShooter]

➊
Do carbine versions of springers have less power than full length rifles?
About how much less in .22cal?


➋
Is it myth or real that carbines are easier for a shooter to deal with the hold sensitivity?


A recent thread on AGN made me wonder, but I didn't want to derail it.

Thanks,

Matthias

 

[pesty3782]

Most of the springer shooters in the worlds shot the TX200 HC in 177.....One of the reasons, when talking to them, is the pellet is out of the barrel before the second recoil starts. They told me it is easier to hold steady for competition. Now all these TX200's were shooting right around 10-11 FPE.

So in other words I didn't answer your question at all

Tony P.

 

[thammer]

In a springer I don't think a carbine is slower. PCP the shorter barrel typically reduces speed. A carbine of barrel cocked by the barrel is harder because of the shortened leverage but an AA TX200 for example is a short barrel and just fine. The lever coking makes it easy. I also agree it's less hold sensitive because the pellet is in the barrel for less time during the firing cycle.

 

[A.G.R]

There is a diminishing return for springers if power is the direction.. 13 to 16 being the swet zone. I’ve made many with 12 inch choked barrels but they are a bit snappier and usually a tad slower. Chokes give a bit of back pressure that is recoil but controlled

higher power guns 20+ ft lbs like longer barrels.

 

[MDriskill]

The classic Gerald Cardew book, The Airgun From Trigger to Target, is a fascinating read, with extensive instrumented testing on spring-piston airguns. They determined (for UK springers under 12 FPE anyhow...YMMV), that the pellet is done accelerating about 7 or 8 inches down the barrel. Lots of variables involved of course, but bottom line: don't lose sleep over power loss in your spring-piston carbine.

In any shootin' iron, anything that reduces shot time is good for reducing the dreaded "hold sensitivity." Doubly so for a springer's complex movement under recoil.

 

[A.G.R]

The classic Gerald Cardew book, The Airgun From Trigger to Target, is a fascinating read, with extensive instrumented testing on spring-piston airguns. They determined (for UK springers under 12 FPE anyhow...YMMV), that the pellet is done accelerating about 7 or 8 inches down the barrel. Lots of variables involved of course, but bottom line: don't lose sleep over power loss in your spring-piston carbine.

In any shootin' iron, anything that reduces shot time is good for reducing the dreaded "hold sensitivity." Doubly so for a springer's complex movement under recoil.

Well said. A fast miss is still a miss , many people get stuck on that extra 25 ft per second not realizing down range it means less than A 1/4 of an inch at 40 yards.

 

[rokonman]

I have always read the exact opposite that longer barrels Rob power in Springers. I have never owned two of the same gun in carbine and standard length versions to test. Now if we were talking PCP’s, that’s a Different story at least up into a point of diminishing return longer barrels, definitely produce more power in Pcps.

 

[boscoebrea]

Whatever the answer, it is not that simple. Balance is what is important. How do you get the right balance for what you want to achieve? For example,I can shoot my short-barreled pistols as well as my longer-barreled rifles.A shorter barrel can be better, but then look at the size of Ten-meter target rifles. Is it the length,, whatever the length is, the balance is more important. Balance can be weight distribution,or it can be the time the pellet leaves the barrel and the time the recoil can influence the outcome.I harp on balance a lot,it is because I am unstable

 

[kingfisher61]

This is from an article about it.

Yes, a longer barrel on an airgun generally contributes to a higher muzzle velocitybecause the compressed air has more time to accelerate the pellet as it travels through the barrel, resulting in a greater exit speed.

Key points about barrel length and airgun velocity:

• Increased acceleration time:
  A longer barrel provides more space for the air to push on the pellet, allowing for greater acceleration and higher velocity.
  
  
• Diminishing returns:
  While longer barrels increase velocity, there is a point where adding more length provides minimal additional benefit.
  
  
• Impact on accuracy:
  Besides velocity, a longer barrel can also contribute to improved accuracy by providing better pellet stabilization.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

• HOW BARREL LENGTH AFFECTS AIRGUN ACCURACY​

  By The Wolfman StorePublished On: 12 December 2023Categories: Air Gun
  When selecting an air rifle or air pistol for target practice or small game hunting, one key factor many shooters consider is ideal barrel length. But does barrel length truly impact downrange accuracy, and if so, how much does it matter?
  Understanding the interplay between barrel length and precision can help inform your equipment choices. We break down the key ways barrel length influences airgun accuracy, so you can determine the best size barrel for your shooting needs.
  

  1 – VELOCITY AND ENERGY DELIVERY​

  The most significant impact of longer airgun barrels is increased muzzle velocity and energy transfer. As pressurised air propels the pellet or BB down the barrel, more time to accelerate translates into higher exit speeds.
  Faster velocity produces a flatter trajectory since gravity has less time to influence the projectile’s arched flight path. This allows precise aim for longer range target engagement.
  

  2 – SIGHT RADIUS AMPLIFICATION​

  Longer barrels also increase sight radius, which is the distance between front and rear sights. This expands the sight picture for finer aiming precision. With a wider rear notch and front post separating further apart, any angular deviations while aiming get minimised for enhanced accuracy potential.
  This advantage truly comes into play at longer shooting distances where precision sight alignment is critical. If mostly engaging shorter range targets under 50 metres, a longer sight radius offers less noticeable improvement.
  

  3 – STIFFNESS & VIBRATIONS​

  Longer barrels tend to oscillate less during firing, making them potentially more accurate, while a shorter barrel has less surface area contacting the stock, allowing more flexing. This can degrade precision. Extending barrel length to 18 or 20 inches improves stiffness and dampens vibrations for excellent harmonic consistency.
  

  BARREL QUALITY AND PELLET MATCHING​

  While length plays a role, one of the most vital accuracy factors is barrel quality and pellet matching. Superior airgun barrels start with tight dimensional tolerances in bored diameter, straightness, and surface finish. Quality steel or stainless steel materials resist corrosion while maintaining smoothness. If the interior surface is damaged, corroded or excessively worn, more gas escapes around the sides of the pellet in flight, destabilising it.
  However, the most finely engineered barrel shoots poorly if not aligned to the sights and paired with pellets it “likes”. This synergy between pellet selection and barrel quality is why factors like ammo choice outweigh purely barrel length considerations.

 

[bustachip]

Powder burners yes it makes a difference. But I don't think it's any real benefit in a spring piston rifle. I would take the shorter barrel every time, because of shorter time pellet is in the barrel. You don't want much over 900fps anyway.

 

[boscoebrea]

To me it is almost a myth about length,oh ,were talking about barrel length.

 

[Silver Ace]

To me it is almost a myth about length,oh ,were talking about barrel length.

Carbines can be quite adequate. It’s all how you use them

 

[Just Zack 2]

I've chopped down the barrels on a few cheaper Crosman/Benji Nitro Piston rifles. At the time these could be had for $40 to $80 on sale. Didn't own a chronograph at the time to do a baseline test. The general consensus is these guns would make roughly 16FPE in .22 and 15FPE in .177 once broken in. Chopped one of each caliber (.177 & .22) down to about 9.25" or 23.5cm... After getting a chrony the .22cal made a hair over 15fpe and the .177cal made about 13fpe. The cocking effort was raised noticeably but wasn't unbearable for me. Others weren't fond of it though. I didn't shoot these guns a ton, maybe 400-ish shots through the .177 and half of that through the .22cal.

Eventually a new home was found for those Nitro Piston guns. The new owner reported the .177 was making ~15fpe over their chronograph. Don't know if the rifle needed more breaking in or if elevation change made a difference or the chronies are different or...

I also chopped a barrel of an .177 NP2 rifle down to 10" or so. These have a similar stroke but larger diameter piston (29mm vs 25mm)... Result was 10fpe. Don't know what happened, but that power plant had some issues going on. No chrono for baseline test. YMMV

 

[JungleShooter]

Thanks for your helpful answers. I appreciate it.

I'm sure some guys will be all over that article from The Wolfman Store.... ("longer barrels are more precise")....

Matthias

 

[rokonman]

This is from an article about it.

Yes, a longer barrel on an airgun generally contributes to a higher muzzle velocitybecause the compressed air has more time to accelerate the pellet as it travels through the barrel, resulting in a greater exit speed.

Key points about barrel length and airgun velocity:

• Increased acceleration time:
  A longer barrel provides more space for the air to push on the pellet, allowing for greater acceleration and higher velocity.
  
  
• Diminishing returns:
  While longer barrels increase velocity, there is a point where adding more length provides minimal additional benefit.
  
  
• Impact on accuracy:
  Besides velocity, a longer barrel can also contribute to improved accuracy by providing better pellet stabilization.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

• HOW BARREL LENGTH AFFECTS AIRGUN ACCURACY​

  By The Wolfman StorePublished On: 12 December 2023Categories: Air Gun
  When selecting an air rifle or air pistol for target practice or small game hunting, one key factor many shooters consider is ideal barrel length. But does barrel length truly impact downrange accuracy, and if so, how much does it matter?
  Understanding the interplay between barrel length and precision can help inform your equipment choices. We break down the key ways barrel length influences airgun accuracy, so you can determine the best size barrel for your shooting needs.
  

  1 – VELOCITY AND ENERGY DELIVERY​

  The most significant impact of longer airgun barrels is increased muzzle velocity and energy transfer. As pressurised air propels the pellet or BB down the barrel, more time to accelerate translates into higher exit speeds.
  Faster velocity produces a flatter trajectory since gravity has less time to influence the projectile’s arched flight path. This allows precise aim for longer range target engagement.
  

  2 – SIGHT RADIUS AMPLIFICATION​

  Longer barrels also increase sight radius, which is the distance between front and rear sights. This expands the sight picture for finer aiming precision. With a wider rear notch and front post separating further apart, any angular deviations while aiming get minimised for enhanced accuracy potential.
  This advantage truly comes into play at longer shooting distances where precision sight alignment is critical. If mostly engaging shorter range targets under 50 metres, a longer sight radius offers less noticeable improvement.
  

  3 – STIFFNESS & VIBRATIONS​

  Longer barrels tend to oscillate less during firing, making them potentially more accurate, while a shorter barrel has less surface area contacting the stock, allowing more flexing. This can degrade precision. Extending barrel length to 18 or 20 inches improves stiffness and dampens vibrations for excellent harmonic consistency.
  

  BARREL QUALITY AND PELLET MATCHING​

  While length plays a role, one of the most vital accuracy factors is barrel quality and pellet matching. Superior airgun barrels start with tight dimensional tolerances in bored diameter, straightness, and surface finish. Quality steel or stainless steel materials resist corrosion while maintaining smoothness. If the interior surface is damaged, corroded or excessively worn, more gas escapes around the sides of the pellet in flight, destabilising it.
  However, the most finely engineered barrel shoots poorly if not aligned to the sights and paired with pellets it “likes”. This synergy between pellet selection and barrel quality is why factors like ammo choice outweigh purely barrel length considerations.

I believe that article is referring to PCPs At least in reference to velocity. In regards to precision, Feinwerkbau 10 meter PCP rifles have carbine length inner barrels in much longer outer barrels for a couple of reasons, the shorter barrel gets the pellet out before the shooter has a chance to move and pull the shot while the long outer barrel allows the long sight radius needed. I think the well regarded TX200 proves short barrels are a benefit to spring power plants.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

It's not the size of the magicians wand that matters. It is the magic he performs with it.

A carbine length springer will shoot just as fast and be just as accurate as a full length springer if all other factors are equal. The pellet is at maximum velocity after less than a foot of travel.

A firearm is different. A longer barrel CAN produce more velocity/accuracy because powder speeds and volumes can be adjusted to utilize the extra barrel. I'm assuming this is also true with a PCP to some extent. But a springer gives you a set, limited amount of air to propel the projectile regardless of barrel length.

The quality of the barrel will make MUCH more difference than the length in accuracy. And speed is dictated by your power source and the ability to keep increasing pressure behind the pellet as it accelerates down the barrel. Swept volume and the speed of expanding compressed air are limitations that are met with a barrel a foot long on a spring gun.

Balance, recoil and sighting plane length are all valid comparisons. Speed and accuracy not so much.