Carbon Fiber Tank - Legal Question

[FunGun]

This post is not meant to ruffle any feathers on either side of this "thread" in the airgun nation forum. It is designed to make us consider our responsibilities as the experts in the airgun industry. 

Let's assume a young air-gunner is researching PCP airguns and Compressed air tanks. This young airgunner decides to follow the expert "advice" he found here on the forum. This advice would read something of the nature that it is "OK" to buy these CF tanks that are beyond Hydro and designed designated life span.

A few months later for some unknown reason this young air-gunner is killed by an exploding CF tank.

Do you think the fine members of this forum and the owner of this forum could be held responsible in any way for this accident?

I can say this with fact and personal experience. Just getting invited to the "legal party" can be a financial burden that most people can not bare. Regardless of guilt or level of responsibility the cost to defend the innocent can be as costly as being found guilty or responsible.

I personally don't think we should be advocating to do something that could be dangerous to others, especially in a written forum where your words last forever (maybe). Just my 2 cents. Have a great air-gunning day!

 

[Brian10956]

I think if it’s just amateurs giving advice your OK. But if a hydraulic engineer said it was ok he could be in trouble. It’s the same if you asked me what to take for a bad headache and I told you to take an aspirin and you had a stroke nothing should happen to me but if a Dr told you he should of known better to see you might be really sick.

 

[T3PRanch]

Information is either shared or withheld. Unless you were paid as a consultant then there should be no liability. If simple sharing of information can make a non professional liable then possibly ALL forums and social media should be shut down AND burn all the books / close the schools because without these avenues of enlightenment no one would have the knowledge to harm themselves! NOT! lol

Thurmond

 

[ncrary]

CF tanks can be tested and re-certified for an additional 15 years. Not sure of the cost. There was a thread on here last year about this.

 

[Hynzie]

now a days anything can and will happen

 

[Bruce54]

T3PRanch-
I agree whole heartedly! When I first got into PCP's I was surprised when I mentioned the use of aTKO to silence my Disco on a couple different forums and blogs it was as if I said nothing! It didn't take long to figure out that one should not discuss " silencers" in any public form so that we could avoid drawing attention by legal entities. That has changed now but I was disappointed that I was a "criminal" for trying to keep the neighbors happy.

 

[10x]

I'm not a lawyer....(consider this as my disclaimer and liable immunity)

I just bought an affordable tank that legally dies July 1,2018....so I have been reading/ researching this subject and the dangers of HPA, hydro testing, tank fill cycle testing, failure pressures etc....there is a lot of information here at AGN...

I am convinced that an American made cf tank without structural/ fiber damage is safe to use past it's legal life....the two tanks I have are numbered with DOT identities that qualify for the retesting program and certification for an additional 15 yrs of legal life.....

Each of us should assess the testing parameters for these tanks and decide for yourself what risk is acceptable....
After reading the burst pressures, and rediculous fill /empty cycles I believe the risk is actually no more than that of a new tank....
Taking the necessary care to insure that I am filling with dry air...I believe I can't stress the tank to cause it to burst with normal air gun purposed use....(crush damage, fire, dropping from heights, and high speed bullets are not normal airgun use)

Chinese non DOT numbered tanks, hoses, fittings etc I guess are user tested right here in the USA.....I'm shooter and not a tester.

 

[kingrude1]

Everyone should research the subject to their satisfaction then make an informed decision for themselves. If they only knew what the current rules are that weren't written for what we are doing with them, then they would only have one decision. Nobody is making anyone do anything, nor suggesting they do anything, they are simply giving more information on this and point out that there are other alternatives.

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Liability I personally don't care about but personally I couldn't take feeling responsible for anothers injury ( tho THEY should do all the research) so on this issue - others- I would always say use ONLY current inspected tanks!
I agree that if never abused scba's do last longer than 15 years ( and CAN be re certified at $300+ each) but, if one got say 1/2 teaspoon of water ( and what if the PH, or a mineral is in that water?) in some cases you can see the aluminum liner go bad in 12 months - based on my local Fire Departments experience- and the outside is FLAWLESS, it DOES happen.

They do need to be inspected , you can not tell what's what looking.

So many required inspections are BS but, some like these DOT inspections really do help we who could never properly inspect a tank live long and prosper.

Personally I like to shoot at events, an expired tank would be of no use there.
I purchased my scba with fill unit from a well know airgun dealer with current hydro and 12 years left for $300.00 shipped. I could have saved $200.00 , never been able to take it out with me, couldn't sleep well with family around an expired tank ..... .

New or not, if your "helping" someone safety first is always a great idea.


John

 

[Saltlake58]

Disclaimer - I'm no lawyer. This is my opinion.
I don't believe that the forum could legally be held liable. This is a discussion forum. There are people on the forums that claim to be Engineers. If that is true, they give bad advice, and they can be tracked down, they could be in hot water. Legally, if they dispense engineering advice and it's bad, that's a problem. That person could have their Engineering Card punched in a bad way. This is my opinion.

​The real problem using expired tanks, excluding the, again in my opinion, the foolishness of one thinking they know more than the agencies regulating tanks, and claiming it is all politics and government / manufacturer conspiracies, these things come to mind:

• ​No shop will fill the tank. It's not legal, meaning to be of any use, you've got to have your own compressor. Otherwise, it's just a big, bulky paper weight.
• I suspect most events won't even let you have the tank on site during a shoot for safety and their liability. If something went wrong and they knew an expired tank was being used, they'd be liable. They sure won't fill the tank for you, so again, you've got to have your own compressor.
• If it ruptured and you survived, which is doubtful, you'd be held liable for all the damage and injuries. If your estate had any assets, they'd go to pay damages and survivors bills.
• If something went wrong, you'd have the privilege of living the rest of your life knowing that because you wanted to save a couple bucks, you hurt and possibly killed a lot of people.

My wife and I are currently living with the results of someone else's stupidity. Someone thought it was safe to get only slightly loaded and drive. Cost my wife a month in the hospital, more broken bones than we can count, and her right leg was amputated. He was a stupid 19 year old, that now has the privilege of knowing the damage he caused. It can't be undone. So, you've got to ask how many people in this discussion are doing exactly the same thing. They know better and to save a couple bucks they put others lives at risk. And before anyone says Insurance will cover it, his insurance was over $200K short.

​Call me conservative, but being the recipient of the impact of those that know better than the experts, it does change one's perspective.