Is it a bad idea to store a carbon wrap tank in a hot car? My initial reaction is no problem since firefighters strap these things on their backs they must tolerate quite a bit of heat, right?
Carbon wrap tank stored in hot car
- Thread starter ztirffritz
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Personally, I don't do it. I'm not real sure, but I believe tank assemblies may have a burst disc. I happened to notice a couple of days ago when I took my Edgun out of the 70* shop, it was at 2500 psi. I had it on the bench in the shade at 90* plus and a while later I looked at it and was at almost 3000 psi. I'd at least wrap the tank up in a thick bath towel or something like that and out of direct sunlight.
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As nomobux noted: the real issue is pressure buildup. The epoxy will not be damaged by much higher temperatures than you will ever get in a car. But if you bring a tank that's already at full pressure at room temp, and heat it up from 70 to 120° F, which is very plausible in a car left in sun in southern US, then pressure will rise from 4500 to 5000 psi. Somebody should check - its the combined gas law from high school physics.
Its the same issue but in reverse when you get your tank filled. It warms up a lot & you leave with a 4500 fill. When you get home its cooled down, and you only have 4200 ...
Its the same issue but in reverse when you get your tank filled. It warms up a lot & you leave with a 4500 fill. When you get home its cooled down, and you only have 4200 ...
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I know about the expanding gasses, but I figured this tank belonged to the Phoenix FD. I'm pretty sure they're exposed to more than 120deg. More like 400+. At any rate, my car survived, as did the tank. I put it in the back, wrapped in a blanket.
I found this on the Luxfer manual:
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www.luxfercylinders.com/30/download/download
It is also important to take into consideration not only temperature, but also exposure time—both
of which are critical factors. Brief exposure to elevated temperatures may not damage a cylinder.
This is particularly relevant in the case of self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) cylinders
used by firefighters. Firefighters can wear composite SCBA cylinders with complete confidence
even though they are frequently exposed to high temperatures, because a firefighter is never
exposed long enough to excessive heat to affect cylinder properties. Even when wearing
protective equipment, a firefighter will feel sufficient discomfort from life-threatening heat to
pull back before the heat exposure could damage a cylinder. The exceptional safety record of
carbon composite cylinders in fire service over more than a decade clearly proves the durability
and reliability of these products. The main concern is with SCBA cylinders left in a fire or high-
heat environment for a prolonged period; such cylinders must be rejected.
*****************
So conclusion: I think it's probably best to not leave tanks in hot cars, especially when they're just filled to max capacity. There's a burst disk on the valve that should bleed off the pressure if it exceeds 5000 psi, so it won't blow up.
I found this on the Luxfer manual:
*************
www.luxfercylinders.com/30/download/download
It is also important to take into consideration not only temperature, but also exposure time—both
of which are critical factors. Brief exposure to elevated temperatures may not damage a cylinder.
This is particularly relevant in the case of self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) cylinders
used by firefighters. Firefighters can wear composite SCBA cylinders with complete confidence
even though they are frequently exposed to high temperatures, because a firefighter is never
exposed long enough to excessive heat to affect cylinder properties. Even when wearing
protective equipment, a firefighter will feel sufficient discomfort from life-threatening heat to
pull back before the heat exposure could damage a cylinder. The exceptional safety record of
carbon composite cylinders in fire service over more than a decade clearly proves the durability
and reliability of these products. The main concern is with SCBA cylinders left in a fire or high-
heat environment for a prolonged period; such cylinders must be rejected.
*****************
So conclusion: I think it's probably best to not leave tanks in hot cars, especially when they're just filled to max capacity. There's a burst disk on the valve that should bleed off the pressure if it exceeds 5000 psi, so it won't blow up.
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I hear that carbon fiber and resins are more affected by the sunlight . Not sure about tanks though.
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The carbon fiber wouldn't be affected, but the resin certainly could be. UV radiation can break the bonds in some plastics (eg PVC). I'm not sure if the resin is a thermoset or a thermoplastic material. I'd guess thermoset, so it probably shrugs off UV radiation and heat for the most part.
On a related note, I talked to a friend who is a volunteer fire fighter and he reported that the temps in a typical fully engaged house fire can exceed 1000°F (540°C), so I don't think that the temp is the issue, but the time of exposure still might be cause for concern.
On a related note, I talked to a friend who is a volunteer fire fighter and he reported that the temps in a typical fully engaged house fire can exceed 1000°F (540°C), so I don't think that the temp is the issue, but the time of exposure still might be cause for concern.
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I specifically had my vehicle tinted with wavelength specific film to block UV and other wavelengths. That is not an issue for me at the moment. Most firetrucks leave the tanks in the trucks 24/7 and in the storage bins (all metal) right above the rear tires (more heat) and the canisters are basically BAKED in a METAL oven every call or as long as the truck is out doors.
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