Confused by FT rangefinding

[Centercut]

Ok, I’ll admit it. This rangefinding as a part of FT confuses the heck out of me.

Firstly, it’s the one part of shooting that is totally unlike real life. In reality, no one shoots air rifles without a laser rangefinder, at least no one that I know. 

Secondly, from what I can gather, FT is from what, 15 yards to a maximum of 55 yards?. I know that if I have my .177 shooting at approx 925 FPS, and I’m zero’d at say 43 yards, I’m within plus or minus 1/2 inch from about 15 to 50 yards. So I don’t understand why rangefinding is so critical?

Thirdly, I fail to understand what being able to afford a $1000 or more scope that can be set to focus within a yard or two for super accurate rangefinding has to do with being a good marksman?

Ok, hopefully I’m not the only one that has these questions about FT. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not bashing FT. I shot the AFT at EBR with targets out to 100 yards, and it was super fun but it was more like real life in that the ranges were posted. Help me understand why rangefinding is so important, what scope rangefinding has to do with being a good marksman, and why laser rangefinders aren’t allowed? Thanks!!!

 

[Motorhead]

Lol .... first off you should go to a FT match and realize it is NOT just hitting the target face, but getting INTO the hole & tripping it for the point.



We shoot 10 to 55 yards, KZ can be small as 3/8" and generally no larger than 1 1/2" ( tho some will have a few 2" out at the 50-55 distances)

Distances to targets are unknown and MUST be determined by the shooter W/O the use of a range finder which leaves us to use a scope parallax focus to give us data enough to come up with pretty close value ... AN ART in it's self 



IDEALLY you set your zero range to the apex of pellet flight which for most will be @ 25-32 yards pending pellet speed, scope height etc ...

This miens your HOLDING OVER until at a distance your flat in pellet trajectory ... holding that POA for an @ 15 yard window ( 21-35 yards or so ) then start to HOLD OVER again as you go further out.

YOU ABSOLUTELY Do Not want to be set up having to do Hold Under in the game of Field Target.



Just to give you an a rough idea, say your shooting a .177 cal piston gun or PCP at @ 15 ft lbs ( 20 ft lb limit in most classes ) having a zero of 25 yards.

Your HOLD OVER at 10 yards loosely would be 2.5 mil dots, 11 yards 1.7, 12 yards 1.2 and on down till your aiming spot on ..... then again holding more as you go further out where at 55 yards your back to 2.5 mil dots of hold over again.



Field target is a game of EXACT hold overs / POA based upon a determined distance You as shooter must determine. Any serious FT shooter has worked up a D.O.P.E. sheet / cheat sheet so they know where to hold at each distance. Just winging it with a hunters / plinkers attitude and mind set with no D.O.P.E. will KICK YOUR ASS !!



Scott S

AAFTA National Ranked FT shooter

 

[Macros]

Field target started in about 1980 before laser rangefinders were as cheap and readily available as today, so I suspect the rangefinding originated from that.

Also normal field target is limited to the UK 12fpe rules so there is significantly more drop and you'll find the UK guys do generally (not everyone obviously) limit themselves to around 55 yards when hunting with that power level for ethical kills. 

It started out as a bunch of guys with their hunting/sporter airguns finding a fun way to compete against each other and keep skills sharp. As with many sports the wish to win started to trump the original spirit of the thing and an equipment arms race started with fancier scopes, ft stocks and buttthooks etc.

That in large part is why HFT started - which is much more like real life (fixed mag, range estimation with your eye/scope blur etc to mimic having to take a shot quickly without being able to get everything perfect) with rules set to help prevent the onset of another equipment race. Still 12 fpe due to where it was started, but for them that is 'real life'.

 

[Centercut]

Thanks Scott, you partially answered my question. Of course I have a range card for hunting, who doesn’t?

i also understand about hitting the circle in the targets, and their various sizes. Looks like lots of fun. 

What I don’t understand is what rangefinding has to do with being a good shot? I understand that being able to use parallax to find the exact range makes you... a good parallax rangefinder. I guess it’s something that is a throwback to the era prior to accurate laser rangefinders. 

Being a good shot is knowing where to hold for a given target at a known distance and being able to hold steady enough and having good enough trigger control to hit the target. 

Thanks again Scott. I do want to get into FT. I’m just trying to understand the reasoning behind the rules...

Mike 

 

[Motorhead]

To add:

Why LASER range finders ARE NOT allowed in FT ...... unlike your option most folks use range finders in the field .. They don't .

As a sport loosely based on FIELD HUNTING, Time limits on the intended target to sit still while you fiddle with equipment to figure out a distance and then take a shot is NOT PRACTICAL ... and this IMO is the premise of the organized game of field target.



You enter a lane of fire addressing a target, quickly need to ascertain it's distance and KILL IT !! taking two shots ONLY per target. ( 2 targets generally in each lane equaling a total of 4 shots ) No practice shots, no muligans ... either target falls and you get the point or it does not ... PERIOD !



We get a total of 5 minuets to set up, & shoot the 4 shots ... this allows some ranging fiddling, waiting for winds, or figuring out out to dope them too. At bigger matches were on the clock and any shot taken after 5 min total is a MISS. So while 5 min seems a long time, Many many folks have a really hard time to actually do it and shoot a decent score too.



What this does is MAKE EACH SHOOTER liable for the distance he determines target to be at and make POA correction accordingly. In the field no one tells you a distance either or gives you the time to range them ... Squirrels, rabbits, birds seldom just sit there waiting to be shot ... LOL



Anyways ... Thats the game ( loosely )

 

[Centercut]

 

Thanks Macros for the explanation I’m definitely looking at HFT or whatever is closest to real life hunting. My entire reason for wanting to compete in HFT is to hone my real world hunting skills

Mike 

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks Scott, you partially answered my question. Of course I have a range card for hunting, who doesn’t?

i also understand about hitting the circle in the targets, and their various sizes. Looks like lots of fun. 

What I don’t understand is what rangefinding has to do with being a good shot? I understand that being able to use parallax to find the exact range makes you... a good parallax rangefinder. I guess it’s something that is a throwback to the era prior to accurate laser rangefinders. 

Being a good shot is knowing where to hold for a given target at a known distance and being able to hold steady enough and having good enough trigger control to hit the target. 

Thanks again Scott. I do want to get into FT. I’m just trying to understand the reasoning behind the rules...

Thanks Macros for the explanation I’m definitely looking at HFT or whatever is closest to real life hunting. My entire reason for wanting to compete in HFT is to hone my real world hunting skills

Mike

ABSOLUTELY !!!

There is a group of us in the SVFTC ( Sacramento Valley Field Target Club ) that do spring time ground squirrel hunts where we can shoot 200-500 squirrels PER DAY that we set up and shoot exactly like we shoot FT on a stool of short seat with shooting sticks.

Shooting FT makes us better hunters and shooting / hunting squirrels makes us better FT shooters .... yes indeed !

 

[Centercut]

Thanks guys. While I don’t totally agree, and think 5 minutes is a very long time for 4 shots, I’m not sure how many FT shooters actually hunt, ground squirrels for instance. You have about a couple seconds to take the shot at most ground squirrels in southern Cali. To be successful you need to know your range card in your memory and also have memorized ranges to various landmarks in the field or woods where you’re hunting. If you have to look you just lost the shot. While I have zero doubts you could kick my butt in FT, hunting might be a different story, although I only shot about 500 ground squirrels this past year at ranges from 15 to 150 yards. Past 75 or 80 yards it’s critical to have a laser rangefinder. If you’re 5 yards off in your range estimate you just missed...

Anyway, I do appreciate the input and your experience. I’m looking forward to learning and shooting FT. It’s too bad we don’t have much of that in the San Diego area...

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks guys. While I don’t totally agree, and think 5 minutes is a very long time for 4 shots, I’m not sure how many FT shooters actually hunt, ground squirrels for instance. You have about a couple seconds to take the shot at most ground squirrels in southern Cali. To be successful you need to know your range card in your memory. If you have to look you just lost the shot. While I have zero doubts you could kick my butt in FT, hunting might be a different story, although I only shot about 500 ground squirrels this past year at ranges from 15 to 150 yards. 

Anyway, I do appreciate the input and your experience. I’m looking forward to learning and shooting FT. It’s too bad we don’t have much of that in the San Diego area...

Larry ( LD ) is in Temecula and does some FT & BR shoots. A lot of us FT shooters converge on Morro Bay a couple times a year for big matches. In 2019 we will being having 3 there. FYI

 

[Centercut]

Yes, I shoot BR once a month with LD at his place. And I know he and Jeff C shoot FT in the LA area from time to time. But driving from SD or being in the car 2 or 3 hours each way is a little much... I’ve been looking in the actual SD area but so far no luck. 

 

[socaloldman]

This is a very interesting thread and I am reminded of what happened in the scattergun arena when we were all shooting trap and skeet. Our memberships started to decline and it wasn't until sporting clays came along that we saw new blood enter and the old trap/skeet guys were dragged kicking and screaming into the new game, Then they really started to have fun again. I see the same evolution coming like a roaring freight train. I am not crazy enough to recommend any rule changes rather just encourage thinking about adding or expanding more variety and interesting options. Add a new game after a FT competition and see the reaction.

I am very curious about the 5 minute per lane time.

Anyway that my .02 worth. Nick

 

[Motorhead]

I am very curious about the 5 minute per lane time.


Anyway that my .02 worth. Nick



In what regard ?

 

[Centercut]

I think maybe he thinks 75 seconds per shot is a very long time. We hunt GS together, and very rarely do you have more than 5 seconds for a shot, most of the time less...

 

[Motorhead]

I think maybe he thinks 75 seconds per shot is a very long time. We hunt GS together, and very rarely do you have more than 5 seconds for a shot, most of the time less...

When HITS count .... your not sure of range, wind doping to do, reading the face plate on past hits/misses and all else that creeps into your head when you JUST GOTTA HIT IT CORRECTLY .... 75 seconds go's by really quick !

 

[socaloldman]

Motorhead, here is my thoughts on the 5 minute time. It seems to me that the FT event is designed to elicit the most precision shot placement by each shooter requiring them to study and practice range finding, hold, wind doping, etc. all worthwhile skills. However the 5 minute rule seems to pose two main problems. You run into a wall of having a contest run to long (a very secondary issue) but mostly you remove the pressure of running out of time. A very real everyday stress. I am sure this has been debated in the FT ranks and perhaps I am to tuned into hunting and the speed required to make the decision to shoot/ not shoot and then act. Nick

 

[Macros]

Thanks Macros for the explanation I’m definitely looking at HFT or whatever is closest to real life hunting. My entire reason for wanting to compete in HFT is to hone my real world hunting skills

Mike

Pleasure Mike hope you find some shoots at reasonable distance!

Cheers

Greg

 

[Franklink]

I've been involved in field target for a little under two years-i had some of the same thoughts coming into it. 

First, many field target competitors are so intent on intimately knowing their scope, gun, and ranging, that they lay out 55 yards of tape when practicing because they don't think laser rangefinders are accurate enough. I'm too lazy to lay out the tape (and the wind where I live would carry it off anyway), but I am particular enough to have figured out, and account for (when practicing), the fact that my laser rangefinder rounds up to the next whole yard. 

Second, as Scott illustrated, the range at which you can slide a pellet into the kill zone without needing to hold over or click, isn't very large. My most accurate and consistent setup is RIGHT under 20fpe. That gun and scope will hit the same spot from 22.5 to 42.5 yards at high elevation where I get a better BC, but only from 25 to 37.5 when shooting matches at lower elevation. So, knowing the distance is critical. I think the big difference between your presented scenario is that your hunting guns are probably putting out much more power and shooting flatter than Field Target rules allow.

Third, it can be done without $1000 scopes. It can actually be done competitively without $1000 scopes, it's just a little bit of a self-imposed handicap when you're shooting against the Sightron 10-50s made specifically for ranging at 10-55 yards.

And your question about what super accurate ranging has to do with marksmanship comes down to the crux of field target: knowing your equipment. The highly and repetitively competitive shooters are the ones who know their guns, scopes, pellets, barrels, lubes, wind-doping, etc, etc, etc. Field Target seems to me to be a sport for the analytically minded tinkerer. The guy who is constantly toying with all the aspects of the shooting process to arrive at a perfect recipe is the guy who will enjoy the sport and continually improve.

Why aren't rangefinders allowed? Good question that I'm not sure I know the answer to. In our club we have a non-AAFTA recognized class that we call "unlimited." No limits on that class, rangefinders, tripods with guns literally clamped into them, the poor guys use strollers to haul everything from one lane to the next. But, they enjoy it and it makes em happy. It may even fit better with other shooting sports that they're involved in. Personally I think the line in the sand being drawn on this side of no laser rangefinder s has a lot to do with the fact that the sport is already a giant arms race. There has to be a line somewhere i guess.

 

[Motorhead]

Motorhead, here is my thoughts on the 5 minute time. It seems to me that the FT event is designed to elicit the most precision shot placement by each shooter requiring them to study and practice range finding, hold, wind doping, etc. all worthwhile skills. However the 5 minute rule seems to pose two main problems. You run into a wall of having a contest run to long (a very secondary issue) but mostly you remove the pressure of running out of time. A very real everyday stress. I am sure this has been debated in the FT ranks and perhaps I am to tuned into hunting and the speed required to make the decision to shoot/ not shoot and then act. Nick

It is interesting to watch folks in the FT game .... Now the 5 min time is once your butt hits the sitting position. So once the clocks running you handle your weapon, load a shot, address the first target, range it, figure hold, see what winds doing etc ... take it and repeat again making changes if required. Now address a second target, range it, check winds etc ... take it and repeat once more.

We laugh a lot on our misses being actual kill shots if game animals ... but that's whats humbling, close don't count in FT

The Time constraints keep you moving and those who wait for the wind to lye down or other such things can very quickly get you into a time crunch by the 4th shot.

Folks can be downright neurotic trying to make every shot count ... which unlike vermin critter hunting which we take a whole lot less serious and a good old core holing in the ass works nearly as well as a head shot ... Lol



Now at Club matches we don't use timers, but do try and keep the squads moving along.

 

[stoti]

Motorhead, I was wondering where you live? I live over in Potter Valley near Ukiah but go over to the Sacramento club to shoot at the 1000yd range once a month. I haven't gone lately because my boys have basketball on the weekends but we must be in the general vicinity of each other. Just curious. And, I have to admit, the 200-500 squirrel comment caught my attention! lol. Have a good one. Stoti

 

[Joekrooz]

I don’t think you will know until you actually compete in a FT match. Personally I don’t like timers but understand why they are used, some people are just painfully slow.