Confused by FT rangefinding

[GLPalinkas]

Really excellent thread. Most other posters have said it all. The only thing I can add is .... It’s a game.... not unlike golf and others with specific rules. The competition and fellowship is what’s fun. 

Gary

Venice, FL

 

[Exitpupil]

I dislike the very top heavy expensive scopes for rangefinding too, but I love the game and rangefinding is a skill required to play. You might be able to keep the pellet in the KZ with less than perfect holdover, however the best spot for windage error is in the middle where the circle is widest. So off a little on elevation and you have a narrower target allowance for wind. To be on the podium you better range in heat, cold, light, dark, glare, and rain as well as you shoot.

Will Piatt

 

[gonzav71]

Centercut,

I agree with you. I allow rangefinders in my matches in unlimited class. I let one 80 plus year shooter use a rangefinder but he still (I as well) has a hard time holding steady enough to use it accurately at a small target out to 50-55 yards.

Macros,

I agree with you. FT has become an equipment race.

Nonetheless, it comes back to practice and shooting skill no matter what you use. In international (WFTF) matches, you only get one shot per target and 3 minutes to shoot 2 shots at 2 targets per lane. Also you are limited to 12 foot-pounds max at international matches. If you go over 12 FPE, you are disqualified. WFTF is not hunting. It is international competition.

HFT (UK version) is completely different from WFTF or AAFTA events. HFT you cannot use rangefinders not even the scope. No adjustments to the scope turrets as well. You guess the distance, aim using hold overs and shoot it. One shot per target. 2 targets per lane out to 45 yards within 2 minutes. There is no sitting position. You can stand, lay prone, kneel and use field expedient object (tree, stump, fence. etc.) near the shooting peg while still touching the peg. It reminds me of 3D archery a lot.

https://sites.google.com/site/ukahft/about-ukahft

Regards,

Leo

 

[Altair-uy]

Basically is because in the US they call ft to things that aren’t ft, real ft is the one under wftf rules so you shoot sub 12ft/lb guns. You can be a great shooter but with poor range finding skills, you can literally miss your hit zone by a few yards off. Take into consideration that in real ft you don’t have a little chair nor sticks and wind can be tricky so even if you technically could hit a hz if you Are a yard off, you seriously compromise the shot because you have less margin of error because hz are circles. Range finding is a crucial part of the sport, like wind, you can be the best 10m shooter but in ft you probably won’t gonna be the best

 

[Motorhead]

Motorhead, I was wondering where you live? I live over in Potter Valley near Ukiah but go over to the Sacramento club to shoot at the 1000yd range once a month. I haven't gone lately because my boys have basketball on the weekends but we must be in the general vicinity of each other. Just curious. And, I have to admit, the 200-500 squirrel comment caught my attention! lol. Have a good one. Stoti

Our clubs info here: SVFTC

All them spring squirrels are WAY UP NORTH near ALTURAS .... Beldings in the Alfalfa fields

 

[garym]

Over the years I have regarded myself as a good shot, range finder and hunter. Shooting out to 140 yards.

Last year I started UK FT with 12 ft lbs rifles. This sport FT, has shown me how little I actually know about shooting within UK limits.That is what FT and HFT are based on.

It is a facinating disciple that has added to my shooting experience and knowledge. Perhaps some confusion between USA FT and the original UK version causes missunderstanding. The original UK FT is a dark art.

 

[Motorhead]

Over the years I have regarded myself as a good shot, range finder and hunter. Shooting out to 140 yards.

Last year I started UK FT with 12 ft lbs rifles. This sport FT, has shown me how little I actually know about shooting within UK limits.That is what FT and HFT are based on.

It is a facinating disciple that has added to my shooting experience and knowledge. Perhaps some confusion between USA FT and the original UK version causes missunderstanding. The original UK FT is a dark art.

yes indeed ... the UK does not allow range finding / parallax adjusting what so ever. You have a range where focus is clear and then progressively gets blurry IN & OUT from that distance. It is up to the shooter in determining what degree of BRUR is what distance ? ...... Thats pretty nuts !! *At least that is the way i understand it ...

 

[Brislee]

Over the years I have regarded myself as a good shot, range finder and hunter. Shooting out to 140 yards.

Last year I started UK FT with 12 ft lbs rifles. This sport FT, has shown me how little I actually know about shooting within UK limits.That is what FT and HFT are based on.

It is a facinating disciple that has added to my shooting experience and knowledge. Perhaps some confusion between USA FT and the original UK version causes missunderstanding. The original UK FT is a dark art.

yes indeed ... the UK does not allow range finding / parallax adjusting what so ever. You have a range where focus is clear and then progressively gets blurry IN & OUT from that distance. It is up to the shooter in determining what degree of BRUR is what distance ? ...... Thats pretty nuts !! *At least that is the way i understand it ...

No parallax adjustments in UK HFT only. Regular FT or WFTF is the same as how we play.

 

[stoti]

not relevant to topic, I deleted. Sorry guys.

Stoti

 

[Motorhead]

Over the years I have regarded myself as a good shot, range finder and hunter. Shooting out to 140 yards.

Last year I started UK FT with 12 ft lbs rifles. This sport FT, has shown me how little I actually know about shooting within UK limits.That is what FT and HFT are based on.

It is a facinating disciple that has added to my shooting experience and knowledge. Perhaps some confusion between USA FT and the original UK version causes missunderstanding. The original UK FT is a dark art.

yes indeed ... the UK does not allow range finding / parallax adjusting what so ever. You have a range where focus is clear and then progressively gets blurry IN & OUT from that distance. It is up to the shooter in determining what degree of BRUR is what distance ? ...... Thats pretty nuts !! *At least that is the way i understand it ...

No parallax adjustments in UK HFT only. Regular FT or WFTF is the same as how we play.

yes ... my bad for not clarifying ... HFT comment.

 

[Eamon]

Thanks guys. While I don’t totally agree, and think 5 minutes is a very long time for 4 shots, I’m not sure how many FT shooters actually hunt, ground squirrels for instance. You have about a couple seconds to take the shot at most ground squirrels in southern Cali. To be successful you need to know your range card in your memory. If you have to look you just lost the shot. While I have zero doubts you could kick my butt in FT, hunting might be a different story, although I only shot about 500 ground squirrels this past year at ranges from 15 to 150 yards. 

Anyway, I do appreciate the input and your experience. I’m looking forward to learning and shooting FT. It’s too bad we don’t have much of that in the San Diego area...

Larry ( LD ) is in Temecula and does some FT & BR shoots. A lot of us FT shooters converge on Morro Bay a couple times a year for big matches. In 2019 we will being having 3 there. FYI

Motorhead when you guys land in Morro Bay please look me up. I am the old range master for SLOSA. The rest of the range. Ask any RSO at rifle/pistol and they will put us in touch. Or ask Scott or Jim at SLSBA where the match is held they will put us in touch or PM me.

I think it would be really to meet you guys! Also anyone going to ALTURAS I am going as well and would like to meet some fellow squirrel shooters. Please PM

Eamon

 

[dan_house]

It can actually be done competitively without $1000 scopes, it's just a little bit of a self-imposed handicap when you're shooting against the Sightron 10-50s made specifically for ranging at 10-55 yards.

I am living proof that having good gear WILL NOT IMPROVE YOUR FT SCORES. Tireless practice in all phases of the sport will increase you score, even with lesser gear.

I have the scope mentioned in the quote, I have a Thomas L that will put pellet after pellet thru the same hole at 55, even with me shooting. Only marginally helps my score.

But the time pressures (and Ive seen guys run out of time at larger matches....), everyone watching you, unknown wind, shooting into the sun, shooting into deep shade and other range conditions, your never in the same firing position across the course, uphill, downhill... and it becomes a huge challenge. Scott/Motorhead makes it look easy, but he's massively prepared both in training/practice and gear.

it is a demanding,addicting but ultimately fun sport that make you happy its kicking your butt...... 

 

[SteveV]

Forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out, but timers only come into play on two day AAFTA santioned, 100 + shot matches.

The purpose is to keep the pace going, so the match WON'T take all day.

Most of your questions will be answered once YOU ACTUALLY SHOOT A MATCH!

And you'll want to re-think that 45 yard zero as well. And sub 20 fpe. 

 

[SteveV]

Forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out, but timers only come into play on two day AAFTA santioned, 100 + shot matches.

The purpose is to keep the pace going, so the match WON'T take all day.

Most of your questions will be answered once YOU ACTUALLY SHOOT A MATCH!

And you'll want to re-think that 45 yard zero as well. And sub 20 fpe. 

 

[Motorhead]

Forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out, but timers only come into play on two day AAFTA santioned, 100 + shot matches.

The purpose is to keep the pace going, so the match WON'T take all day.

Most of your questions will be answered once YOU ACTUALLY SHOOT A MATCH!

And you'll want to re-think that 45 yard zero as well. And sub 20 fpe.

While true ... In the by-laws of the AAFTA they do state the time constraint. As the Match director for SVFTC we don't enforce it during the monthly clubs fun matches.

But DO want our fledgling members who may one day expand there FT to venues beyond club shoots, to be aware and practice getting them done within the allotted time.

Most of the better shooters seldom use 3 min on average and when you do see them really pushing the clock, most of the shooters are also struggling.

 

[Joekrooz]

All this talk makes me want to knock down some targets.

 

[bandg]

Seems OP might be well served to shoot a FT match and then report results. It isn't something that I've done or want to do but I can understand the process. I'd love to see results.

 

[Centercut]

Yes, I am going to do that... I have the .177 set up for my .22 Crown, so its easy to use .177 and set up for just under 20 FPE.

FYI, I did shoot FT at EBR this year, but it was American Field Target, which is FT< but nowhere near regular HFT that I'm interested in. At EBR it was 15 to 100 yards, no power limit, and yardages were marked. You had to take 8 shots in two minutes at each stage... Plenty of time though. The guys with the best scores were shooting .22 guns with 25.4 grain JSB RD Monsters at about 50 FPE.

 

[bandg]

As per your original question, if you competed in those type FT matches that regularly features the ranging use of scopes and did not do so with your setup, it might provide lots of information about the ranging process and whether it is necessary. Seems a Crown should be accurate enough in general to be competitive. Is there not an energy limit as well in such competitions? Might have to turn down the velocity to meet guidelines. Seems that is where the rubber would meet the road if such limit is there. Higher velocity would seem to make such ranging less helpful. Compare apples to apples.

 

[Centercut]

Thanks for the input, and everyone for all the useful and helpful information. But, let me get back to my original question... I think its already been answered, but what I wanted to know basically is how scope range finding makes you a better marksman? The answer is, that it doesn't. It makes you a better parallax scope rangefinder. Which now that I understand it, is a critical part of the FT game. So what I garner, is that FT isn't only about being a good marksman, it is about the entire experience, range finding, preparation, gun and pellet selection, and yes, of course, marksmanship. I'm looking forward to getting in the FT game...

Somewhere above there are statements I disagree with based on my own experience, like shooters don't use laser rangefinders to hunt. What?!?! IMHO, that's just crazy. Of course, FT shooters that hunt, and keep their hunting ranges within 55 yards or so probably don't need a laser rangefinder. Where I shoot normally, if you limit yourself to shots inside of 55 yards you won't get very many ground squirrels. Late Summer and early Fall, after the squirrels get some experience and become wary, you're very lucky to get shots inside of 75 to 80 yards. Most of my shots in that timeframe are from 75 to 110 yards. For ranges from 60 out to 150 yards, shooting without a rangefinder you might as well close your eyes and pull the trigger, you'll have as much success.