Convincing your PB friends to try air power

[r1lover]

Any of you trying to convince PB'ing friends to give air power a try should just look at the prices of PB loading components or loaded ammo to make your argument.....then take your buds to the range to shoot air guns.

I put serious BP shooting on the back burner for years and was floored recently when I saw the prices of powder, bullets and primers.

I can't understand why anyone who loves to shoot a lot doesn't consider an air gun, especially with the development of larger caliber/high power PCP's and associated matches that are popping up.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Most guys don't shoot. They just have guns. They are fascinated by the big noises. They aren't interested in learning how to hit a target. They just pull the trigger as fast as they can and pretend they are Rambo.

It's like the 4th of July to them. Only with more testosterone.

We should keep it a secret. Those pb boys have no idea what's going on and that's great.

 

[thumper]

Most guys don't shoot. They just have guns. They are fascinated by the big noises. They aren't interested in learning how to hit a target. They just pull the trigger as fast as they can and pretend they are Rambo.

It's like the 4th of July to them. Only with more testosterone.

We should keep it a secret. Those pb boys have no idea what's going on and that's great.

Pretty much what I was going to post lol

They will spend $3000 on a "black gun" and all the red dots and junk to go on, so it can sit in the corner collecting dust and never be shot, much less ever attempting to do any remotely precise shooting with it.

You tell them a good airgun that they can shoot every day in their back yard might cost $1000, and they just can't make it compute that it costs more than a bargain model rimfire.

My experience has been that trying to enlighten powder burner fans is a waste of breath almost all the time. So I just don't.

 

[Scotay42]

@Bedrock Bob you are right. Everytime I talk precision and trigger time, they are already yawning. I only know a few real shooters and they both shoot air as i do. We show up at our local PRS match and get ran off. We have smoked their tails every time in the past, so now they come up with 1000 reasons we are not allowed to compete with them. It is terrible. The rest look at an impact and say they can do all of that with a 10/22. They will never shoot enough to counter balance the cost, but they have a $2k 1911 that they "carry" to church. Just in case. Smh

 

[RabbitofCaerbannog]

@Bedrock Bob you are right. Everytime I talk precision and trigger time, they are already yawning. I only know a few real shooters and they both shoot air as i do. We show up at our local PRS match and get ran off. We have smoked their tails every time in the past, so now they come up with 1000 reasons we are not allowed to compete with them. It is terrible. The rest look at an impact and say they can do all of that with a 10/22. They will never shoot enough to counter balance the cost, but they have a $2k 1911 that they "carry" to church. Just in case. Smh

Usually busting out the airguns at a rimfire match at the local GC will catch eyes, or when at the 100yrd indoor down the street from my house to test projectiles at range. Will always draw questions, Winning a friendly Bullseye shoot at 25-50-100 at same indoor... Usually when you explain the cost of the gun, then explain the AIR part of it... "PSHH, hell no" Like you said, from the same retirees carrying a $3800 les baer 1911 or has every single accessory on their "CQB RIG" Cobalt Kinetics or Q honey badger SBRs "It matters when your life depends on it". They have a custom built Tikka with a custom fluted barrel and March Highmaster or Kahles, yet they don't know what parallax is ...

 

[Bedrock Bob]

As far as gun guys go I don't try to convert them. I just outshoot them. The facts are the guy with the most trigger time is going to shoot the best. Period. And NOBODY gets trigger time like an airgunner.

Name one core skill an air rifle won't teach better than a centerfire rifle. You just can't do it.

Shooting offhand is an art you can only learn with hundreds of thousands of shots. Very few fellows come close to mastery. There is no better teaching tool than an air rifle.

It's the ONLY way a poor man is going to learn to shoot.

It's the perfect way to practice and we don't need a bunch of bump firing trigger dicks raising prices and shooting up all the pellets. They've already bought up all the match rimfire ammo. Pretty soon a tin of JSB's will cost $40.

It's crazy man. A million guys out there armed to the teeth and one in a bushel might have a clue. That one probably shoots a pellet rifle.

 

[airgunmike56]

I am in West Texas, I love my PB guns been a while since I shot any, LOL, I have been laughed out of gun shops , BB guns are sold at wal mart, , We have a large gun show coming up this weekend I have ask the the guys at the show about PCP airguns ,, I am 68 and they call me son or boy, WE sell guns here not TOYS
I got this answer a few times,, All in all I think its pretty funny, I still go to the gun shows just to look, 20 bucks to get in is a rip off,,,
I would like to show them old farts some of my PCPs but you can't bring guns in unless you have a table,, I guess I could say , It's not a gun its a toy.. LOL
But I got other battles I am dealing with now , And Cancer is the big one,,
Mike

 

[RabbitofCaerbannog]

I am in West Texas, I love my PB guns been a while since I shot any, LOL, I have been laughed out of gun shops , BB guns are sold at wal mart, , We have a large gun show coming up this weekend I have ask the the guys at the show about PCP airguns ,, I am 68 and they call me son or boy, WE sell guns here not TOYS
I got this answer a few times,, All in all I think its pretty funny, I still go to the gun shows just to look, 20 bucks to get in is a rip off,,,
I would like to show them old farts some of my PCPs but you can't bring guns in unless you have a table,, I guess I could say , It's not a gun its a toy.. LOL
But I got other battles I am dealing with now , And Cancer is the big one,,
Mike

Don't envy you. Had my bout going on 2years now in remission. I was lucky getting caught early at stage 2a, 3 cycles BEP, radiation and surgery.... Nothing worse than going in for what you thought was due to some sort of infection and hearing "were referring you to oncology".
All the best man. Be persistent.... Never relax. Fight for yourself. Wait and see periods were the worst for me.

 

[3Crows]

The problem with air power is the air part. It can be rather expensive and complicated to acquire the compressor, bottles and other paraphernalia and it is almost all on line shopping. Very few have the luxury of handling the air guns or the stuff that makes them go. I can go to any number of shops or stores and handle and look at in detail anything I could need or want for a PB.

Then the types of guns that can compete with any of a number of 22LR rifles are also expensive and finicky. Most of these guns are also sourced from far away old Eastern Block or worse China and require a lot more maintenance than PBs. Another consideration, air gunners seem to think a two month old rifle is obsolete whereas PB guys often shoot rifles designed or even actually are over a hundred years ago. And my PBs have appreciated, ever checked the price of a nice used M3 compared to a new M4, who wants that old thing, not me, I want the new hotness. What will it be worth 50 years from now, not much if anything. And I see a M(X) or a Ghost in my not too distant future with some luck and frugality, hard for me.

And air rifles are really fragile, they cannot take a fall or a tip over and seem to need to be toted about carefully and even then they do not hold POI. I have PBs I sighted in when I was a child and carried extensively and are still on zero. I have duck hunted in salt marshes, carried my Marlin 1895 in Alaska for protection and crossed streams where it was submerged, climbed boulder covered slopes in drenching rain and sleet and yes, it got some knocks along the way. And yet it functioned and held zero, no matter what, it can be counted on to work if needed. So I am sort of the mind that air guns are sort of toys, not really fair, I know. But until the day they are rugged and built to last decades or lifetimes a lot of PB guys will look askance at them, just too fragile to repeat myself. And yes, they are missing out on a lot of fun and pain and frustration and monetary expense, it is what it is.

Ammunition is not so expensive, especially .22, a pack of JSB pellets are not exactly free. A lot of folks, seeing what happened, stocked up on ammo and reloading supplies. I have enough supplies to keep me reloading my favorites (.45-70, .44M, .45 Colt, .22 Hornet and a few others) for the rest of my life. And I have over 200,000 .22 rounds which likely will outlast me and I am still buying. Primers are the annoying thing for those who did not stock up. And Hogden quit making Trail Boss propellent, which is annoying becuase it is the powder I love to load for .45-70 and while I have a bunch, well, I love the stuff.

I love my air guns and want more but I love my PBs a lot more. There is no replacement for displacement when toothy creatures are considering how I might taste.

 

[Contndr35BB]

Don't envy you. Had my bout going on 2years now in remission. I was lucky getting caught early at stage 2a, 3 cycles BEP, radiation and surgery.... Nothing worse than going in for what you thought was due to some sort of infection and hearing "were referring you to oncology".
All the best man. Be persistent.... Never relax. Fight for yourself. Wait and see periods were the worst for me.

Been there, no treatments , just surgery. Yearly blood work earlier this week shows all good. Best wishes for you & AIrgunMike56. If you can take someone
pesting one time , specifically birds like HOSP , starlings or pigeons and show them shots like those you rarely can take w/ their .22 rimfire . That has worked a couple times for me. And, you may end up w/ a shooting partner . Oh, don't try & tell them it's "less costly", that won't hold water, ask my Queen!

 

[rancho]

It depends on the PB owner's situation. Is the PB owner living in a place where he could shoot an air gun daily? Does he have the space for it? If so, educate them on the benefits of air gun ownership. Cheap to own and shoot and accurate. And as far as guns go, the sky is the limit. Mos PBOs have not idea just how accurate air guns are and still think of them as "toys". And I am largely talking about rifles-pistols are something else. You don't have a pulse if you don't get excited about a GK-1

 

[thammer]

I have a membership at the local range. 100yd indoor with 10 benches. Always get a pb guy behind the trigger and they are always amazed. Then cost comes up and it's the same as stated above. A 10-22 is only $250 why pay more for an airgun/tank/compressor.

 

[3Crows]

A CZ457 or even a lowly Savage MkII will often if not nearly always outshoot or at least equal the best air rifles, with quality ammo each prefers. As much as I love the Ruger 1022, the Walmart special (which is really nice and they have the Savage in the Boyds At One stock cheap) is not on par with a higher end air rifle. Not even close. But I have a custom built (by me) 1022 that certainly will but I also have some money in it, way more than $250. And Volquartsen has the new Summit, based on a 1022 but it is a side lever bolt action and they are accurate! And silent with a legal suppressor. And cost near $1,800! Guns can be expensive, be the ABs or PBs, when we start looking for perfection in accuracy, that is going to cost some $, just what it takes to chase perfection and I suppose it is part of the allure.

If I had the dollars I would go get a Ghost in .30 right now, but I do not .

There is a brick and mortar sporting goods store back home that does carry or at least has been carrying numerous air rifles and supplies and equipment along side their PBs. I bought my first Urban and M-Rod from them. I have made numerous PB purchases from them and they know me so sometimes they give me a special deal. They carry FX. Uh, no, no special deals on these . It was the getting to handle and hold and look at the rifles that got me over the edge for PCPs. And handling that FX M3, wow, it was a beauty, he had to pry it out of my fangles.

I am nearly 71, been a gun guy since I was 4. I shoot a box, I buy another or two. I use up some primers or powder, I buy a box or two. Slowly, inexorably, like a glacier grinding a mountain away, I have accumulated a supply that will out last me. I buy low, I buy high, when available, that way the costs average out. I am now trying to get in a stock of pellets. What cannot be squirrled away is air. I guess in the same vein, eventually purchasing a reliable compressor is a necessary thing, no different from putting in a supply of powder or primers. The air is free, the pumping and storage part is not.

 

[Vetmx]

I’m in the I keep my mouth shut camp. They can do them and I’ll do me. After they wrecked that hobby/sport by hoarding and driving prices through the roof, I’ve held a grudge ever since.

 

[r1lover]

I've told PB guys a 12 fpe field target shooter has to account for everything within 55 yds. that a PB shooter has to account for within 500 yds, but few PB shooters have experience out to 500 yds, in wind and rain, in flat and hilly terrain, so they don't get it.

A lot of PB shooters only learn to sight in their guns. Air rifle shooters learn to SHOOT their guns. If you love SHOOTING, a precision air rifle is a must have IMO.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

A CZ457 or even a lowly Savage MkII will often if not nearly always outshoot or at least equal the best air rifles, with quality ammo each prefers. As much as I love the Ruger 1022, the Walmart special (which is really nice and they have the Savage in the Boyds At One stock cheap) is not on par with a higher end air rifle. Not even close. But I have a custom built (by me) 1022 that certainly will but I also have some money in it, way more than $250. And Volquartsen has the new Summit, based on a 1022 but it is a side lever bolt action and they are accurate! And silent with a legal suppressor. And cost near $1,800! Guns can be expensive, be the ABs or PBs, when we start looking for perfection in accuracy, that is going to cost some $, just what it takes to chase perfection and I suppose it is part of the allure.

If I had the dollars I would go get a Ghost in .30 right now, but I do not .

There is a brick and mortar sporting goods store back home that does carry or at least has been carrying numerous air rifles and supplies and equipment along side their PBs. I bought my first Urban and M-Rod from them. I have made numerous PB purchases from them and they know me so sometimes they give me a special deal. They carry FX. Uh, no, no special deals on these . It was the getting to handle and hold and look at the rifles that got me over the edge for PCPs. And handling that FX M3, wow, it was a beauty, he had to pry it out of my fangles.

I am nearly 71, been a gun guy since I was 4. I shoot a box, I buy another or two. I use up some primers or powder, I buy a box or two. Slowly, inexorably, like a glacier grinding a mountain away, I have accumulated a supply that will out last me. I buy low, I buy high, when available, that way the costs average out. I am now trying to get in a stock of pellets. What cannot be squirrled away is air. I guess in the same vein, eventually purchasing a reliable compressor is a necessary thing, no different from putting in a supply of powder or primers. The air is free, the pumping and storage part is not.

My CZ457 cost the same as my HW95. If you buy ammo in bulk it's only .07 per round. Unless you can't find a spot to shoot its a better rifle for just about the same cost outlay.

PCP has never interested me much. They are fantastic rifles but just too much gear and expense. The rimfire is hard to beat. There is a huge move away from centerfire toward PCP and rimfire. I think more guys out here in the hinterland are going to rimfire. In more populated areas the PCP is probably a great choice.

Under 50 yards a springer is hard to beat for practice. On most ranges a guy with a springer can hit just as many targets as any sporting rifle in any caliber.

Offhand a simple springer is my preferred rifle. Especially against guns that are "geared up" with all sorts of goodies and tactical crap. I love to get one of those guys in a plinking contest at short range. If they actually have to pick the gun up off the table to shoot, things work out nicely for the guy shooting a springer.

 

[Peashooter]

I am thinking.

Get airgun, shoot circles around them again and again.
And watch them steam.

 

[steve123]

My CZ457 cost the same as my HW95. If you buy ammo in bulk it's only .07 per round. Unless you can't find a spot to shoot its a better rifle for just about the same cost outlay.

PCP has never interested me much. They are fantastic rifles but just too much gear and expense. The rimfire is hard to beat. There is a huge move away from centerfire toward PCP and rimfire. I think more guys out here in the hinterland are going to rimfire. In more populated areas the PCP is probably a great choice.

The main problem with rimfire is the cost of high quality match ammo, for example the highest end is close to $32 a box of 50 retail which is insane to me. I remember buying Lapua Polar Biathlon at $14 a box at case price and felt ripped off back then a decade ago.
This is why I don't see myself buying new production high end match ammo again.
I was very happy that a old friend in his mid 80's sold me most of his 22rf match ammo super cheap. He had cases of Eley and RWS match ammo from the 90's. It shoots well.

But for 22rf plinking ammo it's not horrible pricing yet but it's pretty much just blaster ammo.

I don't shoot centerfire much anymore because of the cost, even though I reload for all of it, and when I do I shoot as little as I can to be satisfied.

 

[dgeesaman]

I think it’s harder to convert big bore PB shooters unless it involves backyard pesting or stealth. Those guys think that the saving money involves 223 or 22LR.

Rimfire shooters are a lot closer and already in tune with ballistic energy and you may get some converts from the precision rimfire crowd due to the cost and intense competition to find match ammo.

It’s funny to me how many PB shooters have a big box Gamo, like it, but don’t see value in better airguns. I truly don’t know why.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

The main problem with rimfire is the cost of high quality match ammo, for example the highest end is close to $32 a box of 50 retail which is insane to me. I remember buying Lapua Polar Biathlon at $14 a box at case price and felt ripped off back then a decade ago.
This is why I don't see myself buying new production high end match ammo again.
I was very happy that a old friend in his mid 80's sold me most of his 22rf match ammo super cheap. He had cases of Eley and RWS match ammo from the 90's. It shoots well.

But for 22rf plinking ammo it's not horrible pricing yet but it's pretty much just blaster ammo.

I don't shoot centerfire much anymore because of the cost, even though I reload for all of it, and when I do I shoot as little as I can to be satisfied.

The difference between CCI SV and Eley Tenex is very little in accuracy. A lot in price.

Yes, if you are "match" shooting it matters. Otherwise it just dosent.

The difference in most rimfire accuracy is largely in the headspace. You can make a rimfire shoot about anything good by setting the headspace to the rim thickness of the round you are shooting. In some rifles this is incredibly easy.

If you "compete" there is always a fuss over ammo. No matter what you shoot. If you don't "compete" that all goes out the window. Just about any rimfire ammo shoots good enough. And a lot of ammo can be made to shoot excellent by tuning the rifle a bit.

Let's face it, the difference between a $4k Voodoo tuned to perfection and a $650 CZ457 out of the box is about 1/4"-3/8" at 100 yards. The ammo might make some difference but not enough to worry about unless your shooting "competition".

A quality rifle will toss most rimfire rounds pretty close together no matter what you are feeding it. Just like a quality air rifle. If you are chasing "precision" then the cost (and availability) of ammo may be an issue. If your goal is a super accurate sporting rimfire it simply is not. You can get almost any rimfire ammo to work well in your rifle if your goal is no loftier than about 1 moa.