Convincing your PB friends to try air power

[Richmeister]

If the same hubris and bias displayed here are not tempered while “attempting to educate pb shooters”, then I am hardly shocked that they are not lining up to join the sport.

While I would never discourage a person from getting practice and repetition behind an airgun trigger, I believe shooting pbs is far better practice for airgunning than the inverse. Poor form, lack of breath control, lack of trigger control, lack of recoil control, and not understanding natural point of aim just to name a few can be ignored to a much higher degree with an airgun. There’s a joke from a comedian that goes, “I play the guitar. I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision… because I didn’t know how to play it, so I was a $h!tty teacher. I would never have went to me.” Someone who has a rigid understanding of shooting discipline could certainly use air as a good practice medium, but in parallel with that quote, bad practice does not make a good shooter.

Everyone I have shown the capability of airguns to has approached the subject with curiousity and respect. Some are off-put by the peripherals associated with PCPs. Some are unbothered by the cost of ammunition, so airguns offer no benefit in that regard. Some are quite old school and disinterested in purchasing anything they cannot see, feel and handle first. Some have their own land where they can shoot any pb they want at any time. Some mostly show up to the range as a social function, and could give a hoot if they even pull the trigger. Some have a bucket list of collectible guns, and airguns don’t make the cut. Some fail to see it as a companion hobby, and do not want- or have the means or support- to add a “new” hobby. I would proffer that some don’t have an audience to indulge their purchase. Whereas picking up an old Winchester model 94 will get some oohs and aahs at the line, having to explain what an MK4 is and why it’s neat just doesn’t have the same appeal. Regardless the reason, I respect their choices and decisions. Sorry to have to say it, but growth of the sport is not going to be helped by personal ego stroking.

It's not ego stroking, it is marksmanship. No way is shooting a weapon with even mild recoil helping the shooter become better. An ability to learn breath control, trigger control and site picture isn't mastered in reverse order.
Arrogance and ignorance is

 

[Bedrock Bob]

If the same hubris and bias displayed here are not tempered while “attempting to educate pb shooters”, then I am hardly shocked that they are not lining up to join the sport.

While I would never discourage a person from getting practice and repetition behind an airgun trigger, I believe shooting pbs is far better practice for airgunning than the inverse. Poor form, lack of breath control, lack of trigger control, lack of recoil control, and not understanding natural point of aim just to name a few can be ignored to a much higher degree with an airgun. There’s a joke from a comedian that goes, “I play the guitar. I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision… because I didn’t know how to play it, so I was a $h!tty teacher. I would never have went to me.” Someone who has a rigid understanding of shooting discipline could certainly use air as a good practice medium, but in parallel with that quote, bad practice does not make a good shooter.

Everyone I have shown the capability of airguns to has approached the subject with curiousity and respect. Some are off-put by the peripherals associated with PCPs. Some are unbothered by the cost of ammunition, so airguns offer no benefit in that regard. Some are quite old school and disinterested in purchasing anything they cannot see, feel and handle first. Some have their own land where they can shoot any pb they want at any time. Some mostly show up to the range as a social function, and could give a hoot if they even pull the trigger. Some have a bucket list of collectible guns, and airguns don’t make the cut. Some fail to see it as a companion hobby, and do not want- or have the means or support- to add a “new” hobby. I would proffer that some don’t have an audience to indulge their purchase. Whereas picking up an old Winchester model 94 will get some oohs and aahs at the line, having to explain what an MK4 is and why it’s neat just doesn’t have the same appeal. Regardless the reason, I respect their choices and decisions. Sorry to have to say it, but growth of the sport is not going to be helped by personal ego stroking.

I don't think anyone here that is stroking their personal ego intends to do much educational outreach. Nor do I think our saucy attitudes are driving anyone away.

Many gun guys ARE stroking their personal egos and a gun that dosent make noise or explode on impact dosent stroke it for them. In that respect ego probably factors heavily. They have to feel that power to get a tickle. It's not about accuracy or precision. These guys represent a fairly large subset of the "gun world".

So worry not about us offending the trigger dicks. The are more worried about their "y" chromosome growing a new leg than they are about hitting a target anyway.

I don't see the demographics as "Airgun shooters" and "PB shooters". I see shooters as " riflemen" and "everyone else". Any rifleman will enjoy shooting an air rifle. There are no borders to cross or barriers to break through for them. It's a rifle and they'll shoot it because they like to shoot rifles.

For everyone else it's different. They need more than an air rifle can give them. For them it's not about the rifle. It's about something else.

 

[JimD]

If I want to shoot beyond 35 yards I have to go to a range. 35 and less is available in my yard (legally). I may go to a range 2 or 3 times a year. I shoot airguns at home at least 2 or 3 times a week. I am cheap so the difference in ammo cost is a factor but no need for hearing protection and no apparent recoil are too. I can shoot my 8 lb 30 06 accurately but would not enjoy shooting it 50 times in a day. Rimfire also has no apparent recoil so high shot count is possible but then there is ammo cost. PCPs get almost all my trigger time. But if I could shoot PBs at home it would be more mixed. For my son and his father in law they have to go to a range to shoot so the shoot pb. My son likes my pcps but for his limited range time he shoots pbs.

 

[3Crows]

I will not abide picky rifles, be they air rifles or rimfire or centerfire. I understand rifles do have preferences but if I have a rifle that will only shoot one brand of .22 ammo from one batch or exactly one type of pellet or only one specific load if a PB, then that rifle is going to have to find a new home. I will not keep a rimfire that will not shoot CCI SV and MM decently. As more of a hunter and pester than a paper shooter, decent to me means I can reliably hit a rabbits head or a squirrel at one hundred yards.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I will not abide picky rifles, be they air rifles or rimfire or centerfire. I understand rifles do have preferences but if I have a rifle that will only shoot one brand of .22 ammo from one batch or exactly one type of pellet or only one specific load if a PB, then that rifle is going to have to find a new home. I will not keep a rimfire that will not shoot CCI SV and MM decently. As more of a hunter and pester than a paper shooter, decent to me means I can reliably hit a rabbits head or a squirrel at one hundred yards.

As far as rimfire ammo goes it can be all over the place. Some are truly crap and simply won't shoot well. Most can be pretty decent.

A rimfire headspaces on the rim. There is a wide range of rim dimensions as well as a wide range in gun tolerances. When the bolt closes snug against the rim it will shoot pretty good. If not it shoots wild.

I think this is the main problem with rimfire accuracy. You aren't going to get lopsided bullets to fly straight or adjust powder charges. But you can adjust headspace or find the ammo with rim dimensions to match the rifle.

.042 headspace will grip almost any .22 rimfire case and provide reasonable accuracy. More headspace and some ammo is loose in the chamber and accuracy sucks. You have to shoot "thicker" rims and those are often substandard ammo made for semi auto plinking in rifles with loose tolerances.

Any quality ri.fire ammo with an .043-.041 rim thickness will shoot well out of a properly headspaced rifle. Some better than others but it gets you "close enough" and generally under an inch at 100 yards which is plenty for most purposes.

A reloader knows that a case sized too small will shoot wild groups. The shoulder must fit in the chamber to be accurate. Semi auto pistol rounds must be the same length. The rimfire is no different. The rim dimension is the very first building block in an accuracy equation. If it's loose the ES and bullet CG means very little. You get soft pin strikes, misfires and bad accuracy no matter how good the ammo is.

A rifle that's particular to one type of ammo usually has too much headspace. That ammo usually has a thick rim. When headsace is reduced to .043-.042 it will shoot much better with other ammo.

You can't really test rimfire ammo without doing the headspace first. You aren't finding the most accurate ammo...just the case that fits your bolt best. When you get the headspace right and your ammo is held properly at the rim THEN you can see the effects of ES and bullet conceltricity. A properly headspaced rimfire will shoot everything a lot better and some ammo MUCH better. Without headspacing you are stuck with whatever brass happens to fit the best.

 

[TRIPP]

As far as gun guys go I don't try to convert them. I just outshoot them. The facts are the guy with the most trigger time is going to shoot the best. Period. And NOBODY gets trigger time like an airgunner.

Name one core skill an air rifle won't teach better than a centerfire rifle. You just can't do it.

Shooting offhand is an art you can only learn with hundreds of thousands of shots. Very few fellows come close to mastery. There is no better teaching tool than an air rifle.

It's the ONLY way a poor man is going to learn to shoot.

It's the perfect way to practice and we don't need a bunch of bump firing trigger dicks raising prices and shooting up all the pellets. They've already bought up all the match rimfire ammo. Pretty soon a tin of JSB's will cost $40.

It's crazy man. A million guys out there armed to the teeth and one in a bushel might have a clue. That one probably shoots a pellet rifle.

 

[Just Zack 2]

At some point everyone will get along (air, powder, muzzle loaders, etc.)... Until laser blasters come out

 

[Sawney Bean]

Most guys don't shoot. They just have guns. They are fascinated by the big noises. They aren't interested in learning how to hit a target. They just pull the trigger as fast as they can and pretend they are Rambo.

It's like the 4th of July to them. Only with more testosterone.

We should keep it a secret. Those pb boys have no idea what's going on and that's great.

^^^This^^^!!!!

90+% of the people I've gone shooting with are some variation of this. When you meet that guy that's just content to shoot for hours at a time and obsesses over groups or times, then that's one of that sub 10% that's a serious shooter. Even then though, it's likely that airguns won't be that interesting to them. Serious shooters usually have their own shooting obsessions that involve powder burning.

 

[Sawney Bean]

One other experience I've had many times with gun collecting, testosterone shooters is that of being handed a pistol gripped shotgun with the expectation of shooting it from the hip. I'll always do it because it's expected and they're eager to have someone admire their new toy, but I'm always underwhelmed by it. I really don't get the thrill they seem to from randomly spraying shot. I can see where such a weapon would be great for close range defense, but they're boring as hell to actually shoot.

 

[javelinaStank]

I am in West Texas, I love my PB guns been a while since I shot any, LOL, I have been laughed out of gun shops , BB guns are sold at wal mart, , We have a large gun show coming up this weekend I have ask the the guys at the show about PCP airguns ,, I am 68 and they call me son or boy, WE sell guns here not TOYS
I got this answer a few times,, All in all I think its pretty funny, I still go to the gun shows just to look, 20 bucks to get in is a rip off,,,
I would like to show them old farts some of my PCPs but you can't bring guns in unless you have a table,, I guess I could say , It's not a gun its a toy.. LOL
But I got other battles I am dealing with now , And Cancer is the big one,,
Mike

As my mother used to tell me….. don’t cast pearls before swine.

 

[primaz]

Like others the beauty of an air pistol or air rifle with today's technology is that they are so accurate, reliable and quiet enough to shoot even at home. When I go to the range, we get a lot of looks, and others interested in what we are shooting.

Why? the proof is in the results. On a typical day at the range I will go thru about 700-800 rounds and they are in the black! Here is one of the examples just using my Huben GK1 .25 pistol. Also the entire day was this one target and re-pasting new bullseye stickers on the one target the range gave us all day shooting in the 25 yard range and the 50 yard distances. Note 90% of the pistol shooters were at the 7 and 15 yard range and if you looked at their paper most could not create any clear pattern. It almost looked like they were shooting a shot gun with bird shot compared to the Huben GK1. Lastly we were there the entire day vs most PB's could not afford to shoot more than a couple of hours at best taking forever between shots.

 

[Contndr35BB]

Like others the beauty of an air pistol or air rifle with today's technology is that they are so accurate, reliable and quiet enough to shoot even at home. When I go to the range, we get a lot of looks, and others interested in what we are shooting.

Why? the proof is in the results. On a typical day at the range I will go thru about 700-800 rounds and they are in the black! Here is one of the examples just using my Huben GK1 .25 pistol. Also the entire day was this one target and re-pasting new bullseye stickers on the one target the range gave us all day shooting in the 25 yard range and the 50 yard distances. Note 90% of the pistol shooters were at the 7 and 15 yard range and if you looked at their paper most could not create any clear pattern. It almost looked like they were shooting a shot gun with bird shot compared to the Huben GK1. Lastly we were there the entire day vs most PB's could not afford to shoot more than a couple of hours at best taking forever between shots.

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I believe with all the new shooters/ gun owners in the last 4-8 yrs. that most cannot afford to shoot enough to become proficient . I've been a hand loader since I was 17 yrs old & have "accumulated" plenty of ammo for every firearm I own & picked up .22 rimfire as it was available throughout the past ammo shortages. That is some fine shooting you've done there! I generally don't shoot PB's as much either but go through lots of pellets a week in the ManCave or at the farm permission when the weather allows.

 

[Richmeister]

The guy that hits the most is also the guy that has missed the most. It's the riflemans paradox.

I can't argue with that as I resemble it. Lol

 

[boresnake]

If you have not chased them off already....tell them how much it costs.