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Course Design- Setting a 36T in the Wind

JW.

Member
Nov 19, 2024
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AAFTA has released their new scoring formula for 2025, it is what it is at this point, to garner 100% of the available GP points for a match win the course difficulty needs to be set at 36T without wind and light/dark difficulty modifiers.

The Battle Mountain match in Nevada is a very difficult venue to shoot, the wind, the sun, and the canyon walls are relentless. A 45 yard target looks like its 55 yards away, a 55 yard target looks illegal, one's sense of scale/distance is distorted and there is very little around to judge wind when it is under 10mph.

This is not a post for commenting on the new scoring formula, it is to try and figure out how to set an 'easy' 36T course in a location where there is a lot of wind. Since the scores are relative to that match a low scoring win counts for full points (36T course), we'll just have to live with the lower hit percentages (we're Tough Enough).

Typically the course in Nevada has been set at or around a 28T, which sounds low yet some of the best shooters in the world have a very difficult time breaking into the typical hit percentages seen on a more difficult course without the Nevada wind.

Scott H posted about optimizing the course to as close to 36T as possible for all targets. Which makes sense, but is it better to put the smaller targets further out or the larger targets further out if you want to account for a low Troyer target (say for offhand)? We have a unique offhand lane that we would ultimately like to keep but it will not allow for a 36T target (without modifying the target itself).

Would it make sense to move the further targets in some and the closer targets out? Thinking that further out targets are more difficult in the wind... Is this any gain over keeping things at 36T.

I've been toying with the idea of setting some long distance small kz targets in areas where there is less wind (can't do that with the distance targets). I believe for Hunter a small KZ is easier if it is not at 10 yards.

What would people prefer? What have people experienced as good/bad? Nevada had one day of 36T but it was haphazardly set on site and likely a bad experience for target placement.

Is there a way to make an easy or hard 36T course? I suppose the easiest would be as Scott mentioned, everything as close to 36T as possible.

The Worlds was a very interestingly set group of courses, i'd be interested in knowing more about the course layout if it was a 36T, the variation in target size and distance was well balanced.

Is setting courses like making a sandwich, when you make it it doesn't taste the same as when someone else makes it...? LOL
 
I think that most of the Battle Mountain competitors are used to lower scores at that venue. I wouldn’t worry too much about an even lower hit rate.

There is another course setting strategy that could be used. Set the course that you normally would. Take the hardest targets and make them the maximum Troyer allowed (50T). They act as “sacrificial” targets. As few will actually get them, but it raises the course average T a significant amount. That allows the other targets to be more reasonable.

The hit rate on your standing shots is already low. Make them 50T. Most people miss them anyway, but at least those targets will contribute to raising the average T as much as possible, which will boost the GP points from the other targets.
 
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In the new GP scoring method, it isn't important how poor a score you get out of 120, as you are compared to the highest scoring competitor in your division. So, just set a 36T course and let things fall where they do. Even if you're best Hunter PCP score is a 20/120, on the 36T course, it will be a 100 in GP points - the max GP points possible.
 
In the new GP scoring method, it isn't important how poor a score you get out of 120, as you are compared to the highest scoring competitor in your division. So, just set a 36T course and let things fall where they do. Even if you're best Hunter PCP score is a 20/120, on the 36T course, it will be a 100 in GP points - the max GP points possible.
I like that idea ( Both ) as in making the long shots Super difficult & high Troyer ... AND .... leave the rest of the course doable and engaging.
Having the entire course exceedingly difficult won't be fun for anyone ... as in Fun brings folks back another year after year, Insanely difficult turns folks off on what is already a VERY difficult venue.
 
The only way to make a >45yd target a 50T is to have it set so the extreme angle modifier is applied. If you want to get the full 50T difficulty on targets to help increase the average, you'll need to look at placing small KZs at maximum distance.

On flat-ish land, these are about the max:
  • 1/2 in at 25 yds
  • 15mm at 29.5 yds
  • 5/8 in at 31 yds
  • 3/4 in at 37 yds

If you can get the extreme angle modifier applied:
  • 1/2 in at 20 yds
  • 15mm at 23.5 yds
  • 5/8 in at 25 yds
  • 3/4 in at 30 yds
  • 1 in at 40 yds
  • 1.5 in at 54 yds

If your extreme angles are slightly more than the 15 degree mark, you can apply the multiplier and not add nearly as much real world difficulty as the Troyer calc applies. So, try to push your angled targets to a higher difficulty first, then work on others. The 1 inch and 1.5 inch targets aren't getting above a 45T without applying the extreme angle.

Also, pushing one target per forced position lane to a high difficulty is another way to get a few hard targets to pull the average up.

Unfortunately, I think you will end up with a course where 35% of the targets are 40T or harder.
 
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Yeah on shots that are super windy or positionals, that you can use smaller KZ to increase the Troyer to 50 that’s what you do bring the match close to 36. Remember if it’s not a 36, it’s not the end of the world either. It’s great to have some challenging lanes, but it’s also great to have a good time without the feeling of defeat. You’ll have ask yourself what’s the priority. It’s tough to get targets past 45 to 50T but super easy below. Yeah make the positionals tough as snot since those have the highest potential to miss.
Remember with a 49.3T which is a 3/4@37 yards, you can do a 22T which is a 1.5”@33y and still have near a 36T avg between the two. So you have plenty of opportunities to still make easies and not so easies.
 
@shootermeb I think the usuals will be able to deal with the low scores, getting new folks out there with a 28T course is difficult enough, at 36T?! (insert evil laugh here) Decided to go up to 36T since if we're going to get low scores may as well have them count 100% to GP points!!

I think the 1" not being a 50T may be a typo. A 1" target is the largest KZ that you can set at a pure 50T without adding the modifiers, a 1/14" target will be a 49.5T at 55 yards on flat ground. I guess a 1 1/8 target could be a 50T at 55 yards, don't have any of them so I don't know... Funny enough, I was doing these calculations last night trying to figure out how much further a 1 1/2" target needs to go to make up for a 1 3/4" at 55 yards (I was not working in the excel file).

I'm liking the idea of making the forced shots legally impossible... I suck at those anyways. LOL

Intuitively I think I was headed mostly in the right direction, far too many smart people here to not get some input, thanks everyone!!
 
I guess my question is if you shot at a place that is really difficult why would set the course at a 36t? As a match director my main concern is having a GP that is fair and that people want to come back to. In my experience most people don't like shooting an extremely difficult course and grumblings are always heard if a course is set too hard. Now I'm not saying making it a cake walk but a 32-33T at a GP seems to hit a happy median. I would never set a course at the hardest level just so a few individuals can get the maximum GP points.

Last year I set our GP courses at a 32.5 before any other factors were considered such as wind and lighting factors. Although both our Highlands and Hollow courses were set at the same Troyer rating the Hollow course shot 2-3 points harder due to elevation. This year I'm considering making the Hollow course perhaps a little easier due to the difficulty of the elevated shots. Even at 32-33T both courses were challenging and the feedback I got was very positive experience for most. We had 52 pre registered for our first GP and expect number will grow this year.

Sherwood Airgunners Match Director,
KeithWalters
 
@Kdog Per the 2025 GP points scoring method, there is an awarded (or penalized) 4 point spread between participating on a 28T course vs a 36T course.

Let's say you have a 28T course with 120 shots. Your top PCP Hunter shooter scores a 95/120. Since the shooter is top in PCP hunter, their score is the benchmark for the PCP hunter division in that match, so your top shooter earned 95/95 = 100%. Now, because the course was a 28T, subtract 4 points from the 100 - they score 96 GP points for the match.

Now consider a similar situation on a 36T course, let's say your top PCP hunter scored a 45/120. Percent of top score is 45/45, which is still 100%. But, since this is a 36T course, they receive no difficulty penalization, so they get to keep all 100 of their scored GP points.

The 36T course is always favored over any lesser difficulty course in the 2025 GP points scoring method. If your participants care about earning GP points, then they will only want to play on 36T courses.

Describing it a different way, every class/division winner will earn 100GP points on a 36T course. On a 34T course every class/division winner will earn 99GP points. On a 32T course every class/division winner will earn 98GP points. On a 30T course every class/division winner will earn 97GP points. And, on a 28T course every class/division winner will earn 96GP points. There is no way to earn 100GP points for an event unless you are playing on 36T courses.

So, it makes sense why a club running a GP event will want to set a 36T course, assuming you want the top shooters in the area/country to show up to your event. Anything less may not be worth attending if you are chasing GP points.
 
So if your aiming to please a few shooters that care about GP points than I see your point. Out of curiosity how many competitors do you get at your GP? Here in Ohio all the top shooters will attend our GP regardless of the Troyer rating. Being that there is such a great distance from clubs in the east most FT guys will attend a GP if it's within 4 hrs or so like we have here in Ohio. I believe there's a risk involved in setting courses too high and people not wanting to attend your event. I'm not willing to take that risk.
 
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@shootermeb, you are 100% correct on the targets under 1 1/2", I always forget about that pesky table!! I went to look at the min kz/max distance for forced positions and saw the limit for 1" and up to 1 1/2". I haven't pushed a target to its max allowed distance since 2019! And AAFTA has the course planner that makes life so much easier, I set the course once without the planner and i'll never do it again.




I think I have a course plan that will be as enjoyable to shoot as it can be given the location/conditions. We will have fewer long distance targets than last year and I figured a nifty way to help the shooters out for the distance shots in wind.

We don't get a lot of "local" GP's out west, the closest club match to me is between 3 and 4 hours of driving total, the closest GP match is over 10 hours total driving time. Some people are working towards the GP top scores and it seemed appropriate to host an event that allowed them to compete at the highest levels for scoring. With the new system each division gets 100% so the only thing to overcome is the fact that the scores in general will be depressed from the previous year. But we've had the same course for several years and the hit percentages swing wildly (+/- 10%) with the various degrees of wind year after year.
 
I'm on the fence about going. I've already got most of my vacation days allotted for the year.
You will have fond memories if you attend, it is a stunning location, great people and lots of things to shoot (steel from 25 to 1000 yards, crickets)...

We will have some prizes this year, sponsors are responding.

IMG_3673.jpg
 
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