• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

Course Design- Setting a 36T in the Wind

If shooters attend the same GP or multiple GPs (as is the desire of the GP series founders) the Troyer difficulty of that match doesn't matter, because only one shooter can get max points. If shooters don't want to have or cannot have face to face competitions, then the small 4-point max knockdown for course difficulty will come into play. The margin of success for the last 3 GP champions in Hunter and WFTF (the two largest classes) was less than 4-points only once. The top shooters competed against each other at least once as God intended to determine the winner.
 
I was planning to attend, but this discussion has dissuaded me from doing so. I have the budget, the time and the wife's permission, but I see no sense in going to a match that is going to be set for the sake of the GP points.
FT is a great sport all around the world, where the US plays an important role.
And the World's matches are not set like this.
If you look at a WFTC's layout, they are MOSTLY in the 28-29 T, and yet they are incredibly challenging. If you think I am crazy, look at the scores of the PCP USA shooters in Phoenix: Best places were 7, 8 and 9, and then we jump to 13, and from there to 20 (in a three way tie).
Why? Because the T is defined by long and longer shots. After all, there are only three KZ sizes and MOST targets need to be placed "out there".
Wind? Sure! hold-offs of 2 to 3 mRads (that's 4 inches at 55 yards) are a bit extreme, but not uncommon. Especially when there are orographic characteristics to the terrain (ravines, ridges, large rocks, etc) That is what makes a course interesting.

Clearly the way the Scoring System for the GP is setup is bonkers.

Playing along is even more bonkers.

JMHO



HM
 
If shooters attend the same GP or multiple GPs (as is the desire of the GP series founders) the Troyer difficulty of that match doesn't matter, because only one shooter can get max points. If shooters don't want to have or cannot have face to face competitions, then the small 4-point max knockdown for course difficulty will come into play. The margin of success for the last 3 GP champions in Hunter and WFTF (the two largest classes) was less than 4-points only once. The top shooters competed against each other at least once as God intended to determine the winner.
Jeff;
The founders of the GP had a "regional" (Southern, by the way) setup in mind.
It was never intended to be a National thing.
If you really want to stick to the original founder's intention, then there should be at least 4 GP's (one per region, whatever that is ), and then the National title should be shot at the Nationals as a special/separate event.

It will take fairly complicated course setup rules to get things to be truly fair and even. In the rest of the World, the GP's are made of a SET number of matches you need to attend, or you do not participate. I understand that the US is much bigger than most countries and so going to a match at every region may be too expensive.
So, it would be simpler to split the GP into 4 or 5 regional GP's where most of the dedicated shooters could attend, and then have something at the Nationals.

JMHO
 
Clearly the way the Scoring System for the GP is setup is bonkers.

Playing along is even more bonkers.
I agree and I have fought to correct it, but eventually had to let it go. I didn't play along last year and the western US area missed out on some GP points. I'm not in it for GP scores so for me it doesn't matter (I didn't even shoot the NV match last year), other folks are, so I have to take that into account.

Apart from shooting a lower score (which everyone who attends will do) you are at not advantage/disadvantage with this course at 36T as opposed to a 28T since all scores are now figured by Class/Division. Last year you would have been shooting your piston against the PCP scores and setting a 36T course would be brutal for the piston shooters in that case (one of many reasons why I did not change the course last year). Plus I have a few tricks at my disposal to help out on the longer into the wind shots.

I think your mention of regional GP's is a good idea, we had a Western GP for a while (two years maybe). Or you could have qualifying GP matches spread out across the US and now you have a springboard to a higher level of competition (other shooting sports have these), one where competitors can choose to shoot a full 36T course in whatever conditions the locale will offer if they want national standing. The other GP's become enjoyable events for experienced and unexperienced shooters alike. That turns the GP into something else then, but i'm not sure anyone knows what the GP is supposed to be currently.

PRS (Precision Rifle Series with powder burners) is a sport offering tens of thousands in prize purses plus multipliers of that in prize table items (said another way, a lot of reasons $$ for people to complain about the rules) has NO course set up rules other than:

"The majority of PRS stages should be challenging to even the most seasoned competitors. As a general guideline, the top score for most stages (and therefore the match) should be between 80-90% of the total available points. Matches in which the winner attains less than 85% of the points possible are not providing the shooters, especially newer ones, an opportunity to enjoy themselves."

This is the proper approach to keep and grow a sport. The sport is exploding in popularity and the cost of equipment makes the highest end airguns look cheap. We have charts and planners and...a big giant mess.

At Nevada the top scores for nearly the exact same 28T course, year after year have been:
2024 78.5%
2023 85.7%
2022 70.5%
2021 75.9%

Using the PRS metric even at a 28T the course is too difficult for new shooters to enjoy and overly challenging for seasoned competitors. Overlooking this issue will be problematic for this sport in the future.

I can only work within the current rules and the rules make more sense this year to set a 36T than they did last year so I need to give it a shot, in some way I feel like it is owed to the people who have said they are attending. Plus now we can claim unequivocally that we have the most difficult FT match in the universe!! LOL

In reality the thing that is currently hurting our attendance most is RMAC moving their event from Father's Day weekend to the one after. Shooters were using our match as a layover stop when headed to/from RMAC. To realign our event properly would mean moving it into May or July risking uncertain weather in either direction (thunderstorms in May, excessive heat in July). We may move the event for 2026, i'd really like to pick up the folks we had before and I know they would like to shoot the Nevada match.

Hector, if you want to come to Nevada i'll pay your registration fee out of my own pocket. You can camp on site, we will have a portable toilet and a hot shower and a full cooking set up for anyone who wants it. This is a once in a lifetime location to shoot, you have so many of those on your list, we would love to put our event on there with the others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PowderBurnt
So if your aiming to please a few shooters that care about GP points than I see your point. Out of curiosity how many competitors do you get at your GP? Here in Ohio all the top shooters will attend our GP regardless of the Troyer rating. Being that there is such a great distance from clubs in the east most FT guys will attend a GP if it's within 4 hrs or so like we have here in Ohio. I believe there's a risk involved in setting courses too high and people not wanting to attend your event. I'm not willing to take that risk.
I don't shoot field target but having competed in a run various matches for 50 years.....Your a smart guy. I hate matches ran by hero's, they never elevate the sport. Good luck, wish I lived a bit closer to your club.