I am new to air guns but always thought they would be fun. I bought the bottom line crosman fire. I have lots of guns so not new to shooting in general. After receiving the rifle I cleaned the barrel, switched out the scope for one off a 22 rifle I have, and purchased three types of pellets. In my initial shooting the gun shot at best a 3 inch group at 40 ft.. I made the assumption that as I shot it the accuracy would improve. I have now shot about 300 rounds through it. The more I shoot it the poorer he accuracy is. Now it is shooting a group of about 6 inches at 40 ft. I have checked the scope mounting, stock to frame screws, etc. and found all to be tight. The trigger pull is unchanged and in fact I am getting used to it and don't mind the creep so much anymore. With the current shot groups the gun is useless to me. I can't target shoot with it or hunt. Does anyone have any idea of what the problem is? I could have bought a better gun but even this cheap one should not be getting worse the more I shoot it. I enjoy the air gun and would like to have a accurate one but this is not it. Any advice would be appreciated.
Crosman Fire from Wal Mart
- Thread starter PennyPincher
- Start date
First thing I would do, and the same I do on expensive rifles:
Push a pellet through the bore from the breech to muzzle and take note of how it feels. It just slides straight through the muzzle with very little resistance, try bigger pellets. If you can't find one with somewhat decent fit, throw it away. If it feels like gravel, throw it away. If it's tight right at the breech and basically free falls from there past the muzzle, throw it away.
If it passes the above test, inspect the crown. It should be even and square to the bore. If it's not, cut a new crown. If it's not square, you can rub a brass screw and valve grinding compound till you are blue in the face and it will still not be square. You need a crown cutter and matching pilot, a lathe, or a hacksaw and some diligent and precise work with a file to cut the end off and file it square to the bore.
Finally I'd check the barrel lockup/tension. Cock the gun, and close the barrel. Pull on the barrel towards the muzzle and watch for movement at the breech. If it moves, that's real bad. Try tightening the tension bolt as a band-aid till you can check it further and see why it moves around. Some of them have plastic washers and will never have an accurate lockup.
Have fun tinkering on it, and I hope you can improve it. But don't give up on airguns. Spend a little more on the next one and you will likely really enjoy it. Cheap and breakbarrel are two words that are a recipe for disaster in my experience.
Push a pellet through the bore from the breech to muzzle and take note of how it feels. It just slides straight through the muzzle with very little resistance, try bigger pellets. If you can't find one with somewhat decent fit, throw it away. If it feels like gravel, throw it away. If it's tight right at the breech and basically free falls from there past the muzzle, throw it away.
If it passes the above test, inspect the crown. It should be even and square to the bore. If it's not, cut a new crown. If it's not square, you can rub a brass screw and valve grinding compound till you are blue in the face and it will still not be square. You need a crown cutter and matching pilot, a lathe, or a hacksaw and some diligent and precise work with a file to cut the end off and file it square to the bore.
Finally I'd check the barrel lockup/tension. Cock the gun, and close the barrel. Pull on the barrel towards the muzzle and watch for movement at the breech. If it moves, that's real bad. Try tightening the tension bolt as a band-aid till you can check it further and see why it moves around. Some of them have plastic washers and will never have an accurate lockup.
Have fun tinkering on it, and I hope you can improve it. But don't give up on airguns. Spend a little more on the next one and you will likely really enjoy it. Cheap and breakbarrel are two words that are a recipe for disaster in my experience.
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What kind of scope are you using? If it's the typical ones that come free with the rifle it probably belongs in the trash but if you're lucky and the scope is fine then you have to improve that terrible trigger by replacing the trigger adjustment screw with a longer one which is a rather typical quick fix that ought to keep you on target however that's optional if you're used to the trigger and you got good control. Next you shoulder the rifle as though you're holding a baby cradle loosely let the baby kick your shoulder the same way each and every time. Don't resist let her kick into you and cradle a little during that kick the same with all shots. Next assume this time around you're getting better groups you should try heavy pellets such as the Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 10.5gr or if you're lucky the 7.9gr Premier Hollowpoints and 7.4gr Premier pointed from Wal-Mart may do good and theres the H&N Barracuda pellets at 10.6gr. You want to try to shoot heavy pellets in your ultra magnum spring- ram gun to keep the velocity under 1000 feet per second never mind the 1200fps hype you're not going to get good enough accuracy shooting past 1000 fps. Also bear in mind theres a break in period maybe 300-500 shots before you see good improvement sometimes if youre lucky no need break in shots and it may just start shooting good. Good Luck. Yo!
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That Crosman Fire(f4) is actually not a crappy gun compared to others I don't want to mention and you should be capable of shooting dime to nickle sized groups at 20 yards once you find the right pellet and have enough break in shots and you get used to her. It can be rewarding to shoot that gun once you get the hang of it trust me. Yo!
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I just re read your post and perhaps that 22 scope isn't up to the thrashing of the Air gun if your accuracy is getting worse the more you shoot it or perhaps your scope mounts are loosening and or creeping rearward. Bear in mind your gun is capable of groups AT LEAST the size of an m&m (plain) or a cocoapuff at 10 yards. Yo!
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G
Guest
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Future Walmart air rifle consumers sale: “Crosman rifles come with free Cocoapuffs, pellets sold separately.”
Cocoapuffs is lucky to have you Yo, and golly you DO deserve employee of the month, even if those puff eaters don’t realize it. You’re just too good for them.
Cocoapuffs is lucky to have you Yo, and golly you DO deserve employee of the month, even if those puff eaters don’t realize it. You’re just too good for them.
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OK just had a cockoo for cocoapuffs moment there... What I meant to say was you should be able to hit a cocoapuff or a plain m&m with that Crosman Fire at 10 yards. Yo!
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Sounds like the only thing you have done is shoot more lead, and the accuracy has gotten worse, correct? I'd clean the barrel and see what's in there. Sounds like quite possibly an imperfection in the barrel that is "catching" lead as the pellet goes by. The more you shoot, the more building up, the worse the accuracy is.
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I will give these suggestions a try. As I mentioned this is my first air gun and I was enjoying it (until it lost it started shooting all over the place). Admittedly I am pretty disappointed in that I read on line and watched You Tube articles in which most people claim most of the airguns shoot accurately. I was initially pleased in that this gun looks well made with nice bluing, nicely designed stock, comfortable to sight. Sadly none of that makes up for the fact that I can only expect to keep three shots in a 6 inch circle. After checking the scope, the screws again, checking the barrel, etc. I will have to see if it is ok or just trash it and forget the whole air gun thing. I am leary of buying another one after the possible waste of money on this one. The only redeeming factor is that even mid level ones are realatively cheap. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I will post back after working on the gun to let you know how it turned out.
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PennyPincher -- I would hate to see you give up on airguns based on your 1st one not meeting your expectations.
Many of the suggestions have merit and are what I do with all spring/ram powered guns I get. Assuming the ram and seal are good shape one would think the amount of air generated to push the pellet is consistant give or take a little variance. With that in mind the most likely areas to look at is the scope, barrel, pellet fit to the bore, pellet design/weight, breech seal, and methods of holding the gun.
Most of the break barrel guns I've seen have the barrel press fit into the breech which reduces the bore diameter enough to notice when pushing a pellet thru the barrel from the breech end. In those cases once the pellet passes the breech area the pellet has room to move a little and if the barrel is not choked contines until the pellet exits the barrel. If it does have a choke then you would feel a slight amount of restriction when the pellet reaches that point (a good thing in my book). Too much choke can cause issues also but I haven't seen much of that from guns I've had.
If groups are more vertical than round, the barrel lockup and breech seal are suspect. A small piece of toilet paper over the breech seal will move when the gun is fired if it's not sealing properly. The barrel lockup can be affected by the breech seal also but if it's not a solid lockup closer inspection if the lockup may show the problem. I've never had an issue with a wedge type lockup but those ball bearing lockups have caused me problems on a few guns. My current HW30/R7 is very light but so far it's good.
The crown of the barrel needs to be clean and equally consistant. A close look using magnification is suggested when inspecting. Although I've never used a specialized tool made for cutting a good crown, I have had good results using the brass screw and cutting compound like JB bore paste.
Pellet design/weight makes a difference in any airgun I have owned or shot so it's a given that each gun will have a preference that may differ from an identical gun.
How a springer is held is important and much has been said as to what is preferred for accuracy but regardless of how it's held -- consistency is the goal. I've seen a big difference between shooting offhand (standing) and bench with the gun resting on something. My experience has shown what the foreend rests on and the location of the resting point can make a difference.
Because your accuracy is getting worse, my first suspect would be the scope. The majority of ram/spring based power plant airguns have the two way firing cycle and unless a scope is 'springer rated' it can/will fail at some point. Even a 'springer rated' scope can fail and just a couple years ago I had one fail on my favorite R9 in 177. It had held up for years but tryiing to sight in before hunting ground squirrels - I couldn't hit an 8x11 target paper at 45 yards. With that day ruined I went home and swapped scopes out -- problem solved.
Don't give up and I'm sure you will find a reason....
Many of the suggestions have merit and are what I do with all spring/ram powered guns I get. Assuming the ram and seal are good shape one would think the amount of air generated to push the pellet is consistant give or take a little variance. With that in mind the most likely areas to look at is the scope, barrel, pellet fit to the bore, pellet design/weight, breech seal, and methods of holding the gun.
Most of the break barrel guns I've seen have the barrel press fit into the breech which reduces the bore diameter enough to notice when pushing a pellet thru the barrel from the breech end. In those cases once the pellet passes the breech area the pellet has room to move a little and if the barrel is not choked contines until the pellet exits the barrel. If it does have a choke then you would feel a slight amount of restriction when the pellet reaches that point (a good thing in my book). Too much choke can cause issues also but I haven't seen much of that from guns I've had.
If groups are more vertical than round, the barrel lockup and breech seal are suspect. A small piece of toilet paper over the breech seal will move when the gun is fired if it's not sealing properly. The barrel lockup can be affected by the breech seal also but if it's not a solid lockup closer inspection if the lockup may show the problem. I've never had an issue with a wedge type lockup but those ball bearing lockups have caused me problems on a few guns. My current HW30/R7 is very light but so far it's good.
The crown of the barrel needs to be clean and equally consistant. A close look using magnification is suggested when inspecting. Although I've never used a specialized tool made for cutting a good crown, I have had good results using the brass screw and cutting compound like JB bore paste.
Pellet design/weight makes a difference in any airgun I have owned or shot so it's a given that each gun will have a preference that may differ from an identical gun.
How a springer is held is important and much has been said as to what is preferred for accuracy but regardless of how it's held -- consistency is the goal. I've seen a big difference between shooting offhand (standing) and bench with the gun resting on something. My experience has shown what the foreend rests on and the location of the resting point can make a difference.
Because your accuracy is getting worse, my first suspect would be the scope. The majority of ram/spring based power plant airguns have the two way firing cycle and unless a scope is 'springer rated' it can/will fail at some point. Even a 'springer rated' scope can fail and just a couple years ago I had one fail on my favorite R9 in 177. It had held up for years but tryiing to sight in before hunting ground squirrels - I couldn't hit an 8x11 target paper at 45 yards. With that day ruined I went home and swapped scopes out -- problem solved.
Don't give up and I'm sure you will find a reason....
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On entry level springers the first thing that I suspect is the scope. If your gun has open sights then I would suggest removing the scope and using the open sights. These often times are fiber optics that are surprisingly accurate. You don't need to shoot very far to diagnose the issue, 20 yards is plenty far. If your groups shrink compared to the scope then the scope is the issue. If they don't, then you know it's the gun itself that is the issue. Once you establish that then you can work towards the ultimate remedy.
Oops, I just looked up your model and it seems that it does not come with open sights so what I said above may not apply in your situation.
Oops, I just looked up your model and it seems that it does not come with open sights so what I said above may not apply in your situation.
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I'm not very mechanical in ability; but I'm capable of troubleshooting (having grown up with uncles who were dang good mechanics).
My first thought (and after all the responses) is the brand of pellet (first) and size of pellet (4.49, 4.50, 4.51 etc).
Pellets that don't fit well allow the escaping air to push them. This creates those disappointing groupings. You may have to buy and try several different pellets to figure this out. HOWEVER, the gun may simply take 2 or 3 tins to settle in: my Gamo did. Now, with the right sized pellet (8.64) I get fabulous results-- a dime at 13 yards; a quarter at 25 yards. For me, that's perfect for a tree rat eradication.
Nonetheless, lot's of great info in the above posts.
And, don't get discouraged. Joe Wayne Rhea, in one video, suggested that box store purchases work out well about 1 of 3 chances. But, there's plenty of group wisdom on the forum to help you transform "a pig's ear into a silk purse."
Of course, just my two cents,
Arch_E
My first thought (and after all the responses) is the brand of pellet (first) and size of pellet (4.49, 4.50, 4.51 etc).
Pellets that don't fit well allow the escaping air to push them. This creates those disappointing groupings. You may have to buy and try several different pellets to figure this out. HOWEVER, the gun may simply take 2 or 3 tins to settle in: my Gamo did. Now, with the right sized pellet (8.64) I get fabulous results-- a dime at 13 yards; a quarter at 25 yards. For me, that's perfect for a tree rat eradication.
Nonetheless, lot's of great info in the above posts.
And, don't get discouraged. Joe Wayne Rhea, in one video, suggested that box store purchases work out well about 1 of 3 chances. But, there's plenty of group wisdom on the forum to help you transform "a pig's ear into a silk purse."
Of course, just my two cents,
Arch_E
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As a result of the great suggestions I have throughly cleaned the barrel. In looking down it it looks clean and smooth with shining rifling. As suggested I also pushed three different brand and weight pellets through it. The feel is that for the first 1/2 to 1 " it is fairly tight but loosens up to be pushed through with light pressure. The feel is somewhat like the barrel is tapered starting tight and gradually getting looser. I have also checked the mount of the barrel to the receiver. It works smooth, latches crisply, and feels very solid with no discernable movement. I am shooting three weight pellets from light crosman premiers to some heavy gamo's. It is hard to tell if one is any better than the other as all of them won't hold a pattern any better than 6" at 40 ft. I will also practice a consistant hold of the rifle for tomorrow's shooting. I did not get time today but will tomorrow remove the scope and put a different one on the gun to see what if any effect it has. I am certainly working at figureing out if the gun is capable of shooting any reasonable pattern so all suggestions are appreciated and will be tried if I can. Thanks again.
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Totally something I would compare to. My kid loves those puff cereal with the dogs on the box (Paw Patrol).
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The fact is that this gun will not hit a golf ball at 30 ft.unless by accident. I shot 30 rounds off a rest with scope at 40 ft, and ended up with a pattern of evenly dispersed holes about four inches wide and 8 inches vertically. I doubt it would group enough to hit an m&m at any distance..
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Tighten stock screws, open up polish internals, relube, check piston seal for damage, recrown barrel, try different pellets and head sizes...
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If all else fails, just take it back to Walmart and get your money Say thank you and don’t look back.
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Wal-Mart has this real stupid no return policy on all airguns and airgun related items even if they're still brand new in their boxes never opened WITH RECEIPT THE NEXT DAY. Even if you get a defective gun you're instructed to go and deal with its manufacturer. Either too many people abused their gracious 90 day return policy with airguns for free rentals so Wal-Mart put their foot down or are just plain out go and rip people off due to sheer greed. Targets a better place to shop too bad no airguns and stuff. Yo!
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I think it might just be build quality. I had two Benjamin NP2s that were wildly inaccurate with all sorts of pellets. I think jsb monsters were alright but still had a lot of fliers. I took the np2 trail apart and the seal was messed up pretty bad. If you don’t deal with the manufacturer I’d just check the seals, do a basic clean and line job, maybe order new seals. Worst case, I think pyramid air or one of the big names still has refurb Gamo CFXs available for like 140 (found after I got a refurb CFR for 170 that had a bad spring and seals). Shoot that sucker and you’ll be hooked on underlevers IMO.
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SUCCESS STORY. In an effort to improve on a 6 inch shot group I received several recommendations. I followed the various recommendations from the forum by doing the following. I first switched out the scope from the good 3X9 I had on the gun to the cheapie that came with the rifle. Next I cleaned the barrel as good or better than I have ever cleaned a bore.The gun has had a total of about 300 rounds shot through it. The barrel rifling looked really good, clean and shinny. I took special care to really clean the area from the breech about 1" into the barrel. I did this because as I pushed a pellet through the barrel, as suggested, I found it tight the first inch and then fairly easy to push from there on. I assumed this area probably meant more in accuracy than any other area. I then checked and rechecked all the screws on the gun and scope mounts, I lubricated everything well. I then rezeroed the rifle. The photo I have attached pretty well speaks for itself. I shot it at exactly 45 ft. with three different pellets. Crosman alloy's at 10.? Then some Crosman lead round nose at 7.4 and then some gamo heavy pellets that I can't find the weight of. Between each of the patterns I did not readjust the gun or my sight picture. As you can see from the photo there was a massive difference between a 6 inch pattern the gun was shooting, with any pellet, to the pattern you see in the photo.
Thank you guys so much for the advice as it sure paid off.
Thank you guys so much for the advice as it sure paid off.
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