Current scope(s), Next scope, and Dream scope???

Hey, Steve.

You are right, as far as I am presently figuring. I have been ever leaning towards the 4.5-28x52 High Master. While the weight is a tad more than I want, it is right about where the ETR is, and some of the models are less (under 30 oz.) That’s not bad, especially considering what one is getting for a scope. A few too many people who are in the know are not thrilled with the glass on the 2.5-25 and the 3-24. Plus, for whatever reason, two people have told me that the parallax on the original 1.5-15 does not go down to a true 10 yards. This is not a dealbreaker, however. It’s the glass that I am mostly concerned with. A 12-yard parallax won’t affect me much at all.

So, after all this, right now I am looking at the 4.5-28 first, then either the 1.5-15 or the 1-10x24. Your comment that I may not be able to tell the difference in glass may be correct. Also, since I am only using this scope for short range, your issues with spotting hits won’t affect me. (But, at my age, details at distance are harder to make out, period.)
All that said, I still like the idea of having magnification for whatever reason, so the 4.5-28 is a lot of scope. It was the somewhat upper magnification range of the 2.5-25 that previously made it my first choice. I really don’t need 1 or 2 mag: it’s nice to have, sort of, for initial FoV, but I never shoot at my lowest presently available magnification ranges. Typically, I’d say I hang around the 8 or 10 mag range when pesting.

A member who lives close by, as the post above indicates, has offered to get together to allow me to look through his 1-10x24. This will give me, God willing, a good idea of what is, or what is not, going on with this scope and will be my first experience with March Glass. Finally. If the glass seems great to my eye, I may be able to live with the 10 mag. Gee. A year ago, I only had a Hawke Vantage 3-12x44; it worked fine, and I didn’t know the difference until I became a member and gained exposure to scopes. My interest back then was different airguns and not scopes.

I only have a .177 Crosman pistol, a 22. Marauder, and more recently, the 25. Crown Mk II Continuum. It’s on the Crown that the new scope will go.

Three related questions:
1. How do you like the glass on the 1-10?
2. Does the glass on the 1-10, to you, suffer from the drawbacks it does on the 1.5-15, 2.5-25, and the 3-24?
3. When you expressed your concern about the probably compromised IQ on the new 1.5-15, does this concern apply to the glass on the older 1-15? (This is overlap with question #2).

Oh. One more thing. Yes, I can still buy (and sell) other less-expensive scopes. I am always peeking around in various places. I have this hankering for a reticle that has an illuminated donut, a segmented donut, or even a half-circle, in the center. (If I ever got a certain March, one of the MTR reticles might do: the MTR 4 or 5; the dot in the 2 may be too small for me.) I believe the Helos comes with such a reticle. You’d know. There are lots of LPVOs with them. I may grab a Swampfox 1-10, or something like it. Ideally, I would like to buy maybe one more rifle—a Dreamline, a Crown, or whatever—and have the March 4.5-28 on one and a very light LPVO on the other. The Classifieds nearly always feature good deals on good guns, and that includes right now.

Thanks a ton, Steve.
S7
 
I am interested in this answer too. S7
By the way, I also have the SFP 1-10x24 Compact. It's really the only premium scope I've looked through so I can't compare it to much else. Like others, mine focuses to extremely close ranges on 10x. When in a tripod I can read a book from maybe 7-8 feet away. I haven't checked for actual parallax error at that distance. Might have to do that since I'm snowed in today.
 
By the way, I also have the SFP 1-10x24 Compact. It's really the only premium scope I've looked through so I can't compare it to much else. Like others, mine focuses to extremely close ranges on 10x. When in a tripod I can read a book from maybe 7-8 feet away. I haven't checked for actual parallax error at that distance. Might have to do that since I'm snowed in today.
I appreciate the data, Scouty. I copy on the snow. That focusing/parallaxing with this model is striking. Now you are the third person to point this out. This feature alone makes this scope appealing to me because some of my sniping pesting is at very close range.
Okay, you are like me (but actually are ahead of me a bit, since you do have a March), and don't have lots of high-end scope experience. So, how do you like it as is, and how do you like it IQ-wise compared to any other scopes you may own? And I am very curious as to what model and reticle you have.
Thanks. S7
 
I appreciate the data, Scouty. I copy on the snow. That focusing/parallaxing with this model is striking. Now you are the third person to point this out. This feature alone makes this scope appealing to me because some of my sniping pesting is at very close range.
Okay, you are like me (but actually are ahead of me a bit, since you do have a March), and don't have lots of high-end scope experience. So, how do you like it as is, and how do you like it IQ-wise compared to any other scopes you may own? And I am very curious as to what model and reticle you have.
Thanks. S7

I had a longer reply started but my phone started acting up.

I do have one other premium scope - a Dedal Stalker 6x. I'm a bit tentative to describe the March since I have vestibular issues that affect my vision. In fact I bought the March to see if it would help so I've only used the March since these symptoms started. The Dedal I have had since before my issues started.

But I can at least compare them on 6x.

The March has better glass and a slightly bigger FOV.

The Dedal has the much better eye box and a more forgiving depth of field. Of course a forgiving depth of field can be good or bad depending on perspective. I'm certain the March could be used for accurate ranging, for example. In fact I think one YouTube review shows this.

I should really emphasize that my vision changes nearly constantly. My issues with the depth of field on the March are probably exaggerated by this.
 
I had a longer reply started but my phone started acting up.

I do have one other premium scope - a Dedal Stalker 6x. I'm a bit tentative to describe the March since I have vestibular issues that affect my vision. In fact I bought the March to see if it would help so I've only used the March since these symptoms started. The Dedal I have had since before my issues started.

But I can at least compare them on 6x.

The March has better glass and a slightly bigger FOV.

The Dedal has the much better eye box and a more forgiving depth of field. Of course a forgiving depth of field can be good or bad depending on perspective. I'm certain the March could be used for accurate ranging, for example. In fact I think one YouTube review shows this.

I should really emphasize that my vision changes nearly constantly. My issues with the depth of field on the March are probably exaggerated by this.
First, I am sorry for your vestibular issues. I looked this up as I did not know what it was. May God have mercy on you. It so happens I have something going in in my inner ear too.

Second, thank you for the information. I understand your hesitance to comment on DoF, but you wouldn’t be the first to mention March’s inadequacy in this area, as well as the tighter eye box.

I need to get behind one so I can judge for myself if these two matters would bother me. If I am not mistaken—and you may know more about this than me—these two limitations are due to the high magnification range and compact size March provides. I am still learning, so I may be incorrect.
Take care.
S7
 
My understanding is that the biggest factor on depth of field is objective lens size - the larger the tighter the depth of field.

Then length with shorter scopes have a tighter depth of field than longer scopes.

I believe Koshkin/DLO has also said FFP scopes have a tighter depth of field than SFP scopes. I should have bookmarked that post he made.

I believe the above three traits is why there is some concern about the newly released 1.5-15x42 DFP/FFP March.

[EDIT] Forgot about erector ratio. Believe that larger erector ranges make depth of field worse. Steve will know more about that.

Eye box I'm not quite as clear about. For sure exit pupil increases as objective lens diameter increases but not sure how length & erector ratio affect this.
 
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Don't know how I forgot to mention this. My vestibular issues cause both my eyes to go into oscillopsia/nystagmus. My dominant shooting eye ticks back & forth with every heartbeat. That's my baseline condition. It gets worse but that eye is constantly moving as my vestibular system tries to determine what position I'm in.

I assume this is a huge contribution to my issues with eyebox since my dominant eye is constantly moving back & forth.

This is different from the intermittent blurriness I get that I suspect makes me not care for a tight depth of field.

Like you said, you need to get behind one & see. Chances are you won't be as sensitive to these things as I am.
 
My understanding is that the biggest factor on depth of field is objective lens size - the larger the tighter the depth of field.

Then length with shorter scopes have a tighter depth of field than longer scopes.

I believe Koshkin/DLO has also said FFP scopes have a tighter depth of field than SFP scopes. I should have bookmarked that post he made.

I believe the above three traits is why there is some concern about the newly released 1.5-15x42 DFP/FFP March.

Eye box I'm not quite as clear about. For sure exit pupil increases as objective lens diameter increases but not sure how length & erector ratio affect this.
That helps. Thanks. I’ll be on the lookout for people like Koshkin referencing this matter. S7
 
Hey, Steve.

You are right, as far as I am presently figuring. I have been ever leaning towards the 4.5-28x52 High Master. While the weight is a tad more than I want, it is right about where the ETR is, and some of the models are less (under 30 oz.) That’s not bad, especially considering what one is getting for a scope. A few too many people who are in the know are not thrilled with the glass on the 2.5-25 and the 3-24. Plus, for whatever reason, two people have told me that the parallax on the original 1.5-15 does not go down to a true 10 yards. This is not a dealbreaker, however. It’s the glass that I am mostly concerned with. A 12-yard parallax won’t affect me much at all.

So, after all this, right now I am looking at the 4.5-28 first, then either the 1.5-15 or the 1-10x24. Your comment that I may not be able to tell the difference in glass may be correct. Also, since I am only using this scope for short range, your issues with spotting hits won’t affect me. (But, at my age, details at distance are harder to make out, period.)
All that said, I still like the idea of having magnification for whatever reason, so the 4.5-28 is a lot of scope. It was the somewhat upper magnification range of the 2.5-25 that previously made it my first choice. I really don’t need 1 or 2 mag: it’s nice to have, sort of, for initial FoV, but I never shoot at my lowest presently available magnification ranges. Typically, I’d say I hang around the 8 or 10 mag range when pesting.

A member who lives close by, as the post above indicates, has offered to get together to allow me to look through his 1-10x24. This will give me, God willing, a good idea of what is, or what is not, going on with this scope and will be my first experience with March Glass. Finally. If the glass seems great to my eye, I may be able to live with the 10 mag. Gee. A year ago, I only had a Hawke Vantage 3-12x44; it worked fine, and I didn’t know the difference until I became a member and gained exposure to scopes. My interest back then was different airguns and not scopes.

I only have a .177 Crosman pistol, a 22. Marauder, and more recently, the 25. Crown Mk II Continuum. It’s on the Crown that the new scope will go.

Three related questions:
1. How do you like the glass on the 1-10?
2. Does the glass on the 1-10, to you, suffer from the drawbacks it does on the 1.5-15, 2.5-25, and the 3-24?
3. When you expressed your concern about the probably compromised IQ on the new 1.5-15, does this concern apply to the glass on the older 1-15? (This is overlap with question #2).

Oh. One more thing. Yes, I can still buy (and sell) other less-expensive scopes. I am always peeking around in various places. I have this hankering for a reticle that has an illuminated donut, a segmented donut, or even a half-circle, in the center. (If I ever got a certain March, one of the MTR reticles might do: the MTR 4 or 5; the dot in the 2 may be too small for me.) I believe the Helos comes with such a reticle. You’d know. There are lots of LPVOs with them. I may grab a Swampfox 1-10, or something like it. Ideally, I would like to buy maybe one more rifle—a Dreamline, a Crown, or whatever—and have the March 4.5-28 on one and a very light LPVO on the other. The Classifieds nearly always feature good deals on good guns, and that includes right now.

Thanks a ton, Steve.

It's just conjecture on my part about either of those March 1-15's??? Neither of us won't know until we try but - short scopes and high mag ratios....

I spent about 10 minutes behind my Cronus G2 4.5-29x56 and my DFP 1-10 for a comparison on snow, brush, and a fence, both on 10x at 25Y. The Cronus gives a slightly brighter visual, is slightly more crisp, and easier to dial in the IQ. The reticle is not easy to see on 4.5x, barely acceptable to me for most purposes on 10x, and it doesn't come into what I would use for dynamic shooting until 13x or so = FFP

The reticle in the 1-10 is great for anything I would use this scope for, the scope in general has much to like in most other ways, but the glass to me is nice but not great.
I didn't try it but if I used either my S&B 5-25 or my Genesis 4-40 on 10x to compare the difference in IQ would be superior to the Cronus which I've tested side by side before.
If I compared my Zeiss HT 10x42 binos it would blow them all away in IQ if the scopes were on 10x.

I would think the March 4.5-28 would be superior in IQ to my Cronus G2 and close to my S&B. I wonder which reticle that is available for this March is the thickest?
 
It's just conjecture on my part about either of those March 1-15's??? Neither of us won't know until we try but - short scopes and high mag ratios....

I spent about 10 minutes behind my Cronus G2 4.5-29x56 and my DFP 1-10 for a comparison on snow, brush, and a fence, both on 10x at 25Y. The Cronus gives a slightly brighter visual, is slightly more crisp, and easier to dial in the IQ. The reticle is not easy to see on 4.5x, barely acceptable to me for most purposes on 10x, and it doesn't come into what I would use for dynamic shooting until 13x or so = FFP

The reticle in the 1-10 is great for anything I would use this scope for, the scope in general has much to like in most other ways, but the glass to me is nice but not great.
I didn't try it but if I used either my S&B 5-25 or my Genesis 4-40 on 10x to compare the difference in IQ would be superior to the Cronus which I've tested side by side before.
If I compared my Zeiss HT 10x42 binos it would blow them all away in IQ if the scopes were on 10x.

I would think the March 4.5-28 would be superior in IQ to my Cronus G2 and close to my S&B. I wonder which reticle that is available for this March is the thickest?
I copy on the 1-15s. You're right. The eye is the determiner, at least for the individual.

By the way, I have not heard one bad thing about the Cronus by anyone to date. Ilya places the glass slightly above that of the ETR. Only the weight and parallax have caused me to not consider it, or I would probably own it.

I have a pair of Zeiss 8x40 T binos that I bought about ten years ago. I don't know how they stack up to yours, which are, I assume, a newer model and perhaps much better, but they are good.

The comment on the 1-10's glass is helpful. It's also consistent with what I am hearing from you about some of the other March scopes.

I re-looked at the four reticles available for the 4.5-28. Two of these FML reticles (PDK and LDK) have a .05 mil center dot, while two (TR1 and the 3) have a .075 mil center dot, which is larger. The entire center area seems more eye-friendly. It is hard from me to make out some of the details on March's website: the pictures are not crystal clear, but the latter two reticles look like they would be easier to use on lower magnifications.
I am sure you can read these things better than I can. Here's the link for convenience: https://marchscopes.com/first-focal-plane-reticles/

Are you thinking about buying a 4.5-28? :)

Thanks for all.
S7
 
I copy on the 1-15s. You're right. The eye is the determiner, at least for the individual.

By the way, I have not heard one bad thing about the Cronus by anyone to date. Ilya places the glass slightly above that of the ETR. Only the weight and parallax have caused me to not consider it, or I would probably own it.

I have a pair of Zeiss 8x40 T binos that I bought about ten years ago. I don't know how they stack up to yours, which are, I assume, a newer model and perhaps much better, but they are good.

The comment on the 1-10's glass is helpful. It's also consistent with what I am hearing from you about some of the other March scopes.

I re-looked at the four reticles available for the 4.5-28. Two of these FML reticles (PDK and LDK) have a .05 mil center dot, while two (TR1 and the 3) have a .075 mil center dot, which is larger. The entire center area seems more eye-friendly. It is hard from me to make out some of the details on March's website: the pictures are not crystal clear, but the latter two reticles look like they would be easier to use on lower magnifications.
I am sure you can read these things better than I can. Here's the link for convenience: https://marchscopes.com/first-focal-plane-reticles/

Are you thinking about buying a 4.5-28? :)

Thanks for all.
S7

Nah, at least not at the moment.

I'd get one of those TR reticles. I have the TR3 on the genesis which is fine because I dial that scope mostly. I had the TR1 on the 5-42 and liked it slightly better but I would holdover more with that scope.
 
Copy.
Did I get you a bunch of redundant data, which is what I feared? S7
No, I hadn't looked into all the reticles March has for the 4.5-28. Except for Benchrest I prefer thicker reticles especially for FFP scopes nowadays. Plus my eyes aren't that great either since I'm 62 years old. I'd probably feel differently if I were young but I learned I can't shoot any better with thin reticles anyway for any kind of shooting I do, as well my guns aren't precise enough to take advantage of it.
For Benchrest it's easier to see where I hit if the reticle is simple and also I'm looking at white cardstock most of the time aiming off for wind.

Those TR reticles are some of my favorite all around reticles. I prefer reference in the reticle in .2 hash's for shooting at steel which is most of the shooting I do.
 
No, I hadn't looked into all the reticles March has for the 4.5-28. Except for Benchrest I prefer thicker reticles especially for FFP scopes nowadays. Plus my eyes aren't that great either since I'm 62 years old. I'd probably feel differently if I were young but I learned I can't shoot any better with thin reticles anyway for any kind of shooting I do, as well my guns aren't precise enough to take advantage of it.
For Benchrest it's easier to see where I hit if the reticle is simple and also I'm looking at white cardstock most of the time aiming off for wind.

Those TR reticles are some of my favorite all around reticles. I prefer reference in the reticle in .2 hash's for shooting at steel which is most of the shooting I do.
Steve,

As I was just looking, the thickest reticle for the 4.5-28 may be the FML-PDKI? It has a .1 mil center dot and .07 major lines, I believe, as opposed to the .06 lines of the FML-TR1 and FML-3. (It has .2 mil hash lines too.) I am not sure how helpful these differences are, or if this reticle is your cup of tea.
In case you have not seen this one, here's the link for convenience: https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d28hv52wfimlx/

My eyes are still pretty good, but certainly not what they used to be. S7
 
Steve,

As I was just looking, the thickest reticle for the 4.5-28 may be the FML-PDKI? It has a .1 mil center dot and .07 major lines, I believe, as opposed to the .06 lines of the FML-TR1 and FML-3. (It has .2 mil hash lines too.) I am not sure how helpful these differences are, or if this reticle is your cup of tea.
In case you have not seen this one, here's the link for convenience: https://marchscopes.com/scopes/d28hv52wfimlx/

My eyes are still pretty good, but certainly not what they used to be. S7
Fantastic!

That'll solve the low magnification FFP dilemma for the most part.
 
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