Daystate Daystate Alpha/Delta Wolf groups, tunes and photos.

[engfred]

Hi DW AW fans
Here you are - I spent the hole evening writing and gathering infor for making custom Factory mode settings to your Delta / Alpha wolf.
Be aware that this is based on my Delta wolf .177 HP with 600 mm barrel - opened transfer port, and pin probe.
If you have a .22 or .25 version do not feel lost you just have to find the Pulse and voltage values which takes you from low FPE up to max FPE you can get out of your rifle.

Links to fresh made instructions and my configuration file here: Delta-AlphaWolf

Feel free to ask questions guys ----- Lets shake that Daystate Tree .......

Best regards from Denmark

Claus

 

[tegridy]

Hi DW AW fans
Here you are - I spent the hole evening writing and gathering infor for making custom Factory mode settings to your Delta / Alpha wolf.
Be aware that this is based on my Delta wolf .177 HP with 600 mm barrel - opened transfer port, and pin probe.
If you have a .22 or .25 version do not feel lost you just have to find the Pulse and voltage values which takes you from low FPE up to max FPE you can get out of your rifle.

Links to fresh made instructions and my configuration file here: Delta-AlphaWolf

Feel free to ask questions guys ----- Lets shake that Daystate Tree .......

Best regards from Denmark

Claus

Thanks. Saving this for when I get mine

 

[Trucker3573]

Ok just began messing with my DW. I want to preface that I have no idea how the efficiency is at any settings as I’m to early into this. My goal is to run lower reg pressures if possible as the recommended ones are higher than I like running. Mine is a .25 hp. I started with the reg at 130 and ran the factory setting with 33.95 seeking 875 fps. If I remember correctly I was able to achieve like 860 fps. I then switched to the pre set advanced setting for 34 gr. The recommended reg was 170 bar. I shot it at 130 and only got 800 fps not even close to the 860 in factory. I assume their thought process was a short pulse at a high reg pressure to get speed. Maybe this is a better approach but I don’t want to run 170 when I can hit my target with much lower as indicated from using the factory mode. I then bumped the reg to 145. The pre programmed advanced setting for 34 gr was 2900 and 78 volts. I decided to bump it to 3200 and 84 V. This produced high 880’s to 890 fps. Accuracy seemed good at 50. I then bumped it to 3200 and 81 V. Didn’t change much….mid 880. Then dropped to 78 V and got the low 880’s. Now I plan to adjust the first number (dwell) as low as possible to stay in 880’s. Does this seem ballpark to experienced users ?? To summarize right now I’m at :

Dwell : 3200
Volt : 78
Reg: 144
Speed: low 880 fps

Thinking of ending somewhere in the 3100-3200 at 78 V. I was concentrating mostly on velocity today shooting off just a bipod with no rear rest. The accuracy given the setup seemed pretty solid. The final step will be to see if this area of setting seems to be air efficient or not.

 

[Arzrover]

Dwell : 3200
Volt : 78
Reg: 144
Speed: low 880 fps

Thinking of ending somewhere in the 3100-3200 at 78 V. I was concentrating mostly on velocity today shooting off just a bipod with no rear rest. The accuracy given the setup seemed pretty solid. The final step will be to see if this area of setting seems to be air efficient or not.

This seems about right to me...
The factory recommended pressure is intended to cover a huge range of projectiles and velocities... It is not necessarily optimum. A little higher pressure than the minimum that gives the velocity you're desiring should result in a little crisper cycle and more efficiency but MAY have first shot slightly low velocity. Mine is typically about 10 fps slower for first shot and I'm good with that as it is still on the mark at 50...

 

[Macloaded]

That is pretty much were I ended up. I have the regulator at 140bar and it can shoot the Mark 1 heavies at 900ftps. I tend to run them at 890ftps as I get slightly better results. 140bar also enables me to push the standard kings at 920ftps with room to spare.

In my experience daystate rifles (electric and mechanical) prefer a higher reg pressure compared to fx.

 

[cavedweller]

That is pretty much were I ended up. I have the regulator at 140bar and it can shoot the Mark 1 heavies at 900ftps. I tend to run them at 890ftps as I get slightly better results. 140bar also enables me to push the standard kings at 920ftps with room to spare.

In my experience daystate rifles (electric and mechanical) prefer a higher reg pressure compared to fx.

I’m wondering why the daystates like a higher reg pressure???

 

[Arzrover]

I’m wondering why the daystates like a higher reg pressure???

Been explained many times...
They do not make huge transfer ports... instead go the smaller route for better shot to shot regulation PLUS the Ghost and Wolf variants are trying to cover a LARGE range of energy with one reg setting... it's not necessarily the best tune but you CAN tune them more selectively if desired.
Airguns are a collection of tradeoffs... sometimes you give up one thing to get something else...
Bob

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Had a lot of trouble with my AW and the second replacement was much the same, so ended up doing a lot of work to it.

 

[msg1979]

Had a lot of trouble with my AW and the second replacement was much the same, so ended up doing a lot of work to it.

Which trouble? Just curiosity

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Which trouble? Just curiosity

Accuracy, the first was replaced, and the second was a little better, but rather than send it back for yet another I polished the barrel well and recrowned it and ended up doing a fair few mods to the gun, but now it shoots very well.

 

[Trucker3573]

Accuracy, the first was replaced, and the second was a little better, but rather than send it back for yet another I polished the barrel well and recrowned it and ended up doing a fair few mods to the gun, but now it shoots very well.

Yeah it seems the daystate barrel issue is a thing ? I’ve read about many with accuracy issues which is flat out sad beyond belief. I mean how many under 500 dollar China guns are incredibly accurate and consistently across the guns they produce. Then again the fact a user might want a convenient way to shut an electronic gun off slipped by the highly educated engineers at daystate. That is laughable….and for years. Not like they haven’t had time to do something? Or maybe I’m just weird and don’t like going into the settings to adjust the auto time out every time I start shooting and every time I end a shooting session. Yes whining but I actually love my gun and thankfully it has a good barrel. Had I read about the barrel issues sooner there isn’t a chance on earth I would have bought one used like I did.

 

[engfred]

This is what I call Daystate Wolf Redtube ;-)

Inspired with the measurements from the BRK Ghost air stripper.

Delta Wolf .177 HP 600 mm ART barrel - 158 bar - Zan 20 gr. 890 fps - 190 meter - (Very little wind)
Opened transferport - ø1.5 mm Pinprobe - All DIY

 

[Arzrover]

Very nice @engfred...
Imho you've gone straight to the heart of accuracy issues with them. I machined my own but no pics on hand. Was quite a complicated bit of machining for me. The valve isn't very efficient and forcing all the excess air through the chrono tube causes quite a bit of stability trouble. The barrel support mod and tensioned barrel are marketing ploys to me. I've tested my barrel's return to zero carefully and can find no evidence of problem there and the size of barrel coupled with the support should have no problems with harmonics. I've related my findings but nothing became of it.
I could go on but just wanted to say good work
Bob

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Yeah it seems the daystate barrel issue is a thing ? I’ve read about many with accuracy issues which is flat out sad beyond belief. I mean how many under 500 dollar China guns are incredibly accurate and consistently across the guns they produce. Then again the fact a user might want a convenient way to shut an electronic gun off slipped by the highly educated engineers at daystate. That is laughable….and for years. Not like they haven’t had time to do something? Or maybe I’m just weird and don’t like going into the settings to adjust the auto time out every time I start shooting and every time I end a shooting session. Yes whining but I actually love my gun and thankfully it has a good barrel. Had I read about the barrel issues sooner there isn’t a chance on earth I would have bought one used like I did.

Yes I know just what you mean I have a Kral and a Reximex that will both out shoot my FTP900, my Alpha Wolf and my new Epoch and they cost just a 1/4 to 1/5th of the other's price, OK sure I have done a fair bit of work to them, but they were accurate before that.

It seems to me the bigger the company, the less they care! I feel like I have HAD to do more work on the expensive guns to get them to shoot how they should.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

This is what I call Daystate Wolf Redtube ;-)

Inspired with the measurements from the BRK Ghost air stripper.

View attachment 530836
View attachment 530837
View attachment 530838
View attachment 530839
View attachment 530840View attachment 530842
View attachment 530843
View attachment 530844View attachment 530845

View attachment 530847
Delta Wolf .177 HP 600 mm ART barrel - 158 bar - Zan 20 gr. 890 fps - 190 meter - (Very little wind)
Opened transferport - ø1.5 mm Pinprobe - All DIY

Can I ask what the reason for the incorporated internal stripper? Did you have accuracy problems with the std setup?

I found that if I added a moderator to the STD shroud I got POI shift and not through clipping which lead me to develop my silenced over shroud which solved my problem, I also ended up making a barrel clamp after talking to an Indian gentleman who made one and this was before Daystate decided to make their own however while they are probably worth it with FAC and a long barrel it's not worth it for the sub 12 version.

 

[msg1979]

Accuracy, the first was replaced, and the second was a little better, but rather than send it back for yet another I polished the barrel well and recrowned it and ended up doing a fair few mods to the gun, but now it shoots very well.

Ok. Which other mods?
I think all manufacturer can have these problems. I have only had problems with FX. My .177 BRK and DW performance are both super well build and very high qualiy. The BRK is super precise. Havent been shooting the dw enough yet to know. Only issue is that the marketing for both isnt quite right.
The BRK HP had the heavy spring installed from factory - so no wheel tuning (like marketing says) no matter how high the reg was set. Its now solved with another spring. The DW perf. only comes with 2 pellets pre installed in factory set so the state of the art software can only be used with those 2 pellets (marketing says "put in pellet - set fps - shoot") It will be solved with a dtd cable and programming due to Engfreds guide in here. When thats done im pretty sure that the dw will be top tier! It also need a pin probe to open up power fully. There are some good guys/shooters in DK that have solved the above. Without their knowledge I would not know what to do.
I hope Daystate in time will make this. But when paying so much money for a rifle especially the factory sets should have been done from factory. I hope they will add them in time so new buyers will get them in the rifle.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

You have to bare in mind I am in the UK and limited to 12ftlb so anything that can be done to improve efficiency and accuracy is paramount, so during, and after I sorted the barrel I then made a pin probe as with the STD set up the STD probe did not fully engage the complete pellet in the rifling, I then made the barrel clamp, I also turned down the reg pressure to 80bar and luckily a friend told me how to unlock the full software IE FAC which I then reprogrammed it to the two pellets I use so it couldn't go over the sub 12 rule, I also made a plenum plug as the STD plenum is rather large and causes the reg to be slow in recovery, aside from that I just did some cosmetic mods.

 

[engfred]

Custom converted original pipe shaped Pellet probes to ø1.5 mm Ultra Pin-propes.
The ø1.5 pin is to utilizing full area air-flow, corresponding to the opened Transfer ports area that was gained from opening the port from ø3.2 mm hole to oblong holes 3.5 x 5.5 mm. That matters and its like the hard roof on fpe is raised considerable.

And Tricky-Dicky Awesome name...
My Delta Wolf is a second hand rifle and one of the earlier models. I experienced not the same accuracy as my shooting budy Soren Drost. He har one of the earliest DW and a newer AW. The earlier models were supplied with a Chronograph holder in Nylon or POM without any airstripper integrated. He later got an updated holder manufactured Aluminium now with Airstripper included. Before christmas I designed my Gen. 1 holder with airstripper - where the gap between the barrels Crown and the air stripper edge was approx. 6.5 mm apart. This was to get approx. the length of a Knockout 13.43 slug 6.2mm. The hole inside was a aluminium pipe ø8 mm outside with an internal hole of 6.5 mm.
But I had been looking at photos comparing Daystates plastic types without airstrippers to the new including airstripper. The new one looked much longer.
So when i designed gen 1 i made it 5 mm longer - believing i had plenty of space in the shroud.......... Daaaaam. So now when I test fitted the shroud gen. 1 was exactly 5 mm too long. I Did modification to try the gen1. anyway and found it helped a lot with accuracy.

I redesigned and found a found a way to shorten the holder / stripper -5 mm without losing any functions . Tested and worked well too.

Then Soren and I was in the workshop where I machined a lot of DW - AW - Ghost barrel transfer ports, and when we took the Ghost apart I saw the air stripper. Immediately in my mind i found the design to look technical optimal. 18 mm between the barrels crown and to the edge of the airstripper. And the hole inside was only ø5 mm for a 4.5 mm pellet / slug.

So back to the 3d design and integrate the new knowledge - This time knew that it would be 18 mm too long. During assembly I discovered that the cable was 10 mm too short when the chronograph circuit board would be pushed forward. So had to design a 18 mm adaptor / spacer with gold pins to extend the plug connection from barrel to rifle. Urgent since i should meet with Soren next morning to test shoot. I did not want to cut the very tiny cable and extend it before i test shooted the rifle and have proof of concept. But it worked very well - so I ordered a new carbon fiber pipe and will extend the Shroud so it can hold the extended (+18 mm Chronograph holder with airstripper Gen3) and also space for a 700 mm barrel that will be installed later.

So accuracy problems - Hmm before it was still more accurate than my FX Crown gen1.
But now it is way more accurate.
Indoors with pellets i shoot 24 pellets through one single hole at 50 yards - and i can now do that all day long.
Before my DIY chronograph holders with airstripper a numbers of fliers would ruin that.

As soon as the first flier appears I shoot a couple of felt cleaners with a pellet behind - and accuracy is immediately back.

The original pellet probes - I cut the pipe away and drill a 1.5 mm hole in a lathe.

Under Here finished probes - I use the shaft of a 1.5 mm HSS drill bit - with Cyanochrolate instant glue. And polishing afterwards

 

[msg1979]

Custom converted original pipe shaped Pellet probes to ø1.5 mm Ultra Pin-propes.
The ø1.5 pin is to utilizing full area air-flow, corresponding to the opened Transfer ports area that was gained from opening the port from ø3.2 mm hole to oblong holes 3.5 x 5.5 mm. That matters and its like the hard roof on fpe is raised considerable.

And Tricky-Dicky Awesome name...
My Delta Wolf is a second hand rifle and one of the earlier models. I experienced not the same accuracy as my shooting budy Soren Drost. He har one of the earliest DW and a newer AW. The earlier models were supplied with a Chronograph holder in Nylon or POM without any airstripper integrated. He later got an updated holder manufactured Aluminium now with Airstripper included. Before christmas I designed my Gen. 1 holder with airstripper - where the gap between the barrels Crown and the air stripper edge was approx. 6.5 mm apart. This was to get approx. the length of a Knockout 13.43 slug 6.2mm. The hole inside was a aluminium pipe ø8 mm outside with an internal hole of 6.5 mm.
But I had been looking at photos comparing Daystates plastic types without airstrippers to the new including airstripper. The new one looked much longer.
So when i designed gen 1 i made it 5 mm longer - believing i had plenty of space in the shroud.......... Daaaaam. So now when I test fitted the shroud gen. 1 was exactly 5 mm too long. I Did modification to try the gen1. anyway and found it helped a lot with accuracy.

I redesigned and found a found a way to shorten the holder / stripper -5 mm without losing any functions . Tested and worked well too.

Then Soren and I was in the workshop where I machined a lot of DW - AW - Ghost barrel transfer ports, and when we took the Ghost apart I saw the air stripper. Immediately in my mind i found the design to look technical optimal. 18 mm between the barrels crown and to the edge of the airstripper. And the hole inside was only ø5 mm for a 4.5 mm pellet / slug.

So back to the 3d design and integrate the new knowledge - This time knew that it would be 18 mm too long. During assembly I discovered that the cable was 10 mm too short when the chronograph circuit board would be pushed forward. So had to design a 18 mm adaptor / spacer with gold pins to extend the plug connection from barrel to rifle. Urgent since i should meet with Soren next morning to test shoot. I did not want to cut the very tiny cable and extend it before i test shooted the rifle and have proof of concept. But it worked very well - so I ordered a new carbon fiber pipe and will extend the Shroud so it can hold the extended (+18 mm Chronograph holder with airstripper Gen3) and also space for a 700 mm barrel that will be installed later.

So accuracy problems - Hmm before it was still more accurate than my FX Crown gen1.
But now it is way more accurate.
Indoors with pellets i shoot 24 pellets through one single hole at 50 yards - and i can now do that all day long.
Before my DIY chronograph holders with airstripper a numbers of fliers would ruin that.

As soon as the first flier appears I shoot a couple of felt cleaners with a pellet behind - and accuracy is immediately back.

The original pellet probes - I cut the pipe away and drill a 1.5 mm hole in a lathe.
View attachment 531353
Under Here finished probes - I use the shaft of a 1.5 mm HSS drill bit - with Cyanochrolate instant glue. And polishing afterwards

View attachment 531351View attachment 531352

How does your Chrono/stripper design compare / differ to the newest Daystate alu design?

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Very interesting @engfred, like me, you obviously feel a need to improve on the STD design of most guns, There is a lot crammed into the shroud on the AW/DW ! so i may have a look into trying to improve that myself as mine is certainly not as accurate, but I think the barrel is still the main culprit.
The pin probe for the .177 AW is definitely needed, I know DS used one on the .22 not sure about the larger calibres, can't figure out quite why the did that.

My AW is a June 23 gun not sure which chrono carrier it has but it's definitely polymer of some sort.