Daystate Daystate Alpha Wolf 22cal velocity issue

[billking]

I own an Alpha wolf almost a year.
I have an issue with velocity.

I choose for example 22CAL 18.13grain 23"Barrel and 900 fps and the rifle shoots 800fps.
I double checked the velocity with an external Crono.

I changed both external O rings at the transfer port and the one smaller in the barrel. still same results.

Any suggestions that would be useful? I run out of ideas and daystate sents me back at the seller.

Thank you in advance

 

[billking]

Thank you all for the interest. The latest news are : if i fill the carbon bottle of the rifle over 200 bar after 4-5 shoots the rifle shoots exactly where I asked for (see the photos). If the bottle is under 200 it cannot give velocity. Sounds like regulator issue??

 

[engfred]

Sorry for late reply.
I think the problem is that in Factory mode the rifle will automatic get the right speed if the requested speed and the measured speed on the integrated chronograph is within +/- 100 fps. With your entered request 800 fps and the result measured 600ish the factory mode will not try to correct the speed.
I don.t know the reason to why this was working before but not now.

As you can see from the second bottom line above it needs to be within 100fps + or - to start to compensate the speed.

You can try this:
Set it to 600 fps and let it shoot to it reaches 600 fps.
If ok - Your have to have shot at least 4 consecutive shots where it stays within +/-4 fps before the rifle stores the result.
Then increase the speed to 650 fps and let it shoot until it reach the speed (if it does reach the speed)
Then increase up to 700 fps and shoot again see if it climbs to 700 fps. and so on all the way up to 800 fps.

The factory table below is the data the rifle uses to calculate settings for individual speeds - It will look something like this -
This factory table is my custom settings I added for my Deltawolf .177 / 23" barrel custom named KO13.43. The 1,2,3 and so is table row no.
Row no. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 are marked with the "target" symbol this indicates that this is settings that the rifle calculated by interpolation. Example speed row 2 is calculated with the settings from row with 970 fps and the row with 960 fps. The rifle added row 2 after it shot 4 consecutive shots within +/- 4 fps.
Note in this I cannot select speeds faster than 970 and slower than 700 since my evaluation was that this would be around the speed I needed for this type slugs.
I do not know what went wrong in your case but your factory table could be corrupted somehow....
The 15.89 gr. and the 13,42 gr. was the only factory tables from the factory :-(
If i look at the values for one of the tables there is a bug Voltage increases at the low speed and up but at the third last lines, Pulse and Volt are equal to the above row with a higher speed..... But I did only use these factory mode the first day that i had the rifle.
I hope this can help you get the rifle back to "life"
Greetings from Denmark

 

[billking]

Sorry for late reply.
I think the problem is that in Factory mode the rifle will automatic get the right speed if the requested speed and the measured speed on the integrated chronograph is within +/- 100 fps. With your entered request 800 fps and the result measured 600ish the factory mode will not try to correct the speed.
I don.t know the reason to why this was working before but not now.

View attachment 464853

As you can see from the second bottom line above it needs to be within 100fps + or - to start to compensate the speed.

You can try this:
Set it to 600 fps and let it shoot to it reaches 600 fps.
If ok - Your have to have shot at least 4 consecutive shots where it stays within +/-4 fps before the rifle stores the result.
Then increase the speed to 650 fps and let it shoot until it reach the speed (if it does reach the speed)
Then increase up to 700 fps and shoot again see if it climbs to 700 fps. and so on all the way up to 800 fps.

The factory table below is the data the rifle uses to calculate settings for individual speeds - It will look something like this -
This factory table is my custom settings I added for my Deltawolf .177 / 23" barrel custom named KO13.43. The 1,2,3 and so is table row no.
Row no. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 are marked with the "target" symbol this indicates that this is settings that the rifle calculated by interpolation. Example speed row 2 is calculated with the settings from row with 970 fps and the row with 960 fps. The rifle added row 2 after it shot 4 consecutive shots within +/- 4 fps.
Note in this I cannot select speeds faster than 970 and slower than 700 since my evaluation was that this would be around the speed I needed for this type slugs.
I do not know what went wrong in your case but your factory table could be corrupted somehow....
The 15.89 gr. and the 13,42 gr. was the only factory tables from the factory :-(
If i look at the values for one of the tables there is a bug Voltage increases at the low speed and up but at the third last lines, Pulse and Volt are equal to the above row with a higher speed..... But I did only use these factory mode the first day that i had the rifle.
I hope this can help you get the rifle back to "life"
Greetings from Denmark

View attachment 464859

Interesting point of view . But my rifle always shot whatever i asked about of the box. Suddenly had this issue . It’s not correct that you have to fire 3-4 shots to get the wanted velocity, that’s why I believe it’s the regulator. I ordered one from huma air and also O rings to service the current.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Interesting point of view . But my rifle always shot whatever i asked about of the box. Suddenly had this issue . It’s not correct that you have to fire 3-4 shots to get the wanted velocity, that’s why I believe it’s the regulator. I ordered one from huma air and also O rings to service the current.

Was your rifle always topped up when it was working properly?

 

[billking]

Was your rifle always topped up when it was working properly?

Yes

 

[engfred]

Interesting point of view . But my rifle always shot whatever i asked about of the box. Suddenly had this issue . It’s not correct that you have to fire 3-4 shots to get the wanted velocity, that’s why I believe it’s the regulator. I ordered one from huma air and also O rings to service the current.

Correction you have to shoot 3-4 shots to reach the speed with a new first time selected speed. When the 4 shots within speed +/- 4 fps are shot it stores the settings for that speed. So if you come back to like 800 fps it will already know what pulse and voltage are needed. You can check if your regulator works from your display - if you get the pressure in the display then you know its working. So its more likely to be a mechanical problem - valve sticking or something else. You can try the advanced to see if you can get to the speed with your lower pressure.

 

[Solo1]

I may be totally off base as i have no experience with alpha or delta wolf but i do have a red wolf in 177. I saw where you mentioned a change after 200 bar. My red would shoot great till it hit around 200 bar and the very small groups above 200 bar would turn into a scatter gun below and the problem turned out to be the gcu.

 

[billking]

I may be totally off base as i have no experience with alpha or delta wolf but i do have a red wolf in 177. I saw where you mentioned a change after 200 bar. My red would shoot great till it hit around 200 bar and the very small groups above 200 bar would turn into a scatter gun below and the problem turned out to be the gcu.

What is the GCU?

 

[Solo1]

What is the GCU?

Gun control unit. The computer in the gun

 

[billking]

Correction you have to shoot 3-4 shots to reach the speed with a new first time selected speed. When the 4 shots within speed +/- 4 fps are shot it stores the settings for that speed. So if you come back to like 800 fps it will already know what pulse and voltage are needed. You can check if your regulator works from your display - if you get the pressure in the display then you know its working. So its more likely to be a mechanical problem - valve sticking or something else. You can try the advanced to see if you can get to the speed with your lower

But i have a question. Is the guns shoots for example 745 but the minimum velocity that the rifle gives me is 900 over +\- 100 . How I will adjust the velocity?

 

[Arzrover]

Before you do anything more, pull the hammer and return spring to see if the spring is damaged. I've seen a small number of the springs break... possibly a bad batch of springs. The velocity will be quite erratic if it's broken.
The hammer is accessed through the battery compartment. You'll need to pull the battery, carefully pull the long connector, then twist to unlock the hammer cover and pull it out. The hammer and spring should just fall out. Look for debris in the hammer pocket, also, and blow that out well...
Good luck...
Bob

 

[billking]

Before you do anything more, pull the hammer and return spring to see if the spring is damaged. I've seen a small number of the springs break... possibly a bad batch of springs. The velocity will be quite erratic if it's broken.
The hammer is accessed through the battery compartment. You'll need to pull the battery, carefully pull the long connector, then twist to unlock the hammer cover and pull it out. The hammer and spring should just fall out. Look for debris in the hammer pocket, also, and blow that out well...
Good luck...
Bob

No hummer or spring damage .

 

[billking]

Sorry for late reply.
I think the problem is that in Factory mode the rifle will automatic get the right speed if the requested speed and the measured speed on the integrated chronograph is within +/- 100 fps. With your entered request 800 fps and the result measured 600ish the factory mode will not try to correct the speed.
I don.t know the reason to why this was working before but not now.

View attachment 464853

As you can see from the second bottom line above it needs to be within 100fps + or - to start to compensate the speed.

You can try this:
Set it to 600 fps and let it shoot to it reaches 600 fps.
If ok - Your have to have shot at least 4 consecutive shots where it stays within +/-4 fps before the rifle stores the result.
Then increase the speed to 650 fps and let it shoot until it reach the speed (if it does reach the speed)
Then increase up to 700 fps and shoot again see if it climbs to 700 fps. and so on all the way up to 800 fps.

The factory table below is the data the rifle uses to calculate settings for individual speeds - It will look something like this -
This factory table is my custom settings I added for my Deltawolf .177 / 23" barrel custom named KO13.43. The 1,2,3 and so is table row no.
Row no. 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 are marked with the "target" symbol this indicates that this is settings that the rifle calculated by interpolation. Example speed row 2 is calculated with the settings from row with 970 fps and the row with 960 fps. The rifle added row 2 after it shot 4 consecutive shots within +/- 4 fps.
Note in this I cannot select speeds faster than 970 and slower than 700 since my evaluation was that this would be around the speed I needed for this type slugs.
I do not know what went wrong in your case but your factory table could be corrupted somehow....
The 15.89 gr. and the 13,42 gr. was the only factory tables from the factory :-(
If i look at the values for one of the tables there is a bug Voltage increases at the low speed and up but at the third last lines, Pulse and Volt are equal to the above row with a higher speed..... But I did only use these factory mode the first day that i had the rifle.
I hope this can help you get the rifle back to "life"
Greetings from Denmark

View attachment 464859

I have stored some pellts already. Thanks.

No i want to store the JSB 18.13grain.
But when i shoot them it give me velocity 680, but the minimum velocity that i can ask from the rifle is 800 which is over +/- 100.So the rifle doesnt try to fix the fps. How i will manage to increase these pellets?

 

[billking]

Have you tried Advanced Mode?

ONLY in advance mode i can reach the velocity i want.

So what this may mean?

 

[msg1979]

Did you find out what the problem was?

 

[vortexted]

I’m curious too if you figured out the issue?

 

[engfred]

I Guess you will have to lower the pressure, to get the rifle to shoot slower - and then when its within +/- 100 fps it can correct itself.
I still prefer to have factory programs based on actual tested shooting speed with each Pellet / slugs.

A little DW / AW update:

I shoot the .177 Deltawolf HP version. And was struggling to get speed enough on Zan 16 and Zan 20 slugs.
First I tested what I could achieve with up to 190 bar. Then I installed the Ultra fire valve - but still i did not gain much speed.
Then i figured that it must be mechanical limitations.
I found the pellet probe to be with only a ø3 mm hole in the center and the barrel with a transfer port hole of only ø3.3mm.
The first test I did was to drill up the pellet probe to ø3.5 mm that increased the speed a lot. (About the same increase in speed as going from a 600 mm barrel to a 700 mm)
Then I started to draw a sketch and calculate flow areas.

I came up with the maximum area I can achieve reliable behind the pellet is to convert the pellet frope from pipe type to pin type.
To get a stable solution I cut the pipe away from the original pellet probe and drilled a ø1.5 x 8 mm hole in the end of the pellet prope.
Here i glued in the shaft from a ø1.5 mm drill with ca. glue. I then shortened the drill shaft so a pellet with deep cavity will be pushed to be clear of the increased transfer port hole. So now a flat based slug will be seated a bit deeper than before.

Corresponding with the area i achieve with a pin probe ø4.5 mm barrel area subtracted the area of the ø1.5 pin prope i calculated the transfer port must be ø3.5 wide x 5.3 mm Ablong towards the inlet end.
I started by drilling the transfer port up to a 3.5 mm hole and grinded the hole ablong so its ø3.5 wide x 5.5 mm Ab-long.
Then i grinded the inlet conical so from the outside its about ø 6 mm and conical into the ø3.5 wide x 5.5 mm Ab-long hole at the bottom.
After my changes i spent a couple of hours of polishing the barrel and transfer port hole.

I also repolished the complete barrel so its mirror glaze again.

The use of a tiny 1.5 mm probe is about the optimal you can achieve with a .177 - Normal pellet pin probes might be to fragile with the ø1.5 probe and I guess that is why the OEM make them considerably larger - My Pellet probe on my Red Wolf. .177 HP is I guess somewhat between ø2 and ø2.5 mm so here I will also gain extra power by changing the pin to a ø1.5 mm.
But I have plenty of power in my Redwolf with Heliboard as it is now - so this will be a winter project. I had it shooting the ZAN 20 grain at 1045 fps as it is now standard without and porting and probe alterations.

So with my DW I now gained the power I was searching for - I can now confirm the letters from daystate "HP" is correct.
I am still able to shoot 7-8 fpe pellets in the garden with impressing accuracy.

But due to these changes I had to redo all my factory programs again - since it was shooting too fast for the first shots and it took to many shots for the rifle to find the speed I entered.

I found that the LW Polygon barrel is not shooting the Zan 16 and Zan 20 reliable, even when i test shoot them all the way up to 1000 fps.
The accuracy is great for 3-5 shots and then a flier - Too many fliers which I do not get when I shoot the JSB Knockouts 13.43.
With the JSB Knockouts i get reference accuracy even at 100 and 150 meters.
I guess the heavier slugs needs more twist to stabilize the heavier slugs.

Barrel options DAYSTATE??? = Increased business -
To compare for my FX Crown I just bought liner no. 11 or 12 last week!
That is a lot of easy turnover for a rifle manufacture ----. Daystate !!! Hello are you stuck at 12 fpe "knock" "knock" !!!

Still I gained advantages:
Now my standard reg setting is reduced from 170 bar to 148 bar - shooting the same speeds with less noise from the hammer.
This also means that I can get a lot more shots per filling.
I do not have to reduce the pressure, if I shoot in the garden with 10 gr. pellets at 500-700 fps and accuracy is superb.........

Best regards

Claus from Denmark