Daystate Delta Wolf. 25 Cal. Feedback is Welcome.

[Emu]

I will appreciate those who own a Delta Wolf in. 25 Cal to share both, pisitive aspects of this rifle and negative aspects too.

I will appreciate them to tell me if they think that the rifle has enough difference to be chosen over good rifles as a Woverine or an Airgun Technology rifle (please do not make comparison to any kind of FX) that are atnhalf of the price of the Delta Wolf.

I am plannig to eventually buy one and I would like to incurre in the amputation of my wallet with as much info as posible.

 

[SkeeterHawk]

Well, Emu, I gained a little bit of experience at RMAC. I too have been rather "smitten" with the Alpha/Delta Wolf format, so I talked to three different owners of them. While I didn't get to shoot one as we were all busy with our guns, all three of these owners said that they have to clean the Chrony on the end of the barrel every 150 shots AT THE MOST! All owners agreed that was a pain in the butt to have to clean it that often. They are running a half dozen Ballistol soaked patches and a few dry ones along with 8-12 shots to prime the barrel, so you are only getting 130 or so shots that are useful before you are cleaning it again. There was only one Alpha Wolf in the finals for Benchrest, and it didn't place in the top 10.

In my opinion, Daystate will have to get the chrony under control before that gun meets the expectations that a lot of us know it is capable of. Right now, they are almost certainly using optical interrupters inside the chrony, and they are just getting dirty. They will have to go to a hall-effect sensor, or even a radar style like FX, but the technology in the chrony needs a boost, again, IMHO...being a non-owner yet. If you are itching for a Daystate, go with the Red Wolf platform for now.

 

[Centercut]

Well, Emu, I gained a little bit of experience at RMAC. I too have been rather "smitten" with the Alpha/Delta Wolf format, so I talked to three different owners of them. While I didn't get to shoot one as we were all busy with our guns, all three of these owners said that they have to clean the Chrony on the end of the barrel every 150 shots AT THE MOST! All owners agreed that was a pain in the butt to have to clean it that often. They are running a half dozen Ballistol soaked patches and a few dry ones along with 8-12 shots to prime the barrel, so you are only getting 130 or so shots that are useful before you are cleaning it again. There was only one Alpha Wolf in the finals for Benchrest, and it didn't place in the top 10.

In my opinion, Daystate will have to get the chrony under control before that gun meets the expectations that a lot of us know it is capable of. Right now, they are almost certainly using optical interrupters inside the chrony, and they are just getting dirty. They will have to go to a hall-effect sensor, or even a radar style like FX, but the technology in the chrony needs a boost, again, IMHO...being a non-owner yet. If you are itching for a Daystate, go with the Red Wolf platform for now.

Interesting. I have had a .25 DW since the first ones came to the USA. I shoot at least 2 or 3 tins (600 to 900 pellets) between the 2 minutes it takes to run a dry bore mop through the Chrony section. Perhaps it’s because I lightly lube all my pellets (Ballistol). I also don’t clean my barrel more than once every 500 to 1000 shots.
I didn’t make the finals (100Y or Speed) due to a microswitch issue in my gun. But from what I saw there were two of us in Pro Class shooting DW/AW, so 50% made the finals. Last year two of us (me and @zx10wall) made the Speed Challenge finals with DW (.25 and .30).
IMHO the DW/AW is a step up from the Red Wolf HP. I have both….

 

[viperjoe]

I have owned a Delta Wolf for over a year and can say that I have rarely had to clean the inside of the chronograph and when I did it was only a long qtip to clean the dust out. Also most DW owners will use their own settings and the chronograph is just a tool to see what your settings are producing. Sure beginners will just want to set a speed to start off with but I have not done that in a long long time.

 

[Arzrover]

@SkeeterHawk - "In my opinion, Daystate will have to get the chrony under control before that gun meets the expectations that a lot of us know it is capable of. Right now, they are almost certainly using optical interrupters inside the chrony, and they are just getting dirty."
It's usually a good idea to research some before making comments like this.
The chrono uses led emitters and receptors similar to about all optical chronos. They are on the outside of a clear tube in a fairly well sealed environment. The projectile passes through the inside of the tube.

The only reason to clean very frequently is if you lube the projectile. Solvents aren't required and may even be a problem. Mine goes for at 1k and typically many tins and I even lube with Gunzilla . A good wipe with a dry soft cloth or dry bore mop is all that is necessary. The chrono has been an awesome addition to the Wolf lineup. Mine is coming up on 2 years old now and has had well in excess of 50k rounds through it in 177, 22, and 25.
I do remove my barrel to clean every couple of tins as I like to maintain its accuracy.
Bob

 

[Emu]

Thanks to all !!!

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

If you shoot left handed, the DeltaWolf display screen will be on the wrong side of the rifle.

A small detail, but may be of concern for some.

 

[SkeeterHawk]

The chrono uses led emitters and receptors similar to about all optical chronos.

This is the definition of an "optical-interruptor", as I mentioned. Your note to "clean the tube" that they are looking through is the problem that I brought up. If a Hall-Effect sensor, that senses the material is used, not the photo-interruption, you would be less susceptible to the debris on a tube because you can test for Delta difference, which would "kinda" negate the buildup...but this is not immune. Whatever, I design systems like this for a living, so I was really just "talking shop" on the best way to do this. If Daystate would like a consultant, PM me on Airgun Nation

I am glad Emu got the information that he was looking for. I could only "plant a seed" from the limited data that I had at my disposal. To be honest, I am REALLY glad to hear information in the contrary to what I learned about the AW/DW. I am really intrigued by the abilities that consistent feedback would provide to shot consistency.

Thanks to all!

 

[Arzrover]

Thanks for your response, @SkeeterHawk. I guess I was the misinterpreter...

On another positive note, I've never worked on a rifle with a valve quite like this one and it's impressive that all the above shooting has not shown ANY wear and I've yet to replace an oring or head on it. I've actually had it in and out of the rifle at least 100 times and only replaced a single oring on it from a nick. I've tried some alternate orings on the barrel, just because, but have yet to replace those from actual wear, either. So... there's 3 orings that support and seal the barrel, 3 that seal the all stainless valve body and 1 on the valve stem, a breech oring, and 2 on the Huma reg. As many times as this has been apart and as much as I've shot, that single oring is all I've replaced due to damage or failure. That's nearly TWO YEARS of almost daily shooting ! As much as I like the perfection of the Red Wolf, I have to replace the valve stem oring occasionally because of the erosion from high power levels

Anyway, I like the ergos and construction of the DW more than anything I've tried... just wish I could shoot the bullpup form as well as the rifle form. I REALLY like the ease of pulling for cleaning or changing the barrel and the ease of tuning and swapping calibers.

Bob

 

[SkeeterHawk]

So... there's 3 orings that support and seal the barrel, 3 that seal the all stainless valve body and 1 on the valve stem, a breech oring, and 2 on the Huma reg. As many times as this has been apart and as much as I've shot, that single oring is all I've replaced due to damage or failure. That's nearly TWO YEARS of almost daily shooting !

This is REALLY GOOD information, Bob! This is one aspect of the Daystate that I rarely hear talked about. It is good to know that you aren't experiencing o-ring failure more than you are shooting it that much. I have been wondering if I should get into the Daystate platform, since I design electronic circuits, I figured that it would be a can of worms and that I would end up designing my own controller board and interface software before I was "done", but at least I know that the mechanicals around the electronics is solid...so if I do screw up my board, I can always put the old one back in. Hmmm...

 

[qball]

I will appreciate those who own a Delta Wolf in. 25 Cal to share both, pisitive aspects of this rifle and negative aspects too.

I will appreciate them to tell me if they think that the rifle has enough difference to be chosen over good rifles as a Woverine or an Airgun Technology rifle (please do not make comparison to any kind of FX) that are atnhalf of the price of the Delta Wolf.

I am plannig to eventually buy one and I would like to incurre in the amputation of my wallet with as much info as posible.

You clearly want it and looking for emotional support on the purchase, just buy it and be happy!

 

[Emu]

You clearly want it and looking for emotional support on the purchase, just buy it and be happy!

LOL...

It is not so easy.....

If it is to not accurate enough (like my Renegade HP or my Vulcan 2) or if it is extreamly complicated to make it work, then I will feel VERY stupid of having paid the amount of two airgun Technology rifles ( that always are bullet proof) just to get troubles and frustration.

That scenario is unacceptable.

 

[qball]

LOL...

It is not so easy.....

If it is to not accurate enough (like my Renegade HP or my Vulcan 2) or if it is extreamly complicated to make it work, then I will feel VERY stupid of having paid the amount of two airgun Technology rifles ( that always are bullet proof) just to get troubles and frustration.

That scenario is unacceptable.

You say that but you are looking for confirmation to support your lust/want for it, you only live once. Why else would you even think about buying something that cost 2 AGT guns that are just as accurate, nobody "needs" this but you certainly WANT IT!

 

[Emu]

Buying an Evol Pardigm is an expensive "investment". You know you have bought one of the best made rifles in the World that will last forever (if you do not use it to measure the deep of clifts).

If you buy a Daystate Revere you know you have bought and excellent rifle that happens to be the must beautiful one in the World.

If you buy a Vulcan 3 you know you have made the best purchase in market, doubtless.

If you buy a Delta Wolf you are certain that you can buy trouble!..... And if you are lucky, you bought the rifle with the easiest way of tunnig and able to interchange calibres, but that could end in the waiste basket if it happens to have the same long lasting than a smartphone.....

 

[Arzrover]

The Paradigm is an incredible rifle, for sure.

I'm not sure what you meant by "buying trouble ". I've had little trouble with mine but have shot it a LOT. We have been testing all kinds of barrels and other things so I've had it apart quite a bit and the above post detailed how little has been a problem. The electronics are fairly simple in design... nothing like a smartphone... and really should be low on the concern list. Daystate has had a number of electronic rifles for many years with few problems other than batteries aging. There definitely has been a lack of features in previous models for what they COULD have been... hence the attraction of the Heliboard. The DW has no shortage of features and the firmware can be updated easily. It does not interact with the internet, so even if it was NEVER updated, it would still have the same features and function.

I'm just not seeing the "buying trouble". It IS expensive though, and that is a value judgement for each individual that's considering buying it. The value to me is in its versatility and power with ergonomics that work great for me. It is NOT more accurate than my Red Wolf but it's competitive and the ergonomics are better for me for a lot of activities.

With your concerns , @Emu, I would recommend not buying it as you'll likely be apprehensive about it , if not always , at least for a long time while it proves itself.
Bob

 

[Emu]

The Paradigm is an incredible rifle, for sure.

I'm not sure what you meant by "buying trouble ". I've had little trouble with mine but have shot it a LOT. We have been testing all kinds of barrels and other things so I've had it apart quite a bit and the above post detailed how little has been a problem. The electronics are fairly simple in design... nothing like a smartphone... and really should be low on the concern list. Daystate has had a number of electronic rifles for many years with few problems other than batteries aging. There definitely has been a lack of features in previous models for what they COULD have been... hence the attraction of the Heliboard. The DW has no shortage of features and the firmware can be updated easily. It does not interact with the internet, so even if it was NEVER updated, it would still have the same features and function.

I'm just not seeing the "buying trouble". It IS expensive though, and that is a value judgement for each individual that's considering buying it. The value to me is in its versatility and power with ergonomics that work great for me. It is NOT more accurate than my Red Wolf but it's competitive and the ergonomics are better for me for a lot of activities.

With your concerns , @Emu, I would recommend not buying it as you'll likely be apprehensive about it , if not always , at least for a long time while it proves itself.
Bob

Excellent post !!!

This is exactly the answer I was expecting.

You give important info:

- Electronics should be reliable.
- Accuracy is equivalent to the one of the Red Wolf
- Eventually the battery will need to be replaced.
- The rifle is comfortable to shoulder.

Thanks a lot !!!

 

[qball]

Excellent post !!!

This is exactly the answer I was expecting.

You give important info:

- Electronics should be reliable.
- Accuracy is equivalent to the one of the Red Wolf
- Eventually the battery will need to be replaced.
- The rifle is comfortable to shoulder.

Thanks a lot !!!

Have to agree with that.

- we all live with TONS of electronics and most of them are trouble free for years
- many A/D wold owners have posted many groups showing these guns are very accurate as expected
- batteries are cheap and easily replaced which is zero concern IMHO, buy a spare just in case like some
- for shouldering and walk around Alpha wolf might be better with the smoother stock, bullpup with more weight in the back normally are pretty nice to shoulder


However 22 cal has slow twist barrel which is really good for pellets but not good at all for slugs. Seen many very good long range groups from the 25 cal so I would highly recommend going with .25 cal to have the flexibility to shoot slugs IF you want to try slugs.

 

[Emu]

The Paradigm is an incredible rifle, for sure.

I'm not sure what you meant by "buying trouble ". I've had little trouble with mine but have shot it a LOT. We have been testing all kinds of barrels and other things so I've had it apart quite a bit and the above post detailed how little has been a problem. The electronics are fairly simple in design... nothing like a smartphone... and really should be low on the concern list. Daystate has had a number of electronic rifles for many years with few problems other than batteries aging. There definitely has been a lack of features in previous models for what they COULD have been... hence the attraction of the Heliboard. The DW has no shortage of features and the firmware can be updated easily. It does not interact with the internet, so even if it was NEVER updated, it would still have the same features and function.

I'm just not seeing the "buying trouble". It IS expensive though, and that is a value judgement for each individual that's considering buying it. The value to me is in its versatility and power with ergonomics that work great for me. It is NOT more accurate than my Red Wolf but it's competitive and the ergonomics are better for me for a lot of activities.

With your concerns , @Emu, I would recommend not buying it as you'll likely be apprehensive about it , if not always , at least for a long time while it proves itself.
Bob

A Delta wolf in .30 Cal is in it's way to it's new home.

Let's see how well it works.

 

[Centercut]

I have owned a Delta Wolf for over a year and can say that I have rarely had to clean the inside of the chronograph and when I did it was only a long qtip to clean the dust out. Also most DW owners will use their own settings and the chronograph is just a tool to see what your settings are producing. Sure beginners will just want to set a speed to start off with but I have not done that in a long long time.

Joe, I agree that a few years back (when this was written), the FACTORY mode wasn't really up to speed as originally expected. Fast forward a couple years, and the Factory mode truly outperforms the Advanced mode in my .30 Delta Wolf. I've had that one for over two years now and had one of the original .25 versions when they first shipped.

When properly set up, the Factory mode will keep four magazines (32 shots in .30 caliber with AEA 50.1 grain pellets) within an ES of 5 fps and an SD of well under 2 fps. This is MUCH better than anyone will ever get from a Red Wolf (factory GCU-2 or HeliBoard) - I have two and they are excellent, but an ES of 12 to 13 fps for a 30-shot string and an SD of 3 or 4 fps is as good as you'll get.
While a DW/AW in Advanced mode CAN get numbers as good as Factory, it doesn't account for weather or elevation changes, or temperature changes over a long-ish shooting session. With the last couple of Firmware updates, especially the latest, the Factory mode is IMHO most definitely the way to go...
After all, the is really the PURPOSE of having the built in chronograph - to feedback speed into the algorithm to keep desired speed constant.

 

[chas1969]

Problems with cold temperatures and built in chrony was all over the place… e-gremlins. I wanted so much but ended up with non-e BRK ghost and much better off. The other consideration is in manual mode that it is slower to tune than old fashioned knobs Imho. Thx Charlie