Daystate Red Wolf HP .22

[Macros]

I have not experienced any binding or ratchetiness when using the magazine despite accuracy going for a complete loop. This is the most interesting thought/idea I've heard in a while.

It may explain a number of things I've experienced:

1. Pushing pellets through each chamber the mag - no visible damage. 

2. I have actually individually magazine fed a pellet from each chamber into the breech, after which I used a cleaning rod to push them back out - no damage or difference in any of them from a single loaded pellet.

3. My airwolf MVT shot beautifully from the mag - but it had a little wedge that would come out and actuate the mag when the probe was drawn back, so there was never any jolting of the probe by the magazine.

So again, this idea is pretty interesting - although I must admit if correct, its also quite troubling as there is not much one can do to fix such a flaw apart from accept that you're going to be single loading and probably need to buy one of those funny little leather pellet pouches they use for field target...  

 

[nomojo65]

Very interesting! Nice work Dano!, brings up even more questions though in my head? Will be working through those soon!

 

[hawkeye69]

I think Dano may be on to something, this is the pellet probe on my Pulsar:

 

[Hookster]

The mark appears on any Daystate with anti double load mag. All my Daystate guns have the mark, but I dont have the mag issue Dano is having. The mag is the issue for Dano. I have some garbage mags and perfect ones. Sad I had to buy 7 to get 5 good ones. 

 

[nomojo65]

Couple Q’s 1- so all your daystates are anti- double load? 2- you don’t have a accuracy issue now but did until you found a good mag. Through trail and error? So we should bring this to the attention of daystate, because for what they are asking for these Red Wolfs they should honor faulty mags and replace them!, if we all just wanted a single shot, Just buy a RAW or Thomas and get a more durable and probably more accurate overall gun!, I also thought they had a 5 yr. warranty? Guess it doesn’t apply to the mags?

 

[Hookster]

Couple Q’s 1- so all your daystates are anti- double load? 2- you don’t have a accuracy issue now but did until you found a good mag. Through trail and error? So we should bring this to the attention of daystate, because for what they are asking for these Red Wolfs they should honor faulty mags and replace them!, if we all just wanted a single shot, Just buy a RAW or Thomas and get a more durable and probably more accurate overall gun!, I also thought they had a 5 yr. warranty? Guess it doesn’t apply to the mags?

Nomojo if you are referring to my post? Yes all my Daystate guns are using this style of magazine. I use the same mags with my Standard Renegade .22 in my RW HP .22 made it nice because I already had 6 mags for that gun so I didn't need to buy more. My mags are from different vendors and I didn't look into the 5 year warranty covering the mag. Like most mags that have orings and springs you will need to tweak and work on them from time to time. Lead, oil and other debris buildup especially if you hunt with the gun will happen over time. 

 

[Dano46]

Hi thanks everybody for hearing me out espesialy hawkeye69.. its defficult for me to explain since my english is not that good..i just wanted to shed some light on the problem.. hope i've done done that.. i apoligize to Daystate for bringing up this fact.. im not one to moan so this is it for me.. i bought the gun I'll live with it.. I still love my Daystate Red Wolf HP .22 and is one of my most prized posesetions.. from now on its just single load for me to get the ultimate accuracy.

 

[nomojo65]

Ok!, Hookster I see what your saying, upon doing some further research it appears that the pin in the action pops up striking a lever in the mag.(this lever is offset pinned into mag. The lever has a very sharp edge to it! This is what’s hitting the probe... not the pin in the action!) Also there appears to be a second catch on the pinned side of lever ( this I BELIEVE? is the actual anti-double load feature!) but without tearing mag. apart not 100% sure?, also believe there is possibly a FIX? But would have to tear mag. apart to know for sure? I’m not ready to do this until Daystate is notified or someone has chimed in that has disassembled a Red Wolf Mag. verifying what I’m thinking?

 

[nomojo65]

Upon further inspection there is two pins in Mag. Pin #1= secure’s “Throw lever” that pin stikes from action. Pin #2= “Articulated” catch lever for actual anti-double load feature? See Pic. Please someone chime in that has had an Red Wolf Mag. apart to verify what I’m thinking? plus if what I believe is the culprit to this “Throw lever” hitting probe it should be “easily” fixed? IF I’m on track here?

 

[nomojo65]

Also wanted to quantify my reasonings!, After watching Dano’s utube vid. I PM’d him about that “Throw Lever” striking ( with considerable force! ) the probe, the vibrations/ harmonics sent through probe into barrel could be causing this inaccuracy when using Mag.? Let me know what u guys think!

 

[Macros]

Here's a thought on testing Dano's theory that someone could try. I'd do it myself but my red wolf is still disassembled after sending the action for servicing. I will try it once everything's back together.

Load the mag and put it in the gun.

Load a pellet into the breech.

Remove the mag.

Fire the shot.

Manually actuate the magazine and repeat the sequence, shooting a group with magazine fed pellets but no mag in the gun to disrupt the probe for each shot.

If the accuracy is good, the theory is likely to be correct. If not, we may be back to the drawing board...

 

[nomojo65]

Sorry guys for my constant barage of postings!, but also wanted to add: I to have these marks on my probe and have shot numerous groups w/ without Mag and have noticed only a slight advantage with groups not utilizing Mag. But this testing has been done @ only 16.5yds inside! ( cold here in Mi.!) plus only way I can rule out- outside atmospheric variables for sure... Macros, will try your suggestion tonight if I can?, my suspicion is it will behave “group” as with SS tray?

 

[hawkeye69]

My Renegade which also suffers the same magazine issue:

 

[Macros]

So it would seem this theory holds water so far. Only managed to try it out at very short range (16m). My delta stryker only parallaxes down to 25m so I struggle a bit with that shooting groups up close, but I think the results are promising:

Each group is 5 shots.

Ignore the rip at the top of the 'Mag fed but shot without' group, that tore off when I was measuring as the paper is a bit damp from drizzle.

Also the other groups on the page were attempts at mag fed groups, but where my pea brain had me forget to remove the mag for one of the shots, invariably ending in a big flyer and mucking the experiment up

Hopefully I'll get a chance to confirm all this further out soon.

Assuming it stays the same, the question then becomes what to do about it? I'm sure it's that little lever smacking the probe and making the dent rather than the spring tension of the drum trying to rotate, so I wonder if one could modify it not to hit the probe but still function properly?

 

[hawkeye69]

It shouldn't be up the consumer to modify the magazine, this is a design issue. Daystate should step up to the plate and address this obvious flaw. Daystates are supposed to the top of the line guns and as such they are priced accordingly. I have now written to Daystate about both guns and I'm awaiting a reply.

Look at the picture I posted of my Renegade, there is actually a chunk of metal that has been chipped away.

 

[Macros]

I suspect that gouge is why some people have the idea you can 'shoot the mag in' over several thousands of pellets and have accuracy improve somewhat . I'll bet what has happened in their guns is that area has worn to the point where the impact during the firing cycle is significantly less.

But you are of course right. Seems like something that should be easily fixed with a minor redesign of the magazine mechanism. We can only hope Daystate does actually step up and fix it.

 

[hawkeye69]

I submitted a Technical Enquiry Form on the Daystate website for both of my guns. I suggest that everyone having the same issue should do the same.

http://daystate.com/servicing-support/

 

[Oregun]

-

 

[Macros]

I submitted a Technical Enquiry Form on the Daystate website for both of my guns. I suggest that everyone having the same issue should do the same.

http://daystate.com/servicing-support/

Done

 

[nomojo65]

I also sent a report to Daystate, we will see how well they stand behind there product?, also want to say we should all give a shout-out to Dano46 he brought this to light for me and many others on this forum!, I’ve only had my RW for about 3-wks and wasn’t aware until reading this post and doing my own investigation along with collaborating with him on this matter. “ also want to add I will be fixing the Mag. My self in the meantime as to be able to utilize this feature of this very fine rifle.”

Joe