Daystate Red Wolf HP .22

[Macros]

Just had a thought regarding this issue.

I would assume that the mag indexing pin is operated by some of the released air pressure in the system when taking a shot. If so, it may be that the pin shoots up much harder on the FAC/HP versions we're all using and as such the mag lever hits the probe much harder than on the 12fpe versions in the UK, affecting accuracy more?

This may explain how as to Tony puts it, 'the majority' of daystate owners aren't having mag issues as I'm sure there are many many sub12fpe owners to dilute the pool.

It also may explain why I'm getting better mag accuracy on low power - on mine that's about 24fpe. I initially assumed it was the harder alloy of the H&n ftt I was using but I've since seen this trend extends to jsb 13gr pellets too. Halve the power output and I'm sure you see even more improvement.

 

[hawkeye69]

I have not yet received any response after sending 3 emails and filing 2 Technical Enquiry forms regarding my Daystate guns. I am very disappointed right now.

 

[hawkeye69]

Just had a thought regarding this issue.

I would assume that the mag indexing pin is operated by some of the released air pressure in the system when taking a shot. If so, it may be that the pin shoots up much harder on the FAC/HP versions we're all using and as such the mag lever hits the probe much harder than on the 12fpe versions in the UK, affecting accuracy more?

This may explain how as to Tony puts it, 'the majority' of daystate owners aren't having mag issues as I'm sure there are many many sub12fpe owners to dilute the pool.

It also may explain why I'm getting better mag accuracy on low power - on mine that's about 24fpe. I initially assumed it was the harder alloy of the H&n ftt I was using but I've since seen this trend extends to jsb 13gr pellets too. Halve the power output and I'm sure you see even more improvement.

If that truly is the issue then Daystate shouldn't sell higher power guns in the first place. What would be the point of selling a HP rifle if shooting it on high power damages the rifle?

 

[hawkeye69]

I have received an email from Daystate in which they say that have not received my emails. Not sure why but hopefully this will now be resolved.

 

[nomojo65]

Here’s some more info to pass on, I’ve removed more material from Mag. pri. Lever hook/anvil? ( what ever terminology is accurate? ) still contacting probe on Hi power!, but not as severe? Accuracy apears better, but honestly not enough Rnds either way to make a definitive judgment? Also believe probe might be S.S. And Mag. lever a harder steel? No way for me to know this for sure without analysis. As of right now I have more questions in my head to work through- bleed air port size for Mag. actuator for Hp vs. regular output rifle in all cal. Also actual Mag. Lever travel for Hp vs. Regular gun? List goes on... but sure Daystate engineering / production is hard at it also! Might have to give them a few days...

 

[Macros]

All I'm saying with the above is maybe this could be a reason why it seems to affect us HP owners more, and also why it was missed in testing.

Obviously nobody intentionally designs a rifle with the mag lever smacking the probe and causing damage or poor accuracy. That's a design error however you look at it and I'm sure it comes from the attempted (and at face value quite clever) MacGyvering of an older mag design to work with the new indexing pin/anti double load while remaining universal for all their guns. It's just that the margin of forgiveness for such errors is bigger at low fpe.

Hopefully the lack of answers to your enquiries for the moment is indicative of some testing and research before getting back to you with a generic response like mine

If not, we'll figure something out would that be 'acceptable' on the part of Daystate? Absolutely not regardless of the cost of the rifle but especially at this price point. But the guns are exceptional in every other way and worth at least holding out hope for, and just maybe, in my opinion at least, sorting out with an aftermarket mag rather than selling off in a rage. We shall see I guess 

 

[nomojo65]

My opinion only! Fwiw, you won’t see my gun in the classifieds!, I like it too much! I suspect it will take Daystate sometime to work through these issues, hopefully have a retro-kit of new probe & mag. for affected owners... HINT-HINT! Anyway to many pluses with this gun IMO plus I’m running out of Manufactures that meet my criteria! Daystate being only one of two others!

 

[hawkeye69]

Daystate has told me to take the guns to the reseller, in this case AOA, and they will handle whatever needs to be done. All's well that ends well, hopefully.

 

[nomojo65]

I’m glad u got a response, I haven’t!, did send them a description of issue but have had no response/email etc. I would rather not ship it back to AoA especially if they have no solution yet?, That’s verifiable and proved as a complete solution to problems!

 

[hawkeye69]

I’m glad u got a response, I haven’t!, did send them a description of issue but have had no response/email etc. I would rather not ship it back to AoA especially if they have no solution yet?, That’s verifiable and proved as a complete solution to problems!

I'll update this thread after AOA looks at the guns.

 

[nomojo65]

Thank you!, another item to pass on a shooting partner has the exact rifle his serial # in the 1700’s mine in the1900’s, (both .22hp) has the issue but not nearly as significant as mine?, appears his Mag. Pri. Lever anvil doesn’t extend into Mag. Well/rotating element as far as mine... now I don’t know if Daystate manufactures and assembles these in-house or outsource’s them? but they may want to start there! 

 

[Macros]

Glad to hear you got a response and that something is being done  

I really hope they get a proper solution worked out for all of us 

 

[Macros]

Maybe Nomojo can confirm or refute this as I'm away from my gun at the moment - it seems to me that the bit of the lever that hits the probe serves to catch the mag and prevent over rotation/skipped chambers when the lever is depressed. As soon as the lever drops down again the other end catches and holds the drum in alignment. 

This appears the be a vestigial function from the airwolf etc where the probe was withdrawn from the mag during cocking, and thus it didn't matter that it extended as far as it does into the line of the probe.

In the redwolf, pulsar etc the function of the offending part is actually taken over by the probe (explaining why it hits) and by the time the probe is withdrawn and the drum allowed to rotate, the lever has long since been back in 'neutral position'. 

So it would seem to me that if solely for use in a red wolf or similar, the problem bit could be filed off without much issue? Obviously when manually actuating the mag it would have to be physically held against spring tension - but hopefully it would then be a useful mag when in the gun!

 

[nomojo65]

Macros, you are right on track,to me looks like 2-levers actually? (They are pinned separately in mag.) the primary lever “anvil” or catch over rotation point can be machined/filed, and I have done so! With no ill effect to functionality of mag. Believe I’ve eliminated the impact damage to probe? (This has been confirmed by putting dykem blue on probe and looked for impact removal of blueing by pri. lever ) I had to remove quite alot of material in my particular mag.! This pointed catch “over travel” part of lever is now almost even w/ rotating drum catch or raised knuckles, I know my terminology is not correct but typing this in a hurry before leaving for work! Will get pics out when I can? I believe this is correctable by owner if you have the patience but agree this should have been done and tested from factory and also could be isolated to HP VERSIONS? either way Daystate should retrofit owners with improved/redesigned mag. And new probe! If damaged?

 

[nomojo65]

I would hope owners of HP versions that have used and worked on “tuned” these guns and also used them in Competition extensively like Michael, ken Hicks, and many others could chime in and share info, pics, accuracy when using mag. vs. not using mag. I know Michael used mag. @ EBR for some of the comp’s! And Ken is a authorized dealer plus probably has more experience with this gun than almost anyone else? Maybe I should personally contact these individuals?

 

[Macros]

Yeah it's a v/rocker type lever where as one end drops down the other moves up - so it functions like 2 separate but dependant levers awesome. I look forward to attempting a fix! Looking forward to your accuracy findings post fix too!

 

[scoeri]

my red wolf .22 standard (non HP) has the same probe damage. i can catch a fingernail on the spot. so it's not only HP rifles???

Scott in Wisconsin

 

[hawkeye69]

My Renegade is not an HP version and damage is as bad or worse on it than on my Pulsar HP.

 

[Dano46]

Simon Cockayne responded to my e mail.

I'm the one who started this topic and I made a you tube video with my cell to better explain myself since my English is not that good.

So I e-mailed Daystate at [email protected] and explained my problem and giving them all my information.

This is the official response from Daystate's Simon Cockayne... and I qoate

" I am sorry to hear of the issues as you describe. Please in the first instance contact your reseller as they may wish to inspect rifle, and will of course rectify as they find necessary"

Thats it, thats the hole e-mail..

So help me out here guys.. did they just tell me not to contact them, but to call my reseller?? I just die of laughing right now.. really really I just die.. If I wanted to speak to my reseller I would have called him as he is a great guy but he do not design the rifles for Daystate he do not work for Daystate and do not own Daystate.. I dont want this problem solved just for me.. I want this problem solved for everybody!! so thats why I call Daystate.. to give me a answer and a solution to this problem they pretend not to know about.

I will call my reseller on his birthday!

 

[hawkeye69]

I just dropped off my Renegade at AOA (holding off on the Pulsar until I know more).

After explaining the issue the young man said, that's no big deal the magazine levers are adjustable. He said the lever has several notches, you take out the pin and move it to a new position. He's not the repair guy so who knows. You would think if it's that simple Daystate would have mentioned it.

I'll post an update when I know more.