Daystate Red Wolf HP .22

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I take a moment to thank everybody that responded to this topic.. How can Daystate not know of this problem. They disigned this rifle, they build this rifle, they put it together piece by piece. Please dont let my die of laughing again. If i plant potatoes and the worms come and eat my potatoes, I know why the worms come and eat my potatoes!
 
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So basically what Daystate is saying that they are not testing functionality @ factory w/ supplied mag. before shipment and or AoA or other dealers are not testing either? When I received my gun from AOA it had a copy of a test target,type of pellet, fps etc. didn’t recall whether it was indicated if the group was shot w/ mag.? Also if all u have to do is change pin location to alleviate problem then in my mind they should be aware of issue, testing to make sure there is no contact and making necessary adjustments as needed? So simple right! I think Daystate is buying time trying to figure out next step... if any?
 
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my red wolf .22 standard (non HP) has the same probe damage. i can catch a fingernail on the spot. so it's not only HP rifles???

Scott in Wisconsin

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Not sure if you were misunderstanding my post or another.

What I said was it might be progressively worse in standard FAC and high power due to the actuator pin being operated by excess air hence probably shooting up more violently in these guns, more so than UK 12 fpe. All would hit the probe, just at lower powers it may be more forgiving of that happening 

Mine is also the standard power version and has quite spectacular mag accuracy issues. Goes from a ragged holes to over 2, sometimes 3 inches at 50y
 
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I just dropped off my Renegade at AOA (holding off on the Pulsar until I know more).

After explaining the issue the young man said, that's no big deal the magazine levers are adjustable. He said the lever has several notches, you take out the pin and move it to a new position. He's not the repair guy so who knows. You would think if it's that simple Daystate would have mentioned it.

I'll post an update when I know more.
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Yeah, sounds like his wires may be getting a little crossed there - I'm suspect he's referring to the locator pin? Hope not! 



Simon Cockayne responded to my e mail.

I'm the one who started this topic and I made a you tube video with my cell to better explain myself since my English is not that good.

So I e-mailed Daystate at [email protected] and explained my problem and giving them all my information.

This is the official response from Daystate's Simon Cockayne... and I qoate

" I am sorry to hear of the issues as you describe. Please in the first instance contact your reseller as they may wish to inspect rifle, and will of course rectify as they find necessary"

Thats it, thats the hole e-mail..

So help me out here guys.. did they just tell me not to contact them, but to call my reseller?? I just die of laughing right now.. really really I just die.. If I wanted to speak to my reseller I would have called him as he is a great guy but he do not design the rifles for Daystate he do not work for Daystate and do not own Daystate.. I dont want this problem solved just for me.. I want this problem solved for everybody!! so thats why I call Daystate.. to give me a answer and a solution to this problem they pretend not to know about.

I will call my reseller on his birthday!
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Try Wyan Schoonwinkel, Dano - he's the actual daystate technician here and an awesome guy. He'll probably be able to help better than anyone else in SA. 

He recently did work on my red wolf - I got a bad board that was burning out. Replaced it and had it back to me in no time - and this was just before Christmas. 

PM me if you need his number 👍🏻
 
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So I took a dremel to that little hook and effectively removed it entirely. Magazine still functions 100% in the red wolf. Effectively changed its function to be near identical to a JKHan mag, for those who have use those guns.

Fired off a rapid fire 10 shot group at close range with my wife hollering on my ear for help with some random chore and there appears to be significant improvement. No massive flyers at all like before. It'll be next weekend before I can test properly though...

Will post results and photos of groups when I can!
 
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So I took a dremel to that little hook and effectively removed it entirely. Magazine still functions 100% in the red wolf. Effectively changed its function to be near identical to a JKHan mag, for those who have use those guns.

Fired off a rapid fire 10 shot group at close range with my wife hollering on my ear for help with some random chore and there appears to be significant improvement. No massive flyers at all like before. It'll be next weekend before I can test properly though...

Will post results and photos of groups when I can!
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Very interesting. Is it possible the "hook" served some function on past models and in order to preserve in those earlier models it was never removed? Only Daystate would know the answer... I'd like to see them join the discussion.
 
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Hi Hawkeye 👍🏻

Check out my posts earlier to Nomojo - that's exactly what it is for. It serves to catch the magazine drum when drawing back the bolt on the air wolf/air Rangerand older guns.

When you pull back the bolt on those, you also cause a wedge shaped actuator to move back and activate the lever, so this hook was needed to allow the mag to advance one chamber rather than spin out completely. Of course that also meant that the fact that the hook moves into the line of the probe/ chamber didn't matter as the probe was withdrawn. As soon as the probe is pushed forward our problem hook moves down out of the way and other end of the V shaped lever rises catching the drum in alignment in time for the pellet to be pushed forward into the breech. That's why the daystate mags have that characteristic double click noise on each actuation with the drum first catching about 70% of the way, then moving the last 30% or so into alignment when you stop pressing the lever with your finger. On those guns there was nothing happening to the mag at all during the firing cycle.

Of course the pin idea is very clever and allows for the retention of a 'universal' magazine but I think you're bang on in your statement that this issue relates to this backward compatibility- without updating the design adequately to account for two objects (probe and hook) now trying to occupy the same space!





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This is the extremely quick, distracted ten shot group I shot earlier at 20y after filing down the mag. The top right was me - combination of parallax and talking during the shot 😜 the rest of the 9 were about 4.8mm. Not bad considering how much I was being bugged. And especially compared to the previous mag group I posted which was at a few yards closer. 



We'll see this next weekend how 50+ has changed 
 
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"So help me out here guys.. did they just tell me not to contact them, but to call my reseller?? I just die of laughing right now.. really really I just die.. If I wanted to speak to my reseller I would have called him as he is a great guy but he do not design the rifles for Daystate he do not work for Daystate and do not own Daystate.. I dont want this problem solved just for me.. I want this problem solved for everybody!! so thats why I call Daystate.. to give me a answer and a solution to this problem they pretend not to know about."
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If I can add here, in the USA a Daystate reseller is contractually obligated to be the first point of contact and to sort any issue with the gun, as far as I am aware this policy is the same regardless of Country, but I will check anyways.
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Simply put Daystate does not have the physical ability (or Simon to be precise) to answer each and every query relating to issues with their product.
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This may sound strange but is completely normal practice, I work for a US company, we are effectively agents for the product and buy from the factory just as AOA would buy from DAYSTATE, we fund our operation via our margin, if a customer called the factory the enquiry would simply be passed straight back to me, you would not even get a reply to that effect as you did with Simon.
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It's absolutely not the case that they don't want to deal with your problem, but that they physically don't have enough hours in the day, hence the reseller has to do his bit and his profit margin should enable him to have the staff or knowledge to do this, otherwise what is he doing to justify his profit? anyone can ship a box and hand it over ot the customer and wipe their hands of it from then on!
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IME if the reseller cannot solve the issue they will contact DAYSTATE straight away and get it resolved for the customer, for which there are proper channels and methods of reporting potential warranty issues etc.
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It makes me sad to see that you are unhappy with a "part" of what is an exceptional product, as I said I have 5 RW and have had no issues that can't just be luck surely?


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So I took a dremel to that little hook and effectively removed it entirely. Magazine still functions 100% in the red wolf. Effectively changed its function to be near identical to a JKHan mag, for those who have use those guns.

Fired off a rapid fire 10 shot group at close range with my wife hollering on my ear for help with some random chore and there appears to be significant improvement. No massive flyers at all like before. It'll be next weekend before I can test properly though...

Will post results and photos of groups when I can!
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It would be nice to see what little "hook" you're talking about! Looking forward to the pics, please.
 
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"This may explain how as to Tony puts it, 'the majority' of daystate owners aren't having mag issues as I'm sure there are many many sub12fpe owners to dilute the pool"



If I can add in here, I think almost 80% of Daystate product sales are export out of the UK and are where power is not restricted, so the reverse is actually true!
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"If Daystate doesn't step up to make this right I won't ever buy another, that's for certain. I debated buying an Impact versus the Pulsar but the 5 year warranty finally swayed me to pay more for the Daystate, Obviously this is going to affect the resale value of both guns"



IMO if you want an awful and "really hit and miss" magazine buy an FX, the FX mag can have an enormous and detrimental effect on accuraccy, in fact the only mag I have that shoots well in my Crown is the 30 cal, the others at least double or in some cases quadruple the group size when used, again I shoot my Crowns single shot!
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Well, this is what I’m hoping for 1- new redesigned Anti- Double load Mag. That fixes the Identifying problem of probe contact( which I believe is a detriment to accuracy “thanks Dano46” 2- New undamaged probe!, I have a 5yr. Warranty on this rifle “ this DAMAGE was done by factory mag.!” ( one of the reasons I was willing to pay what I did for it! ) I was able to fix mine and a friends! but this is easily fixed from factory! It’s a good design just needs attention to detail for Red Wolf applications!
 
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Also a majority of owners were never aware of the problem to begin with!, and most also don’t have as high a expectation for accuracy at 100yds with the Mag. As I did! This is what can happen when you flood a sponsored, specific long range event with your product and it performs well! Perspective buyers such as I expect that level of performance (with and without mag.) 
 
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