From one Tony to another, thanks 
. Further, can low pressure in the Pulsar bottle harm the gun?
. Further, can low pressure in the Pulsar bottle harm the gun?Upvote 0
DAYSTATE REPORT
- Thread starter aa_limited
- Start date
There is definitely a “known” issue amongst the owners. The factory Buna-n/Nitrile (same thing) 70 durometer orings can’t handle the high power that the HPs are capable of.
My RW HP blew the factory oring within the first 300 rounds with the .22 redesigned Monsters at 51 FPE. I replaced it with a Viton 75 durometer and now have 600 rounds without an issue. Took the oring out and Inspected it after 400 rounds at which time it still looked absolutely new.
Upvote 0
Crusher,
No intent of high jacking this thread but on a completely different application, I had the softer 70duro on the external O-rings on a Huma regulator in my Wildcat giving up because they were soft enough they would flex to the point of being pushed out of the groove ever so slightly with the high pressure behind the first O-ring and starting a leak. I tried some 90duro's which are harder/stiffer and have had zero issues since. Huma has since started shipping this particular regulator with the 90's. Though it's not the same application it might be a similar condition and worth trying a harder material.
Jimmy
No intent of high jacking this thread but on a completely different application, I had the softer 70duro on the external O-rings on a Huma regulator in my Wildcat giving up because they were soft enough they would flex to the point of being pushed out of the groove ever so slightly with the high pressure behind the first O-ring and starting a leak. I tried some 90duro's which are harder/stiffer and have had zero issues since. Huma has since started shipping this particular regulator with the 90's. Though it's not the same application it might be a similar condition and worth trying a harder material.
Jimmy
Upvote 0
Good point about using a harder material for the oring. 90D is too hard for a breech oring though.
Upvote 0
Mr. Tony,
Thanks. So I need not worry ? Any kind of glue works ?
One last question, which wasn't answered by Mr. Simon, it's safe to oil the plunger ? And is the preferred lubricant oil or grease.
Thanks
Zulfiqar
Thanks. So I need not worry ? Any kind of glue works ?
One last question, which wasn't answered by Mr. Simon, it's safe to oil the plunger ? And is the preferred lubricant oil or grease.
Thanks
Zulfiqar
Upvote 0
tony, no, low pressure or no pressure will not harm the rifle, but its a good idea to store with some pressure as it helps keep the integrity of the seals over the long term and not a good idea to dry fire a pcp with no air in it.
reprobate, yes, we would use an engineering adhesive, but whatever you have. grease is better as it wont flow down onto your expensive electronics and dissolved the waterproof coating! Simon is currently on Holiday in Arabia.
not aware of that breech seal problem but i would have thought it smart to use a harder o-ring, its just that I'm not sure what we use at the moment as we frequently use N90 for many applications anyway, ill ask in the morning.
Regards
Tony
reprobate, yes, we would use an engineering adhesive, but whatever you have. grease is better as it wont flow down onto your expensive electronics and dissolved the waterproof coating! Simon is currently on Holiday in Arabia.
not aware of that breech seal problem but i would have thought it smart to use a harder o-ring, its just that I'm not sure what we use at the moment as we frequently use N90 for many applications anyway, ill ask in the morning.
Regards
Tony
Upvote 0
I have gone to Viton 75 hardness in all my guns and have yet had an issue. My RW HP also ate the OEM breech rings like mad. I shoot it on hi power a lot with JSB 25gr redesigned. Love the RW HP, it has kinda put me on the back burner for another PCP. Why would I want to go backwards?
Upvote 0
Yep Daystate. Look at this thread and the one in PCP. LOTS of people are blowing up the nitrile o'rings. The gun makes enough pressure to shred the factory o'ring. I tried the buna 90 and they are just too hard to seal the probe well. I have done what everyone else is saying works and went to a Viton 75 last week and so far it is good. I put about 300 shots through it today and had no problems. I'll report back if this one breaks.
I wonder how this is happening so much and you haven't heard much about it ???? Well, good for this forum !! We are helping you
Crusher
I wonder how this is happening so much and you haven't heard much about it ???? Well, good for this forum !! We are helping you
Crusher
Upvote 0
As I said, I will check in the morning. Its morning and I have checked They are using a N70 as they have done on every high power rifle up to date . Trials on red wolf which involved many thousands of shots didn't flag this and even when I asked they were doing a batch of this very gun and they had not had a problem - see picture below which just happened to be on test when I asked.
So while I enjoy the challenge of being told that we are making faulty guns in one breath and then being asked and what are we doing about it in the next, its not being seen here.
Feed this back to AofA and see what they say. Maybe it's a local issue, special abrasive pellets or lube ? Don't know, but now we are aware we will monitor this closer.
Tony
So while I enjoy the challenge of being told that we are making faulty guns in one breath and then being asked and what are we doing about it in the next, its not being seen here.
Feed this back to AofA and see what they say. Maybe it's a local issue, special abrasive pellets or lube ? Don't know, but now we are aware we will monitor this closer.
Tony
Upvote 0
Thank you for checking, Tony. Everyone that I know of is using JSB pellets and not some unknown “abrasive” projectile. I can’t speak for others but I use a little silicone grease that is manufactured for orings.
I have not said you are making faulty guns. I am obviously a fan. I purchased this Red Wolf and spent a lot of funds in doing so. I’ve also competed with it and had good results thereby promoting this product.
My motive here is to help other owners and to inform the manufacturer that you could remedy an issue we are having by simply switching orings in the breech. I’m not asking for you to send me anything or do anything else for me. Have a great afternoon.
I have not said you are making faulty guns. I am obviously a fan. I purchased this Red Wolf and spent a lot of funds in doing so. I’ve also competed with it and had good results thereby promoting this product.
My motive here is to help other owners and to inform the manufacturer that you could remedy an issue we are having by simply switching orings in the breech. I’m not asking for you to send me anything or do anything else for me. Have a great afternoon.
Upvote 0
Mr Daystate Sir,
No one is claiming you make faulty airguns. I have spent at least $3000 on this airgun because I have confidence in your company and in your ability to make one of the world's best airguns. We are simply asking for help with an issue we find in the real world. In house testing can only show so much about a product and it is clear that in real world conditions, things CAN be different. So don't take it personally when we tell you that we experience something different than what your in house testing shows. We are simply pointing out that we are having an issue and asking for your help.
Crusher
No one is claiming you make faulty airguns. I have spent at least $3000 on this airgun because I have confidence in your company and in your ability to make one of the world's best airguns. We are simply asking for help with an issue we find in the real world. In house testing can only show so much about a product and it is clear that in real world conditions, things CAN be different. So don't take it personally when we tell you that we experience something different than what your in house testing shows. We are simply pointing out that we are having an issue and asking for your help.
Crusher
Upvote 0
OK crusher sorry if I cam across as defensive AofA tell us their is a problem, so there is a problem and we are looking into it Yes we can order in vitron orings but we need to test first. As I said every single gun fires about 2-300 pellets in test and we haven't seen it and AofA confirm that the rifles arrive with them o rings intact So maybe it's a problem at 300 plus on most guns, but not all?
We will get to the bottom of it pretty quick though thanks everyone for the suggestions.
We will get to the bottom of it pretty quick though thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Upvote 0
That sounds reasonable. Another inspection point your Engineers could review is the barrel o-ring groove cut. Perhaps on some, maybe not all, of the HP air rifles the groove is sharp edged and doesn't have a slight chamfer which could end up cutting into the o-ring over time with high powered shots like using the .22 Beasts (34 grain) at over 50 FPE. This may just occur when shooting the RW at high power and causing the o-ring to rub as the gun is shot and break over time... Just a thought.
Mike
Mike
Upvote 0
The down side of reading posts and not speaking in person I guess. I thoroughly enjoy my Daystate guns and currently own 3 and plan on buying more. I now know to just change the oring upon arrival and all is well. If this is all I can have go wrong after 3 guns and countless thousands of pellets no biggie.
Tony,
During your testing are you shooting the .22cal HP guns on hi power for thousands of shots with 25gr pellets? That's what I had issues with.
34gr in my .25cal Renegade HP did it as well. Maybe the heavier weight is putting more stress on the oring than your testing? Just a thought. Keep up the good work and can't wait to see what you bring out next. A bottle Electronic Bullpup would be nice.
Tony,
During your testing are you shooting the .22cal HP guns on hi power for thousands of shots with 25gr pellets? That's what I had issues with.
34gr in my .25cal Renegade HP did it as well. Maybe the heavier weight is putting more stress on the oring than your testing? Just a thought. Keep up the good work and can't wait to see what you bring out next. A bottle Electronic Bullpup would be nice.
Upvote 0
Good point Hookster. To add to this, are you test shooting indoors with A/C? If so, that's not a real world test. I am shooting, this time of year, in temperatures at or approaching 100F.
Upvote 0
ZX, that is kind of what I was alluding to. Texas is hot. I also experience the 25 gr vs 34 gr difference. If I shoot the 34's on HI with the stock o'ring, I might not even finish out the one fill. I've looked at the o'ring groove as close as I can with a hand magnifying glass to see if I could notice any inconsistencies in the edge and I don't see anything unusual about it. But it does seem to have a slightly squarer edge than some of my other AG's.
So far, the Viton seems to be the answer. I have about 500 shots on it now and yesterday I shot maybe 150 of the 34's. That wasn't possible with the nitrile.
I also experience the 25 gr vs 34 gr difference. If I shoot the 34's on HI with the stock o'ring, I might not even finish out the one fill. I've looked at the o'ring groove as close as I can with a hand magnifying glass to see if I could notice any inconsistencies in the edge and I don't see anything unusual about it. But it does seem to have a slightly squarer edge than some of my other AG's. So far, the Viton seems to be the answer. I have about 500 shots on it now and yesterday I shot maybe 150 of the 34's. That wasn't possible with the nitrile.
Upvote 0
No worries at all. I totally understand that these are "your babies" and to be protective of your product is normal. I appreciate you taking the time to monitor this forum. Sometimes we airgunners are very opinionated on what we like and don't like. And in printed text, I can miss the real meaning of the message. So No worries.
Crusher
Upvote 0