Derrick Wall Shoots a Perfect EFT Score!

[Franklink]

Sorry I've been missing in action, Y'all.

Attached is the TEXtreme course Difficulty Factor information according to Cole's EFT Difficulty chart. Be aware I wasn't sure what the multiplier should be for standing shots, so I used a 1.5X multiplier on the Standing Lane 4 (bipod employed). Otherwise I'm confident in the accuracy of the information. IF my standing shot multiplier is correct, the TFT course Derrick cleaned is equivalent difficulty to AAFTA National Championship courses.

Spread-sheet wizards are welcome to extrapolate anything they like from this information, and post it.




View attachment 288634

AWESOME!!! Thank you Ron.

I arrived at the same T as you did (33.5), if considering standing bipod as offhand. And I agree, calculating the offhand is a bit tricky, especially taking into account supported offhand (bipod) versus unsupported offhand (no bipod like we have been doing for the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club XFT matches).

For the AZ match reports, I'll often include a T calculated without the offhand, mostly because that lane has been so....controversy-laden.

The other tricky one is how to account for the wind. I usually don't, just for the sake of simplicity. We're just all aware that gusts up around 20mph can make it much harder to get a pellet in the kz than gentle < 3mph air movements.

Anyway, for comparison's sake, in AZ we started out with average Ts for the courses that were up in the high 30's-low 40's and those were just demoralizing experiences. Through trial and error Ben found that a course with a T in the low 30s is just about right for most folks to knock down enough targets to feel good about themselves, but also have a challenging experience. Looks like the same has been realized out in TX.

So, the TX Sept 3 match that was the original topic here? The match was no gimme and Derrick EARNED that perfect score. Congrats to him (again).

(this is why the Troyer factor is such a useful tool, it provides context for the scores, for the shooters and for any and all interested parties)

 

[AirNGasman]

With the Troyer multipliers for AAFTA FT being 1.5X for kneeling and 1.75X for standing offhand, and also based my own experience, I feel EFT bipod-aided standing pretty comparable in difficulty to AAFTA kneeling (when I could kneel; now have to shoot kneeling lanes standing). That also seems to be about how it's played out in my TFT matches.

I also design my course difficulties without factoring in multipliers, despite Ranchito Robinson's well-deserved reputation for almost always having very challenging to brutal winds. Saturday's match was the first TFT match I can recall not having winds that would qualify for the 1.25X AAFTA wind qualifier.

Not to take anything away from Derrick's perfect score, mind you. The man did it on an AAFTA National Championships difficulty course. Should he ever do it in winds 'normal' to my venue, will confirm for certain my long-standing suspicions The 'Man' is no man at all; rather, a space alien!

 

[zx10wall]

AWESOME!!! Thank you Ron.

So, the TX Sept 3 match that was the original topic here? The match was no gimme and Derrick EARNED that perfect score. Congrats to him (again).

(this is why the Troyer factor is such a useful tool, it provides context for the scores, for the shooters and for any and all interested parties)

It’s a tough course. All who have competed at Ranchito Robinson knew that without any troyer confirmation. That said, I love to see the data. Thank you, Ron.

Ron knows what he’s doing. Rather than demoralize with over difficult courses, he’s actually increased difficulty over time.

As far as supported standing (bipod use), this is how it’s been done from the beginning of Extreme FT (originally coined American FT) Ron is following that lead and why wouldn’t he being the roots and pinnacle of the sport is EBR’s Extreme FT which is how they do it?

For the Sept 3 course cleaning, winds were lighter than usual. It was time. I hope to get it done again some day, in fact, I have faith that I will.

I really hope this sport grows. Target manufacturing and availability to purchase are highly needed. New courses and growth cannot occur without this. Build them, they will sell.

Let’s all make a conscious effort to put ego aside when focusing on growing this please. Think of the greater good rather than your opinion. I just want to compete with the best on the planet. A scoring system to rank shooters would be awesome.

Y’all be good. Later

 

[Franklink]

Couldn't agree with you more, on all accounts.

There's been lots of us versus them and picking sides and just flat out bickering. Really we're all on the same side here, or at least all of us that enjoys it and wants others to also get to share in the fun are on the same side (and have no ulterior motives)

The only reason I've been so vocal is because so much of the foundation is being laid by such a small minority of the players. I try to be the voice of the little guy, or rather, the voice of the the potential new guy that comes into this and wants to play a fair game where everyone has an equal chance at participating and winning and being recognized for excelling.

If the greater good is the focus we should push for a democratic governing organization where the only people calling the shots would be the match directors. You only get a seat at the table of the governing board if you're an XFT/EFT match director. And each one of them takes a turn serving a 6 month? term as the leader of the board of (match directors). And the md of any new club that starts EFT matches gets an automatic seat on the board, if that MD and his/her shooters want to be part of it anyway. Each MD/board member would take a vote of active shooters that are participating in their matches, and THAT would be how decisions are made. What we have now is a far cry from that, but I feel that's what would serve the greater good.


And of course care would have to be taken to not allow token match directors where theyre MD in name only, just to get around the board member = MD requirements.

 

[Centercut]

Both the above posts are good. I do think at times we confuse EFT matches with the GP series. That for each club that wants to have a GP only one two days match per year is required. If done monthly that means 11 club matches can be held however the MD deems fit. Apples and Oranges, but both types of matches are necessary. As far as GP travel, the EFT can be grown with multiple clubs in geographic areas like AZ and TX each having their own GP event. I also agree with Derrick, this isn’t AAFTA and we can set forced positions lanes however we want. Standing with a bipod seems fair to all IMHO.
Good discussion.

 

[Nofilters]

Both the above posts are good. I do think at times we confuse EFT matches with the GP series. That for each club that wants to only one two days match per year. If done monthly that means 11 matches can be held however the MD deems fit. Apples and Oranges, but both types of matches are necessary. As far as GP travel, the EFT can be grown with multiple clubs in geographic areas like AZ and TX each having their own GP event. I also agree with Derrick, this isn’t AAFTA and we can set forced positions lanes however we want. Standing with a bipod seems fair to all IMHO.
Good discussion.

How about standing with a mono pod. Seems more like off hand difficulty level than bipod/bench like. I have stated from the beginning that having vendors doing more than sponsoring gives the appearance and feel as they are steering the ship. I have also stated from the very first meeting about uniformity on targets and the match directors being a voting arm of their constituents. I have also said that a house with an unsound foundation doesn’t last long and the windows and doors may not work right at all times. My vision over 6 years ago was that this discipline has the potential to be bigger than NRL22. I pestered Robert to allow me to prove to him it was more than a once a year “novelty shoot”. My next project is to convince him that since it is fastest event to fillEVERY year at EBR that the prize fund should also represent that passion put forth by the shooters. We as a group need to be cautious and caring on our forward progress. We all want to see it grow but the end does not and should not justify the means. My 2 cents

 

[Franklink]

Match director should be able to run a GP that they're putting on however they see fit too.

 

[Franklink]

Both the above posts are good. I do think at times we confuse EFT matches with the GP series. That for each club that wants to have a GP only one two days match per year is required. If done monthly that means 11 club matches can be held however the MD deems fit. Apples and Oranges, but both types of matches are necessary. As far as GP travel, the EFT can be grown with multiple clubs in geographic areas like AZ and TX each having their own GP event. I also agree with Derrick, this isn’t AAFTA and we can set forced positions lanes however we want. Standing with a bipod seems fair to all IMHO.
Good discussion.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Match directors, or a governing board of match directors, are the only appropriate person's, or group of persons, to be making decisions regarding a grand prix circuit. They're the ones putting in the work. They're the ones with a direct connection and communication back to the shooters they represent, the shooters that compete at each of their respective matches.

An impartial organizing body where the voice of all shooters can be heard (or at least represented by their MD at the board of MDs) is what I'm calling for. And that encompasses all aspects of extreme field target.

 

[Podna]

It was mentioned somewhere in this thread (or maybe a different one on the same subject) but I want to emphasize something.

Derrick went to his last two lanes with a "clean" scorecard. Next to the last lane (lane 4) was standing with sticks which is NOT easy I don't care what anyone says. That lane is also the second most affected by wind at Ranchito Robinson. Yep, lane cleaned, done and dusted! What did the barber say? "NEXT"!!

OK, last lane, lane 5. The near target is a prairie dog with 2" kill zone. Nasty little bastard! The highest Troyer factor on the course at 41.6. By now it is 5:00 PM or so and it is hot (94-95 ish) with humidity somewhere around 70%. Can you feel the sweat running down your forehead into your eyes? The wind has also picked up a bit, enough to matter. Like a full kill zone width matter.

Derrick is thinking to himself, wow! "I can clean this course for the first time ever, by anyone." Of course I made that up but I bet I'm close. Anyway, he takes a seat, gets a sight picture, and pew pew pew, another prairie dog bites the dust.

One more target, a deer at 82 yards fixin to jump behind a tree. The tree that has been shot so many times due to wind that it will probably fall pretty soon! The deer has misses all over it by now, about 23 of them if my math is right. Derrick sees those pellet marks and thinks, "dang, that target is easy to miss", no worries. He wipes the sweat out of his steely eyes, takes a deep breath, and gives glory to God. Three pellets, three hits, course cleaned!

How do figure in nerves on the Troyer scale? I'd say at least a factor of 1.5!

Way to go Derrick!

Art "Podna" Womack
Team Wolfpack
@art.of.airgunning

 

[thomasair]

I’m betting the biggest impediment for growth is the cost and hassle of the targets. Spinners or bells would do away with many of the hassles. Make the game easy for match directors and it will be more likely to flourish.

Mike

 

[wolfmangreg]

It was mentioned somewhere in this thread (or maybe a different one on the same subject) but I want to emphasize something.

Derrick went to his last two lanes with a "clean" scorecard. Next to the last lane (lane 4) was standing with sticks which is NOT easy I don't care what anyone says. That lane is also the second most affected by wind at Ranchito Robinson. Yep, lane cleaned, done and dusted! What did the barber say? "NEXT"!!

OK, last lane, lane 5. The near target is a prairie dog with 2" kill zone. Nasty little bastard! The highest Troyer factor on the course at 41.6. By now it is 5:00 PM or so and it is hot (94-95 ish) with humidity somewhere around 70%. Can you feel the sweat running down your forehead into your eyes? The wind has also picked up a bit, enough to matter. Like a full kill zone width matter.

Derrick is thinking to himself, wow! "I can clean this course for the first time ever, by anyone." Of course I made that up but I bet I'm close. Anyway, he takes a seat, gets a sight picture, and pew pew pew, another prairie dog bites the dust.

One more target, a deer at 82 yards fixin to jump behind a tree. The tree that has been shot so many times due to wind that it will probably fall pretty soon! The deer has misses all over it by now, about 23 of them if my math is right. Derrick sees those pellet marks and thinks, "dang, that target is easy to miss", no worries. He wipes the sweat out of his steely eyes, takes a deep breath, and gives glory to God. Three pellets, three hits, course cleaned!

How do figure in nerves on the Troyer scale? I'd say at least a factor of 1.5!

Way to go Derrick!

Art "Podna" Womack
Team Wolfpack
@art.of.airgunning

AGN be advised- Derick Wall is a steely eyed missile man

 

[Centercut]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Match directors, or a governing board of match directors, are the only appropriate person's, or group of persons, to be making decisions regarding a grand prix circuit. They're the ones putting in the work. They're the ones with a direct connection and communication back to the shooters they represent, the shooters that compete at each of their respective matches.

An impartial organizing body where the voice of all shooters can be heard (or at least represented by their MD at the board of MDs) is what I'm calling for. And that encompasses all aspects of extreme field target.

Agree to agree to disagree. No worries. We currently have nothing that says the MD can’t solicit input from his club members before he gives an opinion or vote on a matter. But, if a MD fails to even vote or give an opinion? Then what?

From @Franklink “An impartial organizing body where the voice of all shooters can be heard (or at least represented by their MD at the board of MDs) is what I'm calling for.”

What you’re calling for is already the current policy. Why would this currently not be true? An informal survey shows the majority of the 2022 EFT GP season MDs are satisfied with the current makeup of the BOD members. Some MD’s take the democratic path, some don’t. It’s up to them. Currently for 2022 GP season NOTHING was preventing the MDs from taking a vote from their members and then presenting that opinion to the BOD. Obviously this needs to be done expeditiously since every decision can’t take a month or two IMHO.

 

[Centercut]

I’m betting the biggest impediment for growth is the cost and hassle of the targets. Spinners or bells would do away with many of the hassles. Make the game easy for match directors and it will be more likely to flourish.

Mike

True dat. And the Oregon GP event does exactly that. No reason a club can’t start with spinners. Knock downs are more positive but spinners are a reasonable substitute.

 

[Franklink]

What you’re calling for is already the current policy.

FALSE.

Currently we've got you and a retailer calling the shots.

And of course you'll deny it, which only makes a case for greater transparency.

 

[Centercut]

FALSE.

Currently we've got you and a retailer calling the shots.

And of course you'll deny it, which only makes a case for greater transparency.

Totally false. But you wouldn’t know now would you? Sorry to upset your version of reality.

FYI just to make you feel better Reardon, there are 7 people on the BOD for EFT GP. The four MDs, AZ, OR, TX, UT plus the Team Captain-of the Wolf Pack, me, and the MD of EBR/ lead sponsor/ AoA. That’s what I admit to. I don’t understand why that upsets you or why you need to put me down. What did I ever do to you? Why do you feel it necessary to call me a liar Reardon? All we all want is to grow the EFT sport across the USA.. I’m truly sorry to disappoint you..

Would you like to be the Players Rep on the BOD? I’ll bring it up for a vote at our next BOD meeting after EBR. Cole Reardon as “players rep”. Maybe then you can see reality vice the one sided story you’ve been told… Are you willing to walk the walk?

 

[Franklink]

What I said I was calling for is that the governing board be comprised of only the MDs.

You just described the current board that makes national decisions for EFT. And it is not a board comprised of only MDs, therefore your statement that what Im calling for is already in place is, false.

 

[Franklink]

And no, I'm not wanting to be a players rep. There isnt one now, by the way. Nor is there one in the organizational structure I suggested.

 

[Franklink]

Current structure (which nobody voted on) has 3 of the 7 members with conflicts of interest/financial skin in the game.

 

[Centercut]

What I said I was calling for is that the governing board be comprised of only the MDs.

You just described the current board that makes national decisions for EFT. And it is not a board comprised of only MDs, therefore your statement that what Im calling for is already in place is, false.

That’s what YOU feel is the correct way to do this. ONE MD agrees with you, the other THREE don’t. So while your opinion is appreciated, the majority are happy with the current path we are taking. Not sure what else I can say.
So yes, we are not doing what YOU called for. Sorry about that. Again, do you want to walk the walk as Players Rep?

 

[0akhonor]

Amazing, and if anyone was going to do it, it'd be you. The work you've done on my Uragan shows me the high level of attention you bring to a rifles setup- but the shooter makes the ultimate difference.