New HW30s at UPS and being delivered today. (From Krale). I have read a lot here at Airgun Nation and I see "Dieseling" mentioned. Some say it's no problem and others say to clean the barrel before I shoot it the first time. If it occurs is it a puff of white smoke coming out of the muzzle as you shoot the rifle? Thanks .
Other Dieseling ?
- Thread starter Tarheel
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I got a hatsan 95qe. All the cleaning and krytox and still ...
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Portrayed actual shooting of it ..
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Smoke em' if you've got 'em.
Those H@t$ans are either bone dry or swimming in gravy. I just hang them in the corner for a week and let all the juice drip out before I take them out of the stock. I have a spot on the floor that looks like I parked the backhoe for a month.
The smoke from the Turkish massage cream they use is an aphrodisiac. Get yourself a big hit of it before you go to the cowboy dance. Dab a little behind your ears. Watch the ladies go wild.
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I thought dieseling was the result of burning lubricants in the compression tube, not the barrel. How do cleaning solvents burn in the barrel? Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
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Oil under pressure burns. Dieseling can occur anywhere there is enough pressure. When that piston slams it pressures up everything behind the pellet.
There can be more oil and more pressure in the comp tube for sure. So diseling and DETONATION occurs there first. But it also occurs in an oily barrel.
"Dieseling" is vapor lingering after the shot. "Detonation" is when it pops because the burning oils cause more pressure.
Different oils vaporize at different pressures. The stuff they use in a comp tube is pretty stable. The stuff you clean a barrel with is not. It diesels (burns) easily. After a few shots the stuff in the comp tube is (ideally) burned off. Every time you clean your barrel you coat it with oils that are going to vaporize and "diesel" a bit.
The goo they put in the barrel after manufacturing is nasty waxy stuff. It gets down into the nap of the metal and can't be all cleaned out. It takes a good cleaning, a hundred shots and another good cleaning and polishing to get it all out. It "diesels" too.
So "detonation" is extreme "dieseling" and dieseling is smoke or vapor lingering after the shot. Both can occur in the comp tube or the barrel. Excessive dieseling is an indication of a fire (detonation) somewhere. In the comp tube it will destroy a seal. In the barrel it's less critical.
To keep dieseling down in the barrel get all the oil out of it after cleaning. A couple dry patches will do it. A patch damp with acetone really strips the oil out but is probably unnecessary. As long as the bore isn't swimming in oil a couple shots will take care of it.
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I had the fumes seep in to the compression tube/ or sucked in cocking it ? from cleaning the barrel. Lol. Nice crack when shot ..
. Just more crazy airgun stuff ..lol Upvote 0
I think oil passes by the seals from the rear when you cock the gun. Especially if there's a lot of thin oil in the tube behind the piston. If it's wet back there they never completely quit smoking.
Some seals may scrape it back better than others. Some may fit tighter. Some oils may migrate faster. I think they all smoke a little to some extent. I don't have a pellet rifle that dosent do it a little.
My H@t$ans all had lots of thin oil and seem to do it the worst. The HW's have thicker lubricant and do it a lot less. There is bound to be a correlation there.
Some seals may scrape it back better than others. Some may fit tighter. Some oils may migrate faster. I think they all smoke a little to some extent. I don't have a pellet rifle that dosent do it a little.
My H@t$ans all had lots of thin oil and seem to do it the worst. The HW's have thicker lubricant and do it a lot less. There is bound to be a correlation there.
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So I have a Gamo Hunter in .22. I cleaned the barrel after a few test shots because it was dieseling.
After cleaning it. It shot well for another 40-50 shots. Back to Dieseling
Guess I’ll clean it again. But where is the fresh oil coming from
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So I have a Gamo Hunter in .22. I cleaned the barrel after a few test shots because it was dieseling.
After cleaning it. It shot well for another 40-50 shots. Back to Dieseling
Guess I’ll clean it again. But where is the fresh oil coming from
Behind the seal? From an obturated or scored comp tube? Cracked or split seal?
Like I say, all mine do it a little. My only theory is thin lube getting in front of the seal. Or maybe just vapor from rapid compression/decompression? I honestly don't know.
Whenever I see a little smoke and start pondering where it came from I drink beer. It seems to help. Nothing else I've tried has.
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When I studied Tribology a little more, I concluded that for AG (all parts) the best option is a high-quality, long-life assembly paste NLGI 1-2 with Tungsten disulfide, MoS2, Hexagonal boron nitride, Graphite. So I came across a very affordable Liqui Moly LM48 paste and paid about $7 for a small package and have done dozens of services with it successfully. I also tried PTFE lubricants, but they are not as good and are also expensive (and poisoned)...
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Its coming from the compression chamber. Dieseling comes from high compression of petroleum based lubricants. There's no compression pressure in front of the pellet and pressure behind it drops quickly as it moves down the barrel. Lubricant in the barrel isn't the main cause of dieseling. Its the lubricant between the piston an pellet. Its usually from a gun being terribly over lubricated or doesn't seal well because of a damaged seal or compromised compression tube. If it doesn't clear up with use it should be taken apart and looked at.So I have a Gamo Hunter in .22. I cleaned the barrel after a few test shots because it was dieseling.
After cleaning it. It shot well for another 40-50 shots. Back to Dieseling
Guess I’ll clean it again. But where is the fresh oil coming from
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This sounds like the perfect stuff.
Hexagonal boron nitride is supposed to be the best treatment for barrels and lead projectiles. I was tempted to treat a barrel and a hundred pellets and see if it increased velocity/accuracy.
It seems perfectly suited to piston and seal lubrication as well. I think you can add it to assembly grease just like moly dust.
You could treat the comp tube with it just like a barrel before assembly. Then use it in the grease. Then shoot a hundred pellets down a treated bore. It is evidently like moly only better and longer lasting.
You probably wouldn't want to get any on a scope or scope rings....
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After 100 shots and two thorough cleanings, My HW95's accuracy is still horrible. One inch groups at 10M. HW must make up some kind of grease out of road tar and filler from the scrapings at Mt. Vesuvious. Methinks it's time to take it apart and clean it. May as well put a spring kit in it too.
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I've only had one HW rifle that wasn't accurate. After 1000 shots in 4 days I sent it back for replacement. I figured I can deal with spring issues but no use dealing with a bad barrel or crown on a new rifle. A kit isn't going to fix that.
100 shots is not enough break in. Unless it's detonating or smoking bad just shoot the heck out of it. No paper. A couple beer cans and a tin of pellets (at least). Then clean it and go to paper. If you can't get it to stack pellets or produce consistent velocity then you have a problem.
I bet the thing drives tacks. You just don't know it yet.
I've shot 2 HW rifles for a couple years and both have had spring replacements under warranty. I've accepted the fact that if I'm going to shoot them regularly they need better seals, springs and guides than the factory provides. A kit seems to be the best solution. It's an extra expense for an already expensive rifle but they are sweet shooters once you get them sorted out.
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Lol.. are the stock screws still in it ? Man I never had that bad unless the stock was plumb falling off loose ..
Now my latest r9 shot bad left and I found it had some hard jb weld looking stuff in the rifling . A good spot of it at the breech block and maybe a 1/4" just below the muzzle .
Took 3 days of soaking it in solvent , draining that out scrubbing refilling soaking .... Ect .....
Anyway if just erratic shots like your saying. I'd think bad loose stock or breech bolt / lock up issue
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I forgot if scoped then your scope good ,/ not rattled out or not falling off / slipping around ?
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The stock screws were the first thing I looked at. They were ok. I cleaned the barrel twice, the second time included polishing with JB Bore paste. I pushed a slug through it and the rifling grooves in the slug looked clean and uniform. Right now, I'm shooting with the factory iron sights. Regardless, the shot scatter shouldn't be this bad. Vortek spring kit is on the way. BTW, I bought this used from AOA. It looks brand new and spotless on the outside. I'll bet it was returned for it's not so good accuracy.
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May I suggest that you chrono before you take your rifle apart so you have a bench mark to check afterwards. My HW95 average about 17 FPE with a 10 shot spread of 9 FPS. This is with an ARH kit + Vortek seal & 7K to 10K shots. 5 at 25 from a table with bags.
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I suppose a seal might affect accuracy. It's been my experience that the HW95 shoots great no matter how bad the spring and seal is. A kit will get longer life and a better shot cycle for sure. It's not likely to correct an accuracy issue as bad as what you describe.
If it's shooting consistently at a reasonable velocity your accuracy problem is not tied to the powerplant.
If it's shooting consistently at a reasonable velocity your accuracy problem is not tied to the powerplant.
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Well are you shooting rested or free hand / standing? With the r9 my freehand standing is maybe 1" at 10mm group on a good day
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Poor results
R9 at 30 yard on stock irons with cphp.177. i need to work on my hold and squinting and narrow down the fliers. ... Oh well...
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