Do I Have a Scope Problem?

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Cmiller

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Sep 2, 2018
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I have an Aztec Emerald 5 - 25 x 50 that I've had for a few years. It's mounted on my HW97. I've had periodic issues with sudden shifts in POI. It's good for an extended period then it will suddenly drift or shift to a different POI. I've looked at other potential problems such as loose scope mounts or rings, shifts in muzzle velocity, etc. Sometimes I think I've found the cause but then it happens again. It is frustrating the heck out of me. I spend all my time testing the scope. I have changed to another cheaper scope I have and have not seen problems with the other scope, but I don't shoot it for a long time because I don't like the coarse reticle and parallax issues.

The image below illustrates a puzzling shift in poi. It's not the worst I've seen but it is a decent illustration. I was changing from shooting JSB 8.44 pellets to the heavy 10.34 grain pellets and re-zeroing the scope. It had been shooting normally for about thirty shots prior to this change. I've numbered the shots I took as I worked on zeroing the scope for the heavier pellet. I made an initial vertical adjustment of about 7 clicks to account for the bigger drop then started shooting. See the image below to track the process. I made one adjustment after the first two shots were right on top of one another. Then there were a lot of rather random seeming shots as I tried to confirm the adjustment. Then suddenly on shot 14 and 15 the POI jumps up a good two MOA. After the second one hit in the same spot I adjusted the scope back down and took a number of more shots to try to confirm that change. I finally got tired of messing with the zero and started shooting individual shots at the remaining targets. I shot at least 25 individual shots, all of which were pretty much on target.

So what would explain that big shift and then a solid consistent zero? The scope rings were torqued to spec. The rifle is shooting a reasonable consistent muzzle velocity. How do I explain a two MOA shift?

scope zero.jpg
 
Well... Could be scope , mount, stock or your inconsistent hold ..lol

Movement is movement you got to work up from anything that could move or slip or giggle./ Looseness.

Bad thing and one of my things is I never buy guns without sights. You got no easy firm / solid backup sighting with out buying or having a known solid scope .. if it's consistent on it's irons then it's more then likely mount/ rings or busted scope .. .. opinion
 
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I was wondering the same thing. I’m not sure though. 🤣
624A564F-6EEB-42AC-B177-781970CA8520.jpeg

shifting during shots ,especially after 10 or more is usually a seal issue,1 (piston ) first check

then 2 breech. seal

then scope.

first thing is change scope as you did and if it goes away bust The scope open for its front loop to work on shat ,throw the rest away. Or if it’s warrantied , send it in.

if it don’t , go away with another scope. Go to the 1rst thing I said , then #2.
 
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Cmiller said:
Another clue might be that I had the scope perfectly zeroed so I zeroed the turrets. A couple days later and my zero is over three MOA higher with the same pellets. My vertical turret is 13 clicks higher than the previous zero
Click to expand...

does the gun hold groups with another scope .
Seals are finicky. Hw seals are known to burn and act up


breech seals on under levers are known issues of leaks. Heat swells them and shooting heats them up

when advice is offered, It’s worth looking not ,especially if it does it with two different scopes.
 
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Stubbers said:
Is this scope rated for springers?

From deducing that this gun has broken this scope model already once, and then likely again, it appears it may not be?

-Matt
Click to expand...
Yes, the scope is rated for springers. I'm still trying to figure out if the problem is the scope or something else. It seems unlikely that two springer rated scopes with a lifetime warranty would fail so I'm looking for other causes.
 
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A.G.R said:
does the gun hold groups with another scope .
Seals are finicky. Hw seals are known to burn and act up


breech seals on under levers are known issues of leaks. Heat swells them and shooting heats them up

when advice is offered, It’s worth looking not ,especially if it does it with two different scopes.
Click to expand...
Right now I'm going to shoot exclusively with another scope to see if the problem appears again. It's a cheap scope, but if the zero holds, then I have to assume it's the other scope. I'll have to shoot probably a couple of hundred times to have real confidence that the scope is the issue.
 
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Cmiller said:
Yes, the scope is rated for springers. I'm still trying to figure out if the problem is the scope or something else. It seems unlikely that two springer rated scopes with a lifetime warranty would fail so I'm looking for other causes.
Click to expand...

'Shock proof' doesn't necessitate that its springer rated or will survive long term on springers. However if the manufacturer states they're springer rated, and you come to the conclusion your hw97 is damaging them, I would personally assume the manufacturer is just...wrong, warranty it again, and keep it off springers or sell it, there is a decent knowledge base as to what scopes can handle springers with some google-fu.

If you come to the conclusion this effect occurs with every scope you throw on it, I'd be scratching my head.

-Matt
 
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Cmiller said:
Yes, the scope is rated for springers. I'm still trying to figure out if the problem is the scope or something else. It seems unlikely that two springer rated scopes with a lifetime warranty would fail so I'm looking for other causes.
Click to expand...
@Cmiller Where did you find this information? On the AOA site, I only read that it is a shockproof rated scope. AOA is the main shop I have seen promoting this brand.
IMG_6223.jpeg

I do not believe that “shockproof” means “springer rated.” I’m under the impression that the term corresponds to an unspecified recoil rating with a caliber/cartridge limit.


Below is a link to Aztec Emerald Owner’s Manual. I may have missed something, but I didn’t see anything about shockproof or a springer rating after glossing over the owner’s manual. Based upon what I’ve read in these two links, I conclude that you’re probably tearing up a scope that’s not built to be used on the type of gun you’re mounting them on.


I suggest that you consider visiting and searching through some AGN threads in the “Traditional Airguns” forum to see what other springer owners and competitors use for reliable springer rated optics.
 
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I had an Athlon Helos that had a POI shift after making a parallax adjustment and shooting it some. It was the parallax adjustment sticking and then randomly freeing up the tube inside. In the freezing cold weather it would audibly clunk when the stiction let go and then came to rest. It made two distinct groups before and after the move.
 
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Cmiller said:
Another clue might be that I had the scope perfectly zeroed so I zeroed the turrets. A couple days later and my zero is over three MOA higher with the same pellets. My vertical turret is 13 clicks higher than the previous zero.
Click to expand...
One thing I would eliminate is the barrel, give it a good cleaning then try again. I had a problem similar when I shot crosman pellets and my bore would get fouled. The groups would drop and or spread out. After a cleaning, my accuracy would come back. Also I would recommend not chasing it with adjusting your turrets. Just keep shooting and try other stuff, chasing the zero never works. Check for any loose screws, try a different scope.
Put it away and try again tomorrow.
 
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Cmiller said:
Right now I'm going to shoot exclusively with another scope to see if the problem appears again. It's a cheap scope, but if the zero holds, then I have to assume it's the other scope. I'll have to shoot probably a couple of hundred times to have real confidence that the scope is the issue.
Click to expand...
Also if you adjust the scope way off of optical center the spring is stretched, and it will be more prone to move with the springer recoil.
 
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Ezana4CE said:
@Cmiller Where did you find this information? On the AOA site, I only read that it is a shock or off rated scope. AOA is the main shop I have seen promoting this brand.
View attachment 494623
I do not believe that “shockproof” means “springer rated.” I’m under the impression that the term corresponds to an unspecified recoil rating with a caliber/cartridge limit.


Below is a link to Aztec Emerald Owner’s Manual. I may have missed something, but I didn’t see anything about shockproof or a springer rating after glossing over the owner’s manual. Based upon what I’ve read in these two links, I conclude that you’re probably tearing up a scope that’s not built to be used on the type of gun you’re mounting them on.


I suggest that you consider visiting and searching through some AGN threads in the “Traditional Airguns” forum to see what other springer owners and competitors use for reliable springer rated optics.
Click to expand...
When I spoke to AOA, they indicated that the scope is rated for springers, but I will confirm this.
 
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bustachip said:
One thing I would eliminate is the barrel, give it a good cleaning then try again. I had a problem similar when I shot crosman pellets and my bore would get fouled. The groups would drop and or spread out. After a cleaning, my accuracy would come back. Also I would recommend not chasing it with adjusting your turrets. Just keep shooting and try other stuff, chasing the zero never works. Check for any loose screws, try a different scope.
Put it away and try again tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I actually just cleaned the barrel a day or two ago. It didn't change the performance of the gun. When the scope is stable, the gun shoots really well. Tiny groups and low 240s at 25 yards from the bench.
 
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bustachip said:
Also if you adjust the scope way off of optical center the spring is stretched, and it will be more prone to move with the springer recoil.
Click to expand...
This is a possibility. I recently centered the scope in the middle of its range of movement. I forget how much elevation change it required to zero, but I think it was a full turn (14 moa). There's more travel in the scope, but it is well off of center. I had once shimmed the scope to adjust for this, but took out the shim thinking it could be causing issues.
 
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Airgun-hobbyist said:
I had an Athlon Helos that had a POI shift after making a parallax adjustment and shooting it some. It was the parallax adjustment sticking and then randomly freeing up the tube inside. In the freezing cold weather it would audibly clunk when the stiction let go and then came to rest. It made two distinct groups before and after the move.
Click to expand...
I'm not generally touching the parallax when I'm shooting as I'm shooting at a fixed distance off the bench.
 
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