Do Regulators need constant adjustment or maintenance?

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Mr.Gadgets

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Sep 30, 2015
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Hillsborough, New Jersey, United States
Guys,
I'm having a hard time deciding which to buy, a regulated or unregulated gun. Do the regulators need much maintenance or constant adjustment? I've seen several YouTube videos on adjusting the power, and man, they had to take 90% of the gun apart to make an adjustment, then put it all back together to test it. If it wasn't right, do it all over again, then test again.
Maybe I'm missing something and they never have to be touched at all.

Thanks,
Bob
 
Well It depends on the gun and what you want to do with it. If its a factory regulated gun then shouldn't need adjusting. Regulators do need some service eventually. Usually just o-rings replaced. Many people like to tinker and adjust their guns however and then the reg will need to be adjusted to increase or decrease power. Maybe there is a certain pellet that you want at a certain speed. Some guns reg's are adjustable externally but many have to be removed. 90% disassembly is a bit much. Usually not that bad. Once you get used to taking it apart it usually not that hard. If you like to tinker especially.
ADDED: The Marauder for example only requires degassing, removing the fill cap on the end of the air tube then pulling the regulator out using a wire with a hook on the end. Adjust the screw on the regulator then reinstall. Just takes a few minutes.
 
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"30cal"Well It depends on the gun and what you want to do with it. If its a factory regulated gun then shouldn't need adjusting. Regulators do need some service eventually. Usually just o-rings replaced. Many people like to tinker and adjust their guns however and then the reg will need to be adjusted to increase or decrease power. Maybe there is a certain pellet that you want at a certain speed. Some guns reg's are adjustable externally but many have to be removed. 90% disassembly is a bit much. Usually not that bad. Once you get used to taking it apart it usually not that hard. If you like to tinker especially.
ADDED: The Marauder for example only requires degassing, removing the fill cap on the end of the air tube then pulling the regulator out using a wire with a hook on the end. Adjust the screw on the regulator then reinstall. Just takes a few minutes.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the gen2 marauders with the factory depingers are another story. I was unable to remove the depinger on mine so it had to come out the back end which meant everything came out. And constant ripped o-rings.
 
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Pulps do you mean that piece of rubber tube with the ribs? I got one of those to try in my gen 1. It didn't work worth a darn but I had no trouble pulling it out with a stiff wire with a hook bent on the end. Unless they have something different now? Besides with a reg you usually don't need a depinger any more. I have a Huma reg in mine and have no more ping.
 
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"When the regulator is out of the gun, and you turn the adjusting screw, there is no way to know what your setting it to. It’s just trial and error, correct?"
You need a Pressure Gauge to set it right to a determined pressure but this is something that shouldn't be necessary unless doing maintenance after 20-25,000 + shots or because the regulator failed for some reason...It is not necessary to touch them for tuning...

"Do the regulators need much maintenance or constant adjustment? I’ve seen several YouTube videos on adjusting the power"
Stay away from those videos!...The best thing to do is to buy the gun set at the desired power level...and if at all, make fine adjustments to the hammer spring assuming the gun allows hammer adjustments for velocity...
Remember: MINOR adjustments...Don't try to gain 150-200 fps by increasing the spring tension because the spring allows you to do that, the cost of doing so will be an Air Guzzling Gun...VERY INEFICIENT & INCONSISTENT

Most guns come with the regulators set at a determined BAR pressure intended to be efficient and BALANCED for the gun application...If you start messing around with what you received from the factory (regulator pressure), you are not gaining anything but problems...

Increase the power by increasing BAR pressure?...Well yes, it is possible up to a certain point, but then there are other variables that need to also be tweaked for balancing the equation...You are much better off buying the gun with the power you intend to use given the fact that besides regulator pressure, you have transfer ports and air chamber volumes designed to operate efficiently with certain BAR pressures (regulator)...In other words: These are variables dependent on regulator pressure that will need to be modified accordingly if regulator pressure is altered.

Opposite to the general belief that regulators work best at higher pressures, THEY SIMPLY DON'T...Regulators work best at around 80-85% of their working range and lower BAR regulators seem to last FOREVER and are MORE CONSISTENT with no issues.

Note: ALL World, Olympic and Benchrest records have been established with LOW pressure regulators (Under 100 BAR)

You can also add more power by increasing size of transfer ports without altering the regulator's BAR pressure, by increasing the air chamber volume or the timing (time the regulator stays open) but this is NOT RECOMMENDED as manufacturers already did the engineering for efficiency and power...There needs to be a right balance between REGULATOR-TRANSFER PORTS-AIR VOLUME CHAMBER and TIMING...

Renown tuners in the world (Germany, England and two I know in the US) don't mess around with regulators, some of these smiths used to replace them with custom built ones that were better made or with certain characteristics for consistency-efficiency-durability, but this is no longer necessary as regulators nowadays have taken a major leap in technology and materials and are as good as they can be...Very hard to improve what the factory offers. 

If you wanted to known the BAR pressures of regulators mostly used by manufacturers, roughly speaking:

65 BAR for ISSF Guns (570 fps in .177 with 8.9 gr. pellets)
75-85 BAR for 12 & 16 ft./lb. guns depending on manufacturer
120 BAR for most 16 -20 & 30 ft./lb. guns as sold in the USA
145 - 165 BAR for those high energy .25 and larger calibers
Above 170 for some of those 3-5 shots per fill Big Bores

Keep in mind that the higher the BAR Pressure, the more prone to failing...Regulators are designed to work within a pressure range and you can go up out of this range, but then you are shortening its life or making it inconsistent.
Have you ever heard or experienced REGULATOR CREEP of some kind?...
Did you know that ISSF top guns are immune to regulator creep and other high pressure derived issues?...Why?
Well...When competing at the Olympics or World Championships you don't have a chance to fire a few shots while the regulator sets in... 

Most regulators will last 5+ years with no issues (normal shooting or about 5-7,000 pellets/year), nevertheless I have seen regulators in both extremes: Failing after less than 500-1000 pellets and some others still going on strong that have been in use since the 90's...The ones that I have seen that last longer are LOW -MEDIUM BAR PRESSURE regulators ranging from 65 to about 100 BAR.

Regards,

AZ
 
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azuaro said:
"When the regulator is out of the gun, and you turn the adjusting screw, there is no way to know what your setting it to. It’s just trial and error, correct?"
You need a Pressure Gauge to set it right to a determined pressure but this is something that shouldn't be necessary unless doing maintenance after 20-25,000 + shots or because the regulator failed for some reason...It is not necessary to touch them for tuning...

"Do the regulators need much maintenance or constant adjustment? I’ve seen several YouTube videos on adjusting the power"
Stay away from those videos!...The best thing to do is to buy the gun set at the desired power level...and if at all, make fine adjustments to the hammer spring assuming the gun allows hammer adjustments for velocity...
Remember: MINOR adjustments...Don't try to gain 150-200 fps by increasing the spring tension because the spring allows you to do that, the cost of doing so will be an Air Guzzling Gun...VERY INEFICIENT & INCONSISTENT

Most guns come with the regulators set at a determined BAR pressure intended to be efficient and BALANCED for the gun application...If you start messing around with what you received from the factory (regulator pressure), you are not gaining anything but problems...

Increase the power by increasing BAR pressure?...Well yes, it is possible up to a certain point, but then there are other variables that need to also be tweaked for balancing the equation...You are much better off buying the gun with the power you intend to use given the fact that besides regulator pressure, you have transfer ports and air chamber volumes designed to operate efficiently with certain BAR pressures (regulator)...In other words: These are variables dependent on regulator pressure that will need to be modified accordingly if regulator pressure is altered.

Opposite to the general belief that regulators work best at higher pressures, THEY SIMPLY DON'T...Regulators work best at around 80-85% of their working range and lower BAR regulators seem to last FOREVER and are MORE CONSISTENT with no issues.

Note: ALL World, Olympic and Benchrest records have been established with LOW pressure regulators (Under 100 BAR)

You can also add more power by increasing size of transfer ports without altering the regulator's BAR pressure, by increasing the air chamber volume or the timing (time the regulator stays open) but this is NOT RECOMMENDED as manufacturers already did the engineering for efficiency and power...There needs to be a right balance between REGULATOR-TRANSFER PORTS-AIR VOLUME CHAMBER and TIMING...

Renown tuners in the world (Germany, England and two I know in the US) don't mess around with regulators, some of these smiths used to replace them with custom built ones that were better made or with certain characteristics for consistency-efficiency-durability, but this is no longer necessary as regulators nowadays have taken a major leap in technology and materials and are as good as they can be...Very hard to improve what the factory offers.

If you wanted to known the BAR pressures of regulators mostly used by manufacturers, roughly speaking:

65 BAR for ISSF Guns (570 fps in .177 with 8.9 gr. pellets)
75-85 BAR for 12 & 16 ft./lb. guns depending on manufacturer
120 BAR for most 16 -20 & 30 ft./lb. guns as sold in the USA
145 - 165 BAR for those high energy .25 and larger calibers
Above 170 for some of those 3-5 shots per fill Big Bores

Keep in mind that the higher the BAR Pressure, the more prone to failing...Regulators are designed to work within a pressure range and you can go up out of this range, but then you are shortening its life or making it inconsistent.
Have you ever heard or experienced REGULATOR CREEP of some kind?...
Did you know that ISSF top guns are immune to regulator creep and other high pressure derived issues?...Why?
Well...When competing at the Olympics or World Championships you don't have a chance to fire a few shots while the regulator sets in...

Most regulators will last 5+ years with no issues (normal shooting or about 5-7,000 pellets/year), nevertheless I have seen regulators in both extremes: Failing after less than 500-1000 pellets and some others still going on strong that have been in use since the 90's...The ones that I have seen that last longer are LOW -MEDIUM BAR PRESSURE regulators ranging from 65 to about 100 BAR.

Regards,

AZ
Click to expand...
Yes, I see this is an old thread but as I was looking for some info on why my regulator act abnormal I saw this discussion.

Much of this description seem to be in contradiction with what I read and see most people do today. Especially the idea of buying it and leave the settings as is and shoot it like that. Is the ease of external tuning not one of the main attractions of pcp rifles? How would the factory know what projectiles the owner will use, what his purpose of the rifle will be, like target shooting or hunting? And from what I gather is that the same make and model rifle will come out of the factory with different settings. Most factories will not spend the extra time and increase the cost to tune the rifle to perfection, but expect the owner to tune it himself according to his requirements.

Am I wrong in this assumption?
 
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Klaas said:
Yes, I see this is an old thread but as I was looking for dome info on why my regulator act abnormal I saw this discussion.

Much of this description seem to be in contradiction with what I read and see most people do today. Especially the idea of buying it and leave the settings as is and shoot it like that. Is the ease of external tuning not one of the main attractions of pcp rifles? How would the factory know what projectiles the owner will use, what his purpose of the rifle will be, like target shooting or hunting? And from what I gather is that the same make and model rifle will come out of the factory with different settings. Most factories will not spend the extra time and increase the cost to tune the rifle to perfection, but expect the owner to tune it himself according to his requirements.

Am I wrong in this assumption?
Click to expand...
Yes, I think you may be a little wrong in your assumption. Most rifles are delivered with a reasonably well-balanced tune. If the velocity you desire with a specific pellet is substantially different than what is produced as delivered, then additional tuning involving both the reg set point and hammer spring tension might be appropriate. Certain rifles are designed to offer easy external tuning, as a segment of the market seems to demand it. Again, unless your desired end product is substantially removed from the average, you are probably better off to buy either unregulated, or, a more traditionally regulated rifle that, although tunable, is not designed for on-the-fly fiddling. It reminds me of when I started doing road course driving, and it seemed that everyone wanted adjustable suspensions, and were always messing with them, only occasionally doing it correctly. An older instructor told me, "The first year that you do this, learn to drive, don't mess with the car, it's better than you".
 
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Let's start this properly with : "In My Humble Opinion" and let it be known that I like to tinker with technical stuff 😉

For the average person with limited knowledge and experience with how PCPs work, I strongly suggest that you figure out what power you (REALLY) need for your purposes, do your research, buy a PCP that meets those requirements, test to find the pellet/slug it likes and shoot it with the factory tune. Both you and the airgun will be happy 🙂

If you decide that the generic tune that the knowledgeable factory engineers have decided on needs to be improved then (after the pcp is well broken in) send it to a professional tuner with a clear description of what you want to do with your airgun and what your expectations are. Be realistic with your expectations... the family car will never be able to compete with a formula one racing car.

Tuning is fun and an excellent way to learn your airgun. Be aware that there is a fine balance to get the adjustable parts to work with the physical parts properly and efficiently. You might want to get an inexpensive or second hand airgun to learn on. That being said, you can always send it to a pro to be fixed.

Tuning for accuracy is well worth while. Tuning for maximum power (bragging rights?) is questionable... if you need more power then buy an airgun designed for that power level rather than modifying/re-engineering one that was factory built for a specific performance level.

Personally, I think that all PCPs should be tuner-friendly but I am (incorrectly) assuming that people will not mess with adjustments they don't understand. Strange the people who would never dream about twisting the screws on their cars' carburetor don't hesitate to do so to a PCP.

Anyway, done rambling.

Sorry to hear your regulator is behaving strangely. See if you can find a pattern in the problem (pressure? temperature?) note the symptoms and ask here. I'm sure people will help.

Cheers!
 
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Thanks for the replies. I am new to pcp's and bought a 5 year old used one about 6 months ago. I did read about pcp's for about 6 months before that, especially the technical side of it. And yes, I am a guy that will rebuild his car's (and bike) carburetor by himself and actually did it a few times. At first I tuned my pcp for slugs as I thought I was going to do more hunting with it. (Bragging rights as you say. :) ) But, since I mostly do target shooting at home I re-tuned it for 18 grain pellets, firstly for accuracy and also for efficiency. It is an older rifle and I must dismantle the rifle to get to the regulator inside the air tube.

Now that I read your comments and again that of the poster I referred to, I realise that he meant his post for the beginner, not the long time experienced guy who wants more out of his rifle. I am still not that experienced guy but it is in me to want to know how something work and do it myself. I will get to the point where I can help others. It is part of the hobby for me.

Regarding my pcp regulator behaving strangely, I did a post about it here: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/regulator-stopped-working.1304675/
 
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Achieving the maximum most consistent velocities and efficient use of air in a regulated PCP is to think of the regulator and adjustable hammer spring system essentially replicating the narrowest power curve of that in an unregulated PCP multifold. This is one great aspect of such a system in a PCP because it allows the shooter to decide at which point or velocity range his or her gun shoots a given pellet. If the gun has been properly tuned to shoot at lower power levels, like for example 12 FPE, the shot count can be increased significantly and be even far greater than an unregulated PCP can produce. That is exactly what I've done to my .22 BRK Ghost Carbine. At 11.5 FPE, my Ghost produces over 430 shots (220 - 45 BAR) with a spread of 44 FPS--using Crosman 14.3 hollow point pellets! (I just changed out the factory hammer spring to a shorter one.) Both extreme spread and standard deviation would be much smaller numbers with JSB pellets, of course, and smaller still if I sort/weigh them. With this setup, the pellets' point of impact is essentially a single hole at 35 yards and the pellets deliver more than enough power to humanely take down any small-size pests that invade my backyard. Oh, and my compressor is happier.😉😉

Here's a photo of my Ghost that I took on this beautiful Sunday morning in the valley of the sun:
IMG_2299.jpeg
 
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Vana2 said:
Let's start this properly with : "In My Humble Opinion" and let it be known that I like to tinker with technical stuff 😉

For the average person with limited knowledge and experience with how PCPs work, I strongly suggest that you figure out what power you (REALLY) need for your purposes, do your research, buy a PCP that meets those requirements, test to find the pellet/slug it likes and shoot it with the factory tune. Both you and the airgun will be happy 🙂

If you decide that the generic tune that the knowledgeable factory engineers have decided on needs to be improved then (after the pcp is well broken in) send it to a professional tuner with a clear description of what you want to do with your airgun and what your expectations are. Be realistic with your expectations... the family car will never be able to compete with a formula one racing car.

Tuning is fun and an excellent way to learn your airgun. Be aware that there is a fine balance to get the adjustable parts to work with the physical parts properly and efficiently. You might want to get an inexpensive or second hand airgun to learn on. That being said, you can always send it to a pro to be fixed.

Tuning for accuracy is well worth while. Tuning for maximum power (bragging rights?) is questionable... if you need more power then buy an airgun designed for that power level rather than modifying/re-engineering one that was factory built for a specific performance level.

Personally, I think that all PCPs should be tuner-friendly but I am (incorrectly) assuming that people will not mess with adjustments they don't understand. Strange the people who would never dream about twisting the screws on their cars' carburetor don't hesitate to do so to a PCP.

Anyway, done rambling.

Sorry to hear your regulator is behaving strangely. See if you can find a pattern in the problem (pressure? temperature?) note the symptoms and ask here. I'm sure people will help.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Cars have Carburetors? How quaint.
 
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