Do you expect your Pellet gun to shoot Slugs?

[Emu]

I know Centercut knows more than myself about PCP's.

I assume he must be right.

What would be interesting to know is if the accuracy at 220 yard may only be achieved with slugs or if it is also possible with pellets and a good rifle.

 

[harrymoreland]

 



Why are they called "slugs", surely they are pellets if they are being shot from a "pellet" gun.

 

[Guest]

Why are they called "slugs", surely they are pellets if they are being shot from a "pellet" gun.

Haha yeah pellets

 

[Jasonmc]

Do I expect my pellet guns to shoot slugs. No, I personally do not. I bought it advertised as a pellet rifle that shoots pellets. I personally love the slug development going on.. I haven't jumped on the slug band wagon yet... but I'm gonna! 

 

[DadsKrag]

Air Venturi Avenger

.22 Crosman Premier HP.14.3gr 1040fps .469" OA, .252" C-C



.22 FX Hybrid Slugs 22gr 800fps .240" C-C 

 

[JohnnyPDX]

I read a lot of posts about slugs and I see a potential future... me buying every size and shape of slug and MAYBE getting lucky with my TaipanVL.

EVERYTHING I've read from people I believe to be 'in the know' suggests success requires a full commitment that has to include buying a proper barrel.

Maybe later. I dropped a lot of starling yesterday and most under 50yards and they didn't care whether I was following the "popular" trend in projectiles.

 

[dizzums]

exactly, the beauty of a pellet gun is shooting cheap ammo and its quiet .. ive had firearms that shot obscure expensive ammo before to 'had' being the keyword .. so back to the question, no, i dont expect my pellet guns to shoot fancy expensive ammo ... show me your Cheif in 177 you put a lothar walthar barrel on and can print a whole 500 tin of 5$ premeirs on a dime at 50, that will impress me ...

 

[bandg]

Maybe the question should have been "Do you expect your air rifle to shoot slugs?" I think there is enough info out there if one follows close enough that they can predict whether or not their new air gun can shoot slugs. I think by now there are 3-4 brands and models that stand a good 80-100% chance that they will shoot a slug really well. From the Avenger to the Superior lined FX's to the Daystates just to name a few. Also now that the slugs are really getting popular they are being designed to be somewhat pellet gun friendly like the FX Hybrids and JSB Knockouts. Just my 2 cents. 

jking

Maybe the question should have been "Do you expect your air rifle to shoot slugs?" I think there is enough info out there if one follows close enough that they can predict whether or not their new air gun can shoot slugs. I think by now there are 3-4 brands and models that stand a good 80-100% chance that they will shoot a slug really well. From the Avenger to the Superior lined FX's to the Daystates just to name a few. Also now that the slugs are really getting popular they are being designed to be somewhat pellet gun friendly like the FX Hybrids and JSB Knockouts. Just my 2 cents. 

jking

That’s true Jimmy, I think that most have a pretty good idea of what will and will not work. When I started testing slugs seriously out of the FX liners and LW barrels in .25 caliber a couple of years ago, it was about the most frustrating experience ever. There was no information at all for .25 caliber, all the slug information seemed to be about the .22 cal. Some .25 slugs worked pretty well but the fliers were a constant nuisance. Since then though, barrels and liners have just gotten better and better at a super fast rate. And, other parts of the gun like larger plenums and slug kits have too. There are so many slug makers designing slugs with every imaginable meplat, base, bearing surface, diameter, lead composition and weight, making it much easier to find a slug that will work with your particular barrel and air gun. It’s really pretty crazy how this trend has taken off over the last two years and the improvements that have been made in a very short time. I remember Mike and I talking a while back about which is more accurate a pellet or a slug. I said inside 100yds, on a windless day, a pellet without a doubt. Then I started shooting the VK 32.8gr and 34gr and that question became a little harder to answer. Now, since I’ve been shooting the 34.9gr NSA slugs out of my Impact, I’d give the nod to slugs. These things are straight up accurate and so consistent at every range and the retained energy and BC makes it hard for me to want to shoot pellets out of my Impact. Now that there are so many slug manufacturers and it’s become so common for slug makers and air gun manufacturers to work together, improvements will be even faster and the innovation we’ll see in the next year or two are going to be amazing.

Hope all is well with you and your family.

Stoti

Agree, whether from that "insignificant minority" or not. 

I'm not a regular slug shooter. Coming from a firearms background, I understand the POTENTIAL (RELATIVE) advantages to slugs, as well as their potential and relative disadvantages. I don't believe that there is a yes or no answer to the question asked, and the original phrasing of the question doesn't help IMO. I have 3 rifles that shoot slugs just as well as pellets, no matter whether "inside 60 yards only" or not. Equally accurate is equally accurate. Relative benefit is a different topic (increased utility at longer ranges), and it seems an understanding of such should be common sense to experienced shooters.

The .177 Daystate Pulsar HP I have is one of the guns that shoots slugs as well as it does pellets (noted since the brand thing was mentioned above). Another for me has been my .177 Condor. It also shoots both slugs and pellets equally well. Yet another specific example is my .22 Hatsan Gladius which also shoots both projectiles very well. 

One separation amongst the 3-single shot Condor is no issue. Daystate mag cycles both pellets and slugs flawlessly. Gladius "mag" feeds pellets perfectly but slugs can shift front to rear in that design and jams can occur. Not a firing issue with the Gladius as that is fine, but a feeding issue. For that reason, I don't shoot slugs in the Gladius at all. I don't regularly shoot slugs in the others, either. BUT I COULD IF DESIRED.

"LUCK OF THE DRAW?" Could be phrased that way. Seems it could also be phrased as "all relative", as many things are.

 

[Fullmag]

All my guns do well with slugs and I gravitate to the ones that do well with them. I’m mainly a target shooter and my main reason for using slugs is I make my own so I’m not dependent on the the market if I need em I make em. My Red Wolf loves them as does my SK19 and I’ve had great results accuracy wise with slugs.

 

[steve123]

I remember when nearly 2 years ago slugs started becoming more popular and the frustration most folks were having. Also coming from a firearms background I was shaking my head thinking to myself of all the aspects on the subject that need to be correct - like slug fit to barrel, twist rate, and the CG of the slugs, all needing to be within the range of what works well vs what doesn't work for the precision minded.

I tried some 30 cal slugs in a two different pcp pellet rifles. Both were nearly the same, 3-4 in a decent cluster at 50Y and 1 or 2 out opening up the group to 1.5". Not bad for hunting rabbits but not great for smaller critters unless I didn't care about missing or wounding. They sucked at 75Y, 3 to 4 inch groups. It was a good try, lol. That's okay I expected worse at both distances.

Later this summer I'll be picking up a slug barrel for my HPX and I know that the testing of all parameters will have been done to a fine degree and that the barrel will be a high grade one made specifically for a certain weight and shape of swaged slug. Swage, load, and shoot, which suits my desire vs trying to tune everything myself which can lead to massive disappointment to me. 

 

[bltefft]

I've never shot a slug from any of my pellet guns, as far as I know, they all have pellet barrels. Nothing against slugs, I just shoot pellets. So, I don't know if a slug would have any better accuracy than a pellet from my air rifles.

 

[bandg]

Better accuracy? Probably not. Equal accuracy at shorter distances? Possibly. Better performance at longer ranges? Maybe. Seems the base question is can the slugs match pellets for accuracy in the "average" (unicorn?) gun at shorter ranges and still have enough power available to reach longer ranges and the possible slug benefits at those longer ranges. Assuming one has any interest in shooting slugs at all.

 

[Centercut]

Probably? Possibly? Maybe? Is that anything like ALL RELATIVE?

 

[bandg]

Just about almost exactly like that. Now you're catching on.

 

[Jasonmc]

I read a lot of posts about slugs and I see a potential future... me buying every size and shape of slug and MAYBE getting lucky with my TaipanVL.

EVERYTHING I've read from people I believe to be 'in the know' suggests success requires a full commitment that has to include buying a proper barrel.

Maybe later. I dropped a lot of starling yesterday and most under 50yards and they didn't care whether I was following the "popular" trend in projectiles.

I agree .. slugs are the future.. definitely for a hunter (such as I) I just will not attempt to buy every slug on the market to see which works for me and end up with a bunch of fishing sinkers in the end. Just like you... I was popping starlings today without any problems with pellets.. it seems to me over the years everything from air rifle development to pellets were always based on the 22cal... the 22 always got perfected first than the rest of the calibers followed... such as now with slugs... seems like matt dubber is paving the way for the 22 slug shooter.. when the barrels are "there" and when a certain slug is matched to a such n such barrel... like we're seeing with pellets...my hunting rigs start slinging slugs.. until then... pellets it is

 

[Glem.Chally]

I expect my air rifles to shoot both.

 

[bandg]

I expect my air rifles to shoot both.

Dontcha know that can't happen.

Had a bit of time just before sunset when the gusty wind had settled to maybe 8-10 mph. Not a particularly good day for shooting but I decided to waste a bit of time and shoot a few anyway, just for that "insignificant minority". Took my (.........) out, which is zeroed for 7.9 CPHP's at 35 yards. Set a target out at 90 yards (yes, some of us can shoot that far if we WANT TO). The pellets produced a vertically strung 5 shot group, probably 2.5" wide by 4" high (running out of light so I can actually measure and post a picture later). That gusty wind moving up and down the right of way along my axis of shooting wasn't helping things. Rezeroed for the 12.5 NSA slugs at the same 35 yard distance as the pellets were zeroed for (they shot similar roughly half inch groups as the pellets at that range). Then shot the 90 yard target with a few groups using those slugs. WOW. The slugs didn't fly off into orbit, and they didn't knock the neighbor off his porch across the pasture. They shot what appears to me (note again, light was beginning to fade, and I'll post a picture of the common target later) to be a bit tighter groups than the pellets on that 90 yard target. Certainly, the slug groups weren't noticeably any LARGER than the pellet group. So, a really high tech air rifle shot slugs about as well as pellets at 90 yards. MIght be expected, right? Nothing rigorous or highly controlled here, and conditions were less than ideal to say the least, but just some casual shooting to roughly compare some pellet results to slug results. But it does seem to indicate that there is at least ONE MORE AIR RIFLE out there (amongst the others that people have mentioned) that can shoot slugs reasonably well. At least out to 90 yards in this specific case. 

Would a dedicated slug gun, built for the purpose of shooting slugs with a really good slug barrel, having enough power to push the slugs to a relatively high velocity for better spin rate/stability, improve or maximize the accuracy possible from slugs in relation to the best possible from pellets at longer ranges. I'd certainly hope so. But CAN "pellet guns" shoot slugs pretty well, at least out to moderately long distances for "air rifles" (JMO but I bet many consider 90 yards a pretty good distance for an air gun). Sure seems so.

Oh, I forgot to mention what that high tech high powered rifle shooting those pellets and slugs today was. It was a Diana Stormrider. 

Not really enough power to propel the slugs to a velocity that would seem to be fast enough for really good stability. And it was the FIRST TIME I had shot any slugs through that gun. But it shot them relatively well, at least out to 90 yards. Will I shoot slugs out of that gun in the future? No. There is no advantage to them FOR ME and the way I USE THE GUN. Would the slugs perform at least as well as the pellets IN THAT GUN and OUT TO THAT DISTANCE. Seems so. But I use that gun almost entirely inside around 50 yards so there is no advantage to the slug for me in this case. 

Interesting? Relevant? Useless? Opinions may vary.

 

[davidsng]

I've shoot a lot of slugs. I've bough so many slugs that I could have bought a new high end gun instead of trying to find slugs that work in a pellet gun. 

My conclusion to save a person a lot of time and $, (1) .22 Lothar Walther barrels (long ones especially), and any 257, 308, shoot them effortlessly. (2) CZ barrels in all calibers I could not find any slug to work with them, so just stick to pellets. (2) Often times it is the twist rate that is the determining factor. (3) The standard 17.7 is not great for slugs. I feel if you can find a barrel with 16 or better of a twist rate, it would be worth a try to test. (4) If you do not have a gun to with those twist rates. but must use slugs, use hybrids slugs.

 

[Guest]

Lothar walther

22cal up to 40gr 1:16twist 

224cal 1:12 up to 50gr spitzers or 60+grain FN FB and 3000psi max fill gun 1:7 if you can use heavier and have 4500psi gun

25cal up to 55gr 1:18 do not try BT bullets if more than 50gr

257cal 1:14 up to 90+gr and about 90gr bt max and can get away with 100grainers without BT. Do not bother with 1:10 I dont know any or heard any who have gotten it to work as well as 1:14 but know many who have tried. 

Generally all ppl in here who have shot cast bullets for 10+ years agree that you cant over stabilize bullets out from airgun but you can understabilize it so when choosing barrel rather pick faster twist than too slow. Best example is this one 224cal with 1:7 twist that shoots at 170fpe and is able to shoot everything from 37grainer to 70++ grainers. Alltho if your gun aint capable of shooting that heavy you should rather choose optimal twist for better performance and marginally lower barrel dragg. 

 

[bandg]

Some interesting (and probably useful) opinions in the above posts. Also some pretty off base points of view, IMO. Consider the mention of "overstabilization". Certainly doesn't seem possible for a pellet at air gun energy levels, but more importantly probably not something that can "actually happen" at all, so a straw man for discussion IMO and thus doubt can be cast on the overall view of understabilization and it's THEORETICAL likelyhood as well.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/07/over-stabilization-of-bullets-why-is-too-much-spin-a-problem/

An article on the topic of "stabilization". READ the responses below the article, and specifically note one from Brian Litz near the bottom. Pretty knowledgeable guy (reading his bio might be helpful) who basically states that "overstabilization" is a theoretical issue that would produce little (IF ANY) observable real world effect.

I've observed the only real world effect of "overstabilization" that LITZ mentions as possible in his view in action. Early in the years of .204 Ruger shooting (32 gr. bullets at 4200 fps), the guns would be shooting perfectly accurate groups at extreme range then a shot wouldn't impact the target. It wasn't "overstabilization" effecting ACCURACY in any way (because accuracy was phenomenal), it was ultra high rotational speeds (produced by TWIST RATE IN COMBINATION WITH VELOCITY) causing the bullets to disintegrate in flight. "Accuracy" wasn't the issue, bullet failure was.

As to a a slug being "understabilized" from an air gun, THAT certainly seems to be possible, even likely. But it seems that such MIGHT be clearly obvious to an observant shooter because the hole in a target SHOULD show "keyholing" if that were happening.