Does anybody make an air drier good for 5000+ psi?

Has anyone made or even experimented with using the chips that are used in electronic "coolers", etc. to condense moisture before or after the HPA pump?

Seems to me like a very viable thing to do which might be much better than simple coalescing filters, etc.

Then again, what the hell do I know.

Just thought I would ask... (smile)

All my best!

Kerry
 
Has anyone made or even experimented with using the chips that are used in electronic "coolers", etc. to condense moisture before or after the HPA pump?

Seems to me like a very viable thing to do which might be much better than simple coalescing filters, etc.

Then again, what the hell do I know.

Just thought I would ask... (smile)

All my best!

Kerry

p.s.

Damn I get tired of how badly AGN behaves when I am logged in and try to post. Yep, tired of it taking up to 20 minutes to reply or make a new post. (heavy sigh)

Yes, two 600 second waiting periods before the post would be allowed? Alphabet org? Not to mention all the other:

"Oops! We ran into some problems.
Oops! We ran into some problems. Please try again later. More error details may be in the browser console."

AGN simply doesn't seem to give damn.
 
I think you mean Peltier coolers. I thought about that a few days ago but to do it right would cost a lot more money than alternatives. Also Burns a lot of power very inefficient compared to even normal Refrigeration units.
Yes, Peltier chips. What I don't understand is that these chips are already being used in 12vdc systems, so how are they less efficient than a compressor and refrigerant that requires much more energy?

Just asking because I have a couple of these devices and they draw MUCH less electrical power than a compressor for the same cooling for a given small area.

All my best!

Kerry
 
Read up on them as I have a few days ago. They are used for low cost small systemf where the heat transfer need a minimal and power use isn't thought about. They get less and less efficient has the temp. differential increases. You would need a to stack 3+ chips and have a large heat sink. Using a similar sized or even smaller device stuck into a tank of cold water would work better and would need a lot of electrical power while under use.
 
Read up on them as I have a few days ago. They are used for low cost small system(s) where the heat transfer need a minimal and power use isn't thought about. They get less and less efficient has the temp. differential increases. You would need a to stack 3+ chips and have a large heat sink. Using a similar sized or even smaller device stuck into a tank of cold water would work better and would need a lot of electrical power while under use.
Exactly my point. I think the temperature differential to precipitate water in a small vessel, such as a coalescing filter is a good use for one or more chips to draw more moisture out of the air, either from the entering air or exiting air or both when it comes to HPA compression.

One chip on the input and one chip on the output would make a significant difference in moisture with a very small power footprint. IMHO.

Even if I am wrong about the Peltier chips, cooling the input and output air through a condenser makes a lot of sense to me and the Peltier chip is the most efficient way I know of to do it in a small space, like an HPA water filter.

Oh well...

All my best!

Kerry
 
@BlackICE nailed it - they simply are not good in an application where a large total amount of heat energy needs to be moved. While they can generate a large differential in temperature, this only happens if the heat flow per unit area is low - and the greater the desired differential the lower the heat load can be. Add in that they typically generate up to 3 times the amount of heat energy than they transfer and things get tough - they end up needing to reject through cooling ~4x the desired amount of cooling needed.

This can work great for cooling things like computer chips, where the goal is to get the CPU temp down to boost reliability, but do be aware that Peltier chips are typically 4 or more times the size of chips they are cooling - and for serious cooling (like for overclocking) manufactures typically opt for active liquid cooling as it can move far more heat.

Improved cooling can be a great thing for compressors, especially between stages of compression. But Peltier coolers are not really a good way to do it.
 
@BlackICE nailed it - they simply are not good in an application where a large total amount of heat energy needs to be moved. While they can generate a large differential in temperature, this only happens if the heat flow per unit area is low - and the greater the desired differential the lower the heat load can be. Add in that they typically generate up to 3 times the amount of heat energy than they transfer and things get tough - they end up needing to reject through cooling ~4x the desired amount of cooling needed.

This can work great for cooling things like computer chips, where the goal is to get the CPU temp down to boost reliability, but do be aware that Peltier chips are typically 4 or more times the size of chips they are cooling - and for serious cooling (like for overclocking) manufactures typically opt for active liquid cooling as it can move far more heat.

Improved cooling can be a great thing for compressors, especially between stages of compression. But Peltier coolers are not really a good way to do it.
Just to clarify what I was attempting to suggest.

I am not talking about trying to cool down the compressor. I am talking about using the temperature differential (just like with a/c) to cause condensation of moisture. Plain and simple.

The Peltier chips are the most economical/efficient means to do that in a relatively small area that I know of to date.

AGAIN, I am NOT talking about trying to cool the compressor, but ONLY to improve moisture reduction by temperature differential.

All my best!

Kerry
 
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Theories are only theories empirical evidence is always best. So I welcome you to try and report back your findings thank you.
I don't have the means to do the testing, but the "theory" of moisture reduction via temperature differential has been working for many years... as in your a/c unit which "conditions" the air (dehumidifies the air) as much, if not more, than cooling the air.

Look it up. (chuckle)

I simply don't understand your animosity.

All my best!

Kerry
 
Just to clarify what I was attempting to suggest.

I am not talking about trying to cool down the compressor. I am talking about using the temperature differential (just like with a/c) to cause condensation of moisture. Plain and simple.

The Peltier chips are the most economical/efficient means to do that in a relatively small area that I know of to date.

AGAIN, I am NOT talking about trying to cool the compressor, but ONLY to improve moisture reduction by temperature differential.

All my best!

Kerry
I understood what you were suggesting and my response was based on that - trying to simply cool down the air charge once it leaves the compressor, not the whole compressor. Of course we have to remember that the hot air charge is the source of the heat in the compressor in the first place (setting aside the power that compresses the air for a moment - considering just that the "heat" in the compressor is transferred there from the heat of compression, with very little coming from friction and the like). There is a lot of thermal energy in "hot" 300 bar air (given that there is ~300 times as much air per unit volume involved).

You are correct that reducing the temperature of the air charge will help drive condensation out of it, or in that if we can chill the air charge enough (below final usage temperature) that there will be no further condensation to manage (and if not, we should pass it through a desiccant drier). Worst case, a "chiller" reduces the load on a good desiccant drier letting it last much longer between either recharge or replacement, which is a good thing.

You are incorrect in your belief that Peltier chips are the most economical/efficient means to do that. That is what @BlackICE and I have been writing about.
I simply don't understand your animosity.

I do not pick up any animosity, but I do sense frustration, which I share. You repeatedly post ideas (which is fine), but you seem to insist that if you think it is correct or will work as stated, that it will do so. When others point out issues, or even worse dare to explain why the idea might be completely wrong, then you are the one that shows animosity (as well as demonstrates your lack of desire to learn). Your "I can't test it but I know I'm right" attitude is the issue.

Bottom line - could it be done? Yes. Would it be the best way (or even a good way) to go about doing it? Not even close. The most effective way to do it (and cheapest) would be to run the charge air through a coalescing filter that would be placed in a bucket of ice water - maximum heat transfer rate (FAR higher than with Peltier coolers), highest resulting temperature differential, and lowest cost of both purchase and operation (freezing the ice cubes/ water bottles with a conventional compressor in a freezer would be more energy efficient than chilling the water with Peltier coolers). Just because that might not "sound right" to you does not mean that we are the ones that have wrong information for you. Math is math . . .

If you want to get real fancy you could fabricate a system which has the high pressure line that leaves each stage of compression run through a water cooler too, but it probably would not end up working any better than just dunking a metal coalescing filter in the bucket of ice water . . . the temperature of the final air charge before going in the air reservoir is what matters, not "where" it gets chilled.
 
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