Does Ernest Rowe’s STX liner carbon sleeve work?

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Hey Guys, 

Thanks for all the feedback and support, Ernest and I truly appreciate it! We should be restocked within 4-6 weeks, if not faster. There will be plenty to go around when the sleeves arrive. 😁 This new batch will have the 700mm as one solid piece as well 👍

Please shoot me a DM or an email to [email protected] if there are any questions, more than happy to help! 



Newman
 
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My tubes came in, they were dead on size at 11 mm x 9 mm. Issue was I measured incorrectly and needed 12 mm. So got another order placed for some 12 mm x 11 mm tubes to slip over the ones I got. Not the best solution so we’ll see how it turns out. I got the one tube sanded and fit onto my liner. It wasn’t too bad of a job and 320 grit sand paper made for semi-quick work of opening up the id of the tube. Made some measurements and trimmed my 1000 mm tubes to 23.25” long. For now I slipped a factory oring over each end to help guide it into place. Gonna test it out tomorrow and see how it does. 
 
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My tubes came in, they were dead on size at 11 mm x 9 mm. Issue was I measured incorrectly and needed 12 mm. So got another order placed for some 12 mm x 11 mm tubes to slip over the ones I got. Not the best solution so we’ll see how it turns out. I got the one tube sanded and fit onto my liner. It wasn’t too bad of a job and 320 grit sand paper made for semi-quick work of opening up the id of the tube. Made some measurements and trimmed my 1000 mm tubes to 23.25” long. For now I slipped a factory oring over each end to help guide it into place. Gonna test it out tomorrow and see how it does.
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sweet! What glue did you use? Epoxy? 


let us know how it worked out for you and post some groups. 
 
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I posted my results on this not too long ago, QBall. If you do a search on my posts you’ll see my results. I used JB weld slo set, not the 5 minute set, and let it cure for 24 hours. My groups on my wildcat mk2 600 superior barrel tightened up. If you see my targets they are not of benchrest quality, but I’m ok with that. I explain that I’m in it for the speed, the power, at my 25 cal Barracuda Hunter extremes(28.4 grain) moving at 1001 FPS. So, yeah they aren’t going to be hole in hole, but 1/4” to 1/2” groups, yes. Anyway, the carbon fiber liner from Ernest tightened those up, and I no longer have to worry about the o rings on the outside of the liner anymore. 

Im awaiting for stock to replenish, as I am going to do the same on 4 other barrel liners.
 
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If you watch Ernest’s video on the application of the adhesive, he did mention to NOT USE any type of RTV silicone as the ends that are open to air will seal up first, leaving the insides moist for a while. So, adhesives that are relying on air to cure, not so good when compared to adhesives that cure and bond by chemical reaction, like a JB Weld. 

Im a big fan of epoxy’s. They definitely have their place in this hobby. One of my other favourites that’s so very strong when cured is this product right here-

C2B76F65-DD3C-4A35-A81E-1BEC016E9FE6.1607933400.jpeg


Mr Sticky. Works to bond PVC high pressure water, remains flexible, won’t crack.

The front grille on my 1993 dodge diesel has a flange at the top that attaches to a metal plate above the radiator with self tapping sheet metal screws.The grille itself is plastic with a chrome plating on it. That plastic flange has cracked over the years at the screw attachment points due not only they Diesel engine and road vibrations, but also with age. This product is the only two part epoxy that I’ve used that hasn’t cracked from Road and engine vibrations.

Another example- This past spring I used it on my 1 1/4” pvc line coming from my pressure vessel on my irrigation pump system. When I glued the fittings it was a tight corner and I wasn’t able to slip the pvc pipe deep enough into the socket of a 90 degree elbow fast enough. With the warm ambient temps and the fast dry of that Christy’s red hot pvc glue, I knew if I tried turning the 2hp irrigation pump on water would either leak out or blow the connection apart. So, lathered this up on the connection and it’s gone thru a summer of irrigating 5 acres and not a leak. Tough stuff. I buy it in three packs thru Amazon.
 
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Big, here are my results using the cf tubing I got from Japan. Highly precise tubes. I put them on a Brownell's liner first, and later an Fx. superior Heavy. these in .218 FX and .223 Brownell's. 

None are tensioned sadly. 



Group is at 80 yards. One shot for reg settling and 10 on target. My own hand cast from the NOE CC1 mold which I customized to be a hp mold. 

The Brownell's barrel shot this group. It does like to throw a flier every once in a while. well, too often. 
The FX barrel is just as accurate if not more so, but very few fliers. I did have to remove the choke for this type of results. 

The Group is marked "Cherry Picked" which it is, simply because in a 10 shot group, it likes to throw a flier. The FX on the other hand does not have to be Cherry Picked. It doesn't like to throw fliers at all. 

This was shot from the Raptor, 22" bbl, 930's with slug weight @ 34.7 average. The CF tubing really does make a huge improvement. Not only in groups, but day to day poi stability as well. ;<)

Mike/Knife

DSC02655.1607956773.JPG
DSC02656.1607956785.JPG


Bottom hole in one target was from another gun and target. 

I did cull slugs which were much nicer than the ones shown. They are culls. 

Knife
 
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No glues or adhesives were used in my attempt as of yet. I may need to when i slip the other tubes over the one now in place. but time will tell on if it will be needed. I have them pretty snug, I should be able to remove if need be.
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When you do decide to glue it. Make sure you open up the ID a bit more so you can get total coverage with your adhesive. It doesn't hurt to rough up the OD of the liner also.
 
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That NDA group looks really good! I know the superior liners like NSA slugs and that group might not open up much at 100! 


try to do a 3-5 shot group per power dial setting, my experience is the group for the entire range tightened up considerably after the carbon sleeve for the liner. Before the sleeve some of my groups can’t really be called groups they were so bad. 
 
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That NDA group looks really good! I know the superior liners like NSA slugs and that group might not open up much at 100! 


try to do a 3-5 shot group per power dial setting, my experience is the group for the entire range tightened up considerably after the carbon sleeve for the liner. Before the sleeve some of my groups can’t really be called groups they were so bad.
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I dont think he's got the carbon fiber glued to the liner. I don't see it doing much good if it isn't..


 
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I’m pretty confident it is doing what it needs to without being glued. My tubes were too small to even fit over the liner to begin with and I had to hand sand the id open to get them over my liner. It is snug enough that I did have to put some body weight pressure behind the tube as I slid it over the liner. Tomorrow I will remove the liner, take measurements of the gaps at the ends and fire off a few dozen clips and recheck the gaps again to make sure there is no movement of the carbon sleeve shifting on the liner.

once the new set of tubes get here they will take care of the air gap between the liner currently and the steel sleeve. There is a 1mm difference as it sits now. I do have pics of targets from when I was doing prior testing when the carbon liner was not installed, that will assure you that it is helping to reduce liner flex and calm the harmonics to get better groups.
 
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So after several clips, liner has still not moved from where I positioned it. Got the new carbon liner to take up the rest of the space and got it all put together. didn't glue the two liner sleeves together as I had to use some serious dead blow hammer work to get them to go fully over/inside each other. so the new carbon liner fit nicely into the barrel sleeve of my impact. very minimal movement. I did have to re-sight in again. but this thing is silly accurate.

Just figured I'd update my findings by trying to do this. it seems to do just as Ernest's carbon liner's do. I now have to sand open the id on one more to fit it to my heavy liner and see what the improvement is on that liner.
 
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So after several clips, liner has still not moved from where I positioned it. Got the new carbon liner to take up the rest of the space and got it all put together. didn't glue the two liner sleeves together as I had to use some serious dead blow hammer work to get them to go fully over/inside each other. so the new carbon liner fit nicely into the barrel sleeve of my impact. very minimal movement. I did have to re-sight in again. but this thing is silly accurate.

Just figured I'd update my findings by trying to do this. it seems to do just as Ernest's carbon liner's do. I now have to sand open the id on one more to fit it to my heavy liner and see what the improvement is on that liner.
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IMOH if you can get it tight enough to need "press fit" then it's most likely even better than gluing! Direct carbon contact is better than having filler in the middle! Thanks for the sharing your experience. Given Ernest won't have stock for a while I might just give that a try myself. hardest part is to get the ID to be uniform throughout the tube. 



EDIT: on second thought i'm too lazy and too clumsy to make anything with descent tolerance, I'm pretty good with a hammer though. LOL 
 
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I would like to try the Ernest Rowe CF sleeves, but in the meantime, I have come up with a jury-rigged approach that seems like a decent temporary (maybe) approach to stiffening the barrel.

First, I wrapped the OD of the liner with wide painter's tape in four locations along the liner. I made the tape to fit tight to the shroud, but the liner can still be removed from the shroud with minor difficulty.

Second, I placed a plastic coupling shim between the cocking block stop block and the end of the shroud when tightening the shroud down against the block and barrel screw. Much stiffer with that alone.

Third, I placed two spaced O-rings on the shroud OD under the scope rail.

Fourth, I modified/trimmed this harmonic tuner piece pictured I got off eBay a little and pushed it up on the bottle for some resistance against the added shroud O-rings pressing against the underside of the scope rail.

The results of all of this is a much tighter liner within the shroud and the shroud is much stiffer with much resistance against up/down or side movements. There is still some room for micro movements if pressed hard enough against, but overall, very stiff indeed. Not tested yet, but am looking forward to seeing if better. It should be. Everything is stiff, but also riding on O-rings or cushioning to dampen the harmonics. The shroud is still evenly spaced when looking at the space between the bottle. Anyways, something to try with parts on hand for more stiffness before doing the CF expense.

FX Harmonic Tuner.1608567842.JPG

 
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