Dual Regulators a fad or here to stay?

[bunkeru2k]

I cannot see dual regs going away. As has been said, we have been using dual regs in the paintball world since the early 90s. Our setups there were mainly to regulate it down to a steady pressure while maintaining the fastest flow rate possible. With paintball guns, it is rare for that 2nd reg to creep. This is the main difference that I have seen in the 2 branches of airguns. With the design of the secondary regs, you had much larger regs with lower pressures....which meant the materials used were not stressed as much. That really should give an indication of the next evolution in PCP really....finding materials that work better to seal the smaller regs with much higher pressures. The smaller sizes obviously to keep from taking more plenum space.

The biggest reason for these dual regs in PCP is really to give more flexibility. They allow you to get better results and consistency with dual purpose guns. Taking them from low power pellet shooters all the way up to limit pushing slug guns. They can also be removed easier than most can be added, so what is the true downside? Adding maybe $100 to take a gun from 1900 to 2000?

 

[Centercut]

Is the new FX Wondergun (Panthera) and its design probably to be used for further models dual reg? There you have it.
J/K. The Delta/Alpha Wolf is technically dual reg with one mechanical Huma and one electronic GCU. For high shooting pressure slug guns it’s not necessary. For lower power pellet guns it could benefit some guns. But certainly not “necessary”.

 

[jmohme]

When I was researching regulated airguns I noticed many of them had reg creep. Even more with higher fill pressures. Taking 4500 psi to 1000 psi seemed like a big task for 1 reg.

I am not seeing that on my Prophet 1 with only one regulator, filled to 300 bar. Regulated to 125, shooting JSB 18.1 pellets.
This is page 1 of a 100 shot string.


First shot was a little high but after that I had 100 shots that all looked like the rest on this page.
Maybe I just got lucky with mine, but I rather doubt it.

 

[nervoustrig]

That is a textbook example of regulator creep.

And evidence of too much hammer spring tension, by the way.

 

[Centercut]

I am not seeing that on my Prophet 1 with only one regulator, filled to 300 bar. Regulated to 125, shooting JSB 18.1 pellets.
This is page 1 of a 100 shot string.

View attachment 316540
First shot was a little high but after that I had 100 shots that all looked like the rest on this page.
Maybe I just got lucky with mine, but I rather doubt it.

Great shot string. Nothing wrong with that. First shot higher indicated MINOR reg creep like 5 bar overnight. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Motorhead]

Somethings many just never think about or realize ...
Pressure at and above 250bar is not that much more air ( Boyles law )
Pressures as we go higher & higher extrude 0-rings and reduce there service life exponentially
Friction of an o-ring Increases with pressure due to extrusion which is detrimental by virtue of drag in ANY Dynamic application ( Regs have dynamic motion internally )

So my view is that while a TWIN regulated set up can have the Lower pressure reg running with less strain on its o-rings, the High pressure reg is getting beat to death !!!
Which is going to fail first ? .. High pressure !!
Whats going to happen to low pressure reg when this happens ? It will be overwhelmed and be forced to process pressures it is designed or set up to handle and while it may regulate, it won't be anywhere near on set point or likely able to work correctly.

Moral .... Regs fail & 1 that needs service you know when it is required ... IMO Beats the snot out of two because your issue is still service but will get drug out in diagnosing & fiddle time because the 2 reg system balance goes wonky.

 

[Headshots]

I am not seeing that on my Prophet 1 with only one regulator, filled to 300 bar. Regulated to 125, shooting JSB 18.1 pellets.
This is page 1 of a 100 shot string.

View attachment 316540
First shot was a little high but after that I had 100 shots that all looked like the rest on this page.
Maybe I just got lucky with mine, but I rather doubt it.

That's why I said many and not all. I've seen some great shot strings from daystate and others as well. And I don't think double regs are necessary on every airgun, but I don't think its a gimmick or fad . I like the idea of two regs splitting the load. I also like airguns that run at a lower pressure so my compressor doesn't have to work as hard and still having a high shot count and could be hand pumped if needed .

At 80 bar on the on the second reg I was up to around 920 fps w 18g and 37 fpe with 25.4g at 805. Trying to get back to that tune. But that's part of the fun for me.

Your shot string looks good to me after that first shot . But I wouldn't know crap without some better tuners posting directions.

 

[nervoustrig]

Scott, those are some good points about the stresses associated with higher fill pressures.

I just wanted to add one thing. Whether it's one reg or two regs, if the gun is being filled to 300 bar, there is always 1 regulator whose high side of the piston is seeing the punishingly high pressure. Avoiding it is possible only by limiting the fill pressure.

 

[cosmic]

What gun fills to 300 bar ?

 

[jmohme]

What gun fills to 300 bar ?

RTI Prophet Performance.

 

[tor47]

Regarding the panthera. It has the option to mount the bottle both in the rear, or in the front. Or maybe two bottles for thouse who want it? It also has two options to choose where one likes to have the fill port. Having two regs in that gun probably would mean the first reg has to be moved around all depending on where the user would like to have the bottle, which make it complicated. The fill port in the front is in the block, or plugged off when not in use. So even it doeas not have two regs, it has other features.

 

[jmohme]

Scott, those are some good points about the stresses associated with higher fill pressures.

I just wanted to add one thing. Whether it's one reg or two regs, if the gun is being filled to 300 bar, there is always 1 regulator whose high side of the piston is seeing the punishingly high pressure. Avoiding it is possible only by limiting the fill pressure.

I have worked with high pressure gases and hydraulics for much of my professional life. If a regulator can not withstand the high side pressures of the application, it is a poorly designed regulator and should be replaced with a reg of proper specs. It's just that simple.

 

[tor47]

Interesting enough some walther olympic airguns, does have the ability to fill the bottles to 300 bar for many years. The reg pressure is maybe 60-70 bar in thouse guns?

 

[tor47]

Regarding regs, it is probably not uncommon to have a 2-4 bar drop from a full bottle fill, down to reg pressure. That is not much, and for a pellet gun tuned at the "knee", probably has no impact on accuracy. But if a gun is tuned with high regpressure, and low hammer force, that might lead to some velocity change.

 

[Headshots]

What gun fills to 300 bar ?

Air Venturi Avenger is 300 bar.

 

[cosmic]

I forgot my old .457 AEA Challenger bullpup did also.. Golden years my ass !!