HW/Weihrauch Early 80's HW35E .22 cal

[MDriskill]

It looks like an East German knockoff.
Mellrichstadt was a town in what was East Germany from 1944-1989.
Probably why the place of manufacture on the rifle was scratched away.
I was stationed in West Berlin from 1974-1979.
Berlin for the un-informed was not on the border between East and West Germany.
Berlin was located 125 miles inside of East Germany.
West Berlin was occupied by the USA, France and Great Britain.
The Soviets had the east but they enjyed shopping in our BX.
The American embassy was located in East Berlin.

This cartouche (from one of the OP's pics) is on most all Weihrauch airguns. Mellrichstadt is the town where the factory is, and "Bay" stands for "Bayern," the German word for the state of Bavaria (similar to the US, Germany is divided into states).

Before the war, Weihrauch was in Zella-Mehlis, Thuringia - which ended up in EAST Germany. After the war they moved to Mellrichstadt, Bavaria - in WEST Germany - re-opening there in 1948. Although the two towns are quite close together, they on opposite sides of the state/iron curtain border.

East Germany's biggest airgun maker was Haenel, located in the traditional gun-making city of Suhl, Thuringia. They manufactured many interesting airguns both before and after the war, but none of them were direct copies of contemporary Weihrauch products. The pre-war Haenel models 1 and 3, and post-war model 303, are barrel-cockers with a manual breech lock, but it works differently from the HW 35's.

 

[Toxylon]

Today's job was to clean the HW35 barrel and push pellets through it. The results were staggering.

FTT 5.55's, the biggest-head quality pellets available:

-push through the breech block with moderate-high resistance

-exiting the breech block the resistance drops to a minimum

-at app. 6 - 8 inches from the breech (depending on individual pellet) the pellets start a freefall, and never stop until the pellet is out of the muzzle

-there is basically no choke on this Weihrauch barrel, as incredible as that is

I have always heard about loose Weihrauch .22 cal barrels but this is just ridiculous, or would be, if I weren't hundreds of bucks out of pocket with a piece of worthless scrap metal and nice walnut.

 

[bustachip]

Today's job was to clean the HW35 barrel and push pellets through it. The results were staggering.

FTT 5.55's, the biggest-head quality pellets available:

-push through the breech block with moderate-high resistance

-exiting the breech block the resistance drops to a minimum

-at app. 6 - 8 inches from the breech (depending on individual pellet) the pellets start a freefall, and never stop until the pellet is out of the muzzle

-there is basically no choke on this Weihrauch barrel, as incredible as that is

I have always heard about loose Weihrauch .22 cal barrels but this is just ridiculous, or would be, if I weren't hundreds of bucks out of pocket with a piece of worthless scrap metal and nice walnut.

You could try and choke it yourself.

 

[Mycapt65]

Sorry to hear that. That sucks. I just did a 1985 177 R7 for someone that had the exact same problem. The accuracy was terrible. Different pellets would print 6" from each other at 25 yards. I found a NOS replacement barrel for it. At least you didn't chase your tail around trying to get to shoot straight like I did.

Best of luck with it.

 

[patrikky]

I have, a fake HW35 made in the GDR, I'll post a picture later.This rifle is called the Haenel 303 Super and it is much rarer than the HW35 and costs just as much.

The Haenel 303 super is not a fake hw35. It is not even a copy of the Hw35. I have one and it shoots well but definitely different IMO

 

[Ievgen721]

The Haenel 303 super is not a fake hw35. It is not even a copy of the Hw35. I have one and it shoots well but definitely different IMO

There was no rifle produced in the GDR more similar to the HW35 than the 303 super, which is probably what was meant.

 

[crowski]

I was shooting this Barakuda this afternoon. It’s as close to a 35 you’re going to get. I think it’s a 85. Shoots a .22 round. Excellent gun to shoot. Have 2 of these. Crow

 

[MDriskill]

That's definitely an HW 35 (the HW 85 did not yet exist in those days, and of course the breech thumb latch is a giveaway). The EL 54 Barakuda ether-injection device was a stand-alone item, and theoretically could be mounted on any springer rifle, but AFAIK, they've only been seen on HW 35's. Unusually, Weihrauch did not stamp "HW 35" on these though, only "BARAKUDA" for the model name.

A fascinating detail in your excellent photos is these two little holes. I would guess they are for oiling the piston seal and spring? I've seen such on BSF's but never on an HW rifle.

Rumor has it that both the heavy H&N "Barakuda" pellet, and HW's plastic breech seal, were developed for the EL 54-equipped HW 35 (it shredded leather breech seals, and decapitated normal diabolo pellets!). As you note, it was typically fed solid ball ammo.

 

[MDriskill]

Today's job was to clean the HW35 barrel and push pellets through it. The results were staggering.

FTT 5.55's, the biggest-head quality pellets available:

-push through the breech block with moderate-high resistance

-exiting the breech block the resistance drops to a minimum

-at app. 6 - 8 inches from the breech (depending on individual pellet) the pellets start a freefall, and never stop until the pellet is out of the muzzle

-there is basically no choke on this Weihrauch barrel, as incredible as that is

I have always heard about loose Weihrauch .22 cal barrels but this is just ridiculous, or would be, if I weren't hundreds of bucks out of pocket with a piece of worthless scrap metal and nice walnut.

That does seem disappointing, and I'm sorry to hear it. But for academic reasons it would still be interesting to document how it chronos and groups after you get the powerplant in shape. And you could always fit another barrel to it.

 

[Mycapt65]

That does seem disappointing, and I'm sorry to hear it. But for academic reasons it would still be interesting to document how it chronos and groups after you get the powerplant in shape. And you could always fit another barrel to it.

I'm not sure that would work for him. I don't believe he's in the US and he favors 22 cal so finding a replacement barrel might be quite difficult for him. Even if he found another 22 barrel I doubt it'd be the extra long E version to match the rifle. Plus that gun needs a new piston seal and cup too. I guess it depends on his motivation and budget.

It's a hard call. Because its not a sure thing it'll shoot poorly and he's already invested in it. I know how that feels. I have an R1 I'm still dumping silly money and time into that I still don't like. I should have flipped that money pit years ago. It's hard to give up on something.

 

[Ievgen721]

Today's job was to clean the HW35 barrel and push pellets through it. The results were staggering.

FTT 5.55's, the biggest-head quality pellets available:

-push through the breech block with moderate-high resistance

-exiting the breech block the resistance drops to a minimum

-at app. 6 - 8 inches from the breech (depending on individual pellet) the pellets start a freefall, and never stop until the pellet is out of the muzzle

-there is basically no choke on this Weihrauch barrel, as incredible as that is

I have always heard about loose Weihrauch .22 cal barrels but this is just ridiculous, or would be, if I weren't hundreds of bucks out of pocket with a piece of worthless scrap metal and nice walnut.

Early HW35 barrels were 5.6mm, so this is normal, not a defect! Select the appropriate bullet.

 

[Mycapt65]

Early HW35 barrels were 5.6mm, so this is normal, not a defect! Select the appropriate bullet.

I never knew that. That's good to know.
thank you.

did they make any of their .177 barrels oversized too? That 1985 R7 I had was terrible but I've never heard of a bad 177 R7/30 barrel before. it had the cross cut front sight dovetail and wasn't sure if that had anything to do with the missing choke.

 

[Ievgen721]

I never knew that. That's good to know.
thank you.

did they make any of their .177 barrels oversized too? That 1985 R7 I had was terrible but I've never heard of a bad 177 R7/30 barrel before. it had the cross cut front sight dovetail and wasn't sure if that had anything to do with the missing choke.

As far as I know, only the HW35 had 5.6mm barrels. All other Weihrauch rifles and barrels correspond to the calibers of pneumatic weapons.

 

[specie]

Early HW35 barrels were 5.6mm, so this is normal, not a defect! Select the appropriate bullet.

I've never heard that before, and both my early HW35 are breech stamped 5.5?
I also don't understand what's going on with OP's gun: it looks beautiful almost new, and even heavily used club guns don't wear out their rifling?
Did someone bore out the barrel and why, or was the gun defective from the factory? Both very unlikely?
Also, what's supposed to be wrong with the piston seal?
OK, someone did not clean the barrel, and did fire the gun improperly a few times bending the barrel, and .22 HW35 are a bit underpowered.
It's a very nice gun I'd be proud to own.

 

[MDriskill]

Early HW35 barrels were 5.6mm, so this is normal, not a defect! Select the appropriate bullet.

I didn't know that either! I do know that older British .22 airgun bores were made to a different technical standard, and thus are a bit bigger than German ones. Metric ".22" bores are 5.5mm, but if you do the math, a true 22/100 of an Imperial inch is 5.6mm. How long did those bigger HW bores hang around, though...the OP's rifle is from 1981? I wonder if UK-market .22 HW barrels were different from German ones in those days...

I'm not a .22 guy, but FWIW - RWS's older .177 pellet designs (Hobby, Meisterkugeln, Superdome, Superpoint, Super H-point, etc.) have the biggest skirts of any brand. I've read that many UK shooters like .22 Superdomes in their old "No. 2 bore" Webley Mk 3's, so it might be worth trying them in this HW 35, along with some true 5.6's like the classic "blue tin" Eley Wasp.

Over the years I've learned that even quality manufacturers make mistakes, and build occasional lemons. BUT...more often, a thing that seems "wrong" turns out not to be, and I learn something new. If this were mine, I'd give the piston seal a soak, finish cleaning and lubing it, mash it together, settle it in a couple hundred shots, and then test velocity and accuracy. You have nothing to lose - it prolly won't shoot worse than you expect (!), and you need baseline numbers to evaluate future changes.

 

[jkingrph]

I was shooting this Barakuda this afternoon. It’s as close to a 35 you’re going to get. I think it’s a 85. Shoots a .22 round. Excellent gun to shoot. Have 2 of these. CrowView attachment 529139

Nice, I read about those years ago, but have never seen one. Do you shoot it with the ether injection?

 

[crowski]

Nice, I read about those years ago, but have never seen one. Do you shoot it with the ether injection?

I haven’t. But maybe will someday I will have to try. Both these rifles shoot excellent. Crow

 

[Toxylon]

Thanks guys.

The issue here is not just that the bore is WAY looser than any I've ever seen, having pushed pellets through many, or that guys like Mike Ellingsworth say pellets that freefall inside a barrel mean the barrel is trash.

It's that the bore is actually quite tight inside the breech. This effectively swages the pellets so that they have zero possibility to fit the much looser, free portion of the barrel. They would need to (re-)expand dramatically, which just doesn't happen. So, even a 5.6mm (true .22) pellet would not be 5.6mm when it had exited the breech block into the free section of the barrel.

If the point of losing all contact had been at, say 14" from the breech, I would have likely already chopped the barrel. But the point where contact is lost is at six freak-o inches. I cannot chop the barrel there.

I guess one option would be to fire lap the barrel, to try and make the breech block looser, or as loose as the rest of the barrel. Then I would need to find them storied true-.22 pellets that once were common but went the way of Dodo, at a cost effective way, and hope they shoot accurately in this particular barrel, a tall order. And I'm not sure that 5.6 would be enough to engage the rifling and seal properly in this barrel: it's ridiculously loose, like I've never seen before, even in entry level guns' barrels.

A new barrel seems like an easy option, but there is no guarantee that it would be much better, and it will be an expensive gamble, ordering from Germany. I have no use for another .177 cal gun that I wouldn't enjoy shooting, any way, and the HW35 barrels aren't made in .20 cal, which would be a fine caliber by me, and usually well made (unlike the HW .22 cals - listen to Thumper when he speaks...)

I'm cleaning, deburring and relubing the gun with the original parts, putting not a penny more into this wreck at this juncture, and see, for giggles, how a gun with six inches of barely usable barrel length, basically a barrel as a source of leakage, and a compromised, ancient piston seal shoots.

Does it keep pellets inside a hand span at 10 meters, and do the pellets actually stick into softwood at that range? Exciting times...

 

[Wadcutter]

So out of curiosity, see how it feels if the pellet is pushed through from the muzzle end? Maybe you could just ream the breech area.

 

[Toxylon]

So out of curiosity, see how it feels if the pellet is pushed through from the muzzle end? Maybe you could just ream the breech area.

Great minds thinks alike. I thought the same just a while back and did it.

Loading FTT 5.55's at the muzzle, they chamber perfectly, with even, medium pressure. They move through the free portion of the barrel with a light contact which isn't broken in any part. The pellets stop hard at the barrel / breech block junction. Pushing them back out without forcing them through the breech block, the pellets have light rifling marks on the heads and skirts (much lighter than when chambered and pushed through the breech as usual), as well as a bright ring at the skirt perimeter.

So, it seems the barrel could be a fine match for FTT 5.55's, but the breech block is out of whack!

Reaming a three inch length of rifled bore to an exact new ID, without messing up the rifling any, hmmm...cool idea, never done it, don't know how viable an idea it is. I guess the first hurdle would be to acquire a reamer of just the right cutting diameter. For a one-off job, the cost might get prohibitively high.

My idea of fire-lapping the breech block, what do you guys think of that? Let fired pellets coated with a little fine-grit abrasive do the job. I have notes of the procedure by Hector Medina, and have the materials needed, but no experience on it yet.