HW/Weihrauch Early 80's HW35E .22 cal

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For more weird stuff with this Weihrauch:

I noticed there was a small coil spring sticking out of the middle of the trigger mech, which didn't look right, being there open-ended like that. I have yet to dismantle a Rekord, but checking the parts diagrams confirmed there is no such spring in the Rekord.

HW35 weirdo spring.JPG


I picked the spring out: it's a thin-wire, soft spring like you would find in a ball-point pen, mangled from being churned by the trigger action. What the...???

HW35 weirdo spring 2.JPG


The only spring in a HW35 like that is the safety spring, which is in fact quite similar. But the safety spring of my gun is at the safety, and intact. There is zero chance the spring could have gotten in there in my house.

I see no indications this Weihrauch has been opened after leaving the factory. Dealing with second-hand guns, I've learned to see the evidence of opening, especially in the screw and pin heads (which of course CAN and SHOULD be taken out without leaving any mark, but usually aren't). There are none in this gun. And the barrel, action and trigger mech all have the factory original greases in various states present. It seems the extra spring got in there 44 years ago, at the factory. Sloppy as all can be, dropping safety springs inside a trigger mech.

Re: the rough cut out(s) at the barrel fork: it seems these are part of some but not all HW35's, being there to give room to the barrel lock in various stages of cocking the gun. However, it seems really weird to me that they have been left as rough as they are, with zero attempt at smoothing before the bluing process. Looking at pictures of other HW35's, they don't look this rough.

HW35 extra cuts.JPG


Weird, I tells ya.
 
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It does look like a safety spring. This fits in a blind recess and I can vouch it's hard to see and control when putting the trigger in. Likely it launched itself out of view during assembly, and the tech just grabbed another.

The other thing that looks inexplicably odd to me, referring back to your first pics, is how "Made in" was clumsily scratched out in front of "Germany" on the left side of the breech block (compare my 1973 one in pic). Something like that can make you imagine 100 silly scenarios of factory goofs or ill-advised shop mods, but old guns do have strange stories sometimes!

I've had a lot of old Weihrauchs through my hands, and the mid 70's to early 80's seemed to be a low point in quality of finish. I don't know why - retirement of older pre-war trained workers, change to more automated production? Guns made before and after then often look better.

IMG_6168.jpeg
 
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Toxylon said:
Great minds thinks alike. I thought the same just a while back and did it.

Loading FTT 5.55's at the muzzle, they chamber perfectly, with even, medium pressure. They move through the free portion of the barrel with a light contact which isn't broken in any part. The pellets stop hard at the barrel / breech block junction. Pushing them back out without forcing them through the breech block, the pellets have light rifling marks on the heads and skirts (much lighter than when chambered and pushed through the breech as usual), as well as a bright ring at the skirt perimeter.

So, it seems the barrel could be a fine match for FTT 5.55's, but the breech block is out of whack!

Reaming a three inch length of rifled bore to an exact new ID, without messing up the rifling any, hmmm...cool idea, never done it, don't know how viable an idea it is. I guess the first hurdle would be to acquire a reamer of just the right cutting diameter. For a one-off job, the cost might get prohibitively high.

My idea of fire-lapping the breech block, what do you guys think of that? Let fired pellets coated with a little fine-grit abrasive do the job. I have notes of the procedure by Hector Medina, and have the materials needed, but no experience on it yet.
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Every Weihrauch barrel I've checked is tighter at the breech block. The barrels are splined and then pressed in the breech. That tightens the bore. I wrote a whole thing about it here not long ago. Some of them are tighter than others. It's an artifact of manufacturing. I believe it's deliberately left.

The constriction at the breech may be there to drive up peak pressure and thus create a pop gun effect to get full velocity. It also sizes the pellet before it hits the true bore size. Unfortunately if it's too tight you get your situation and the situation I had with that old R7. The pellet rattles down the bore and accuracy is poor.

Fire lapping might open the bore at the breech but it might have a negative effect on the rest of the bore. It also may reduce the peak pressure and reduce velocity. Which I know is important to you. It may work fine. It's a gamble either way. 22 is the world's most popular caliber I'd look into finding a gunsmithing reamer or a proper sized drill blank and hone the breech end only with clover abrasive.. Another possibility is just enough steel wool pulled through a needle eye jag that it gets tight only at the breech.

Trying to fix one of these barrels is kinda of a black science to me. It's hard to know if you're gonna make it better or worse. I have a 22 barrel that's down on power and still haven't figured out yet. I drilled out a very tight choke and the power did not improve but the accuracy did. Go figure? Exactly opposite of my expectations. If the accuracy is terrible on yours. You really have nothing to loose. I'd test it first before removing any bore material. It may not be as bad as you think.

Mike Driskill is right. That spring is definitely a safety mechanism spring. A mangled one at that.

Best of luck to you
 
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I know you said that you've cleaned the barrel, but have you tried a good bore solvent and brush to get any lead out? If you have a rough leade edge, it could be leaving a buildup of lead causing the restriction near the breech. The thought was triggered by the following post in another thread.

Air Arms - Tx200 leade

Hello, I've just received a TX200HC. I was inspecting it and cleaning the barrel and noticed the leade was a bit rough looking. When inserting a cotton swab, and removing it, the leade pulls some cotton. I can feel a bit of burr with the tip of a tooth pick. This made me question what others...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com
 
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Based on the scratched out address (done at the factory?), bad barrel, smashed spring in trigger housing, rough machining on the breech jaw. Perhaps this was built on a Monday am after a very rough weekend? Or maybe somebody cobbled this gun together from secondary parts?

Either way, hopefully you can get it back up and running.
 
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Those tooling marks boggle me & the grind/wire out of the "made in...Ive looked at a ton of these things to purchase & own 2 at present. Never seen 1 like that. Wonder if it was a factory reject that got into a workers hands , then the public. I have an early Tokai reborn LP guitar like that from Japan. It was not serial numbered & only a factory worker could have them in the Japan factory. He is my earliest 35 I have
PXL_20250117_182543251.MP.jpgPXL_20250117_182655906.jpgPXL_20250117_183037463.jpg
 
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Good suggestions, guys!

Yes, I have concerns about the fire-lapping messing up the good part of the barrel, with the polishing grit flying every which way. But fire lapping is a proven technique to level bore irregularities, and it wouldn't really do that if there was no predictability in the results.

If the breech block was constricted by just lead contamination, that would be a really good situation. JB Bore Paste, which I would use, is not available here. There likely are some competing products, I'll have to look into them. As per Ron's HW experience, I guess I should drop my deep-seated qualms about using a bronze brush on a springer barrel in this case.


Back to today's work:

This Weihrauch just keeps on giving.

I made a quickie custom tool to get the piston seal off for an oil soak (don't you just love Snowflake Guns that need custom-made tools, only for them?).

Even when turning the piston seal nut with leverage and real force, it turned extremely unwillingly, a sixth of a turn with each really heavy try. What's more, the turning didn't seem to get any easier along the way. There was no sign of rust, or of any kind of thread lock in there (which I'm not sure even existed in 1981), and the unrelenting resistance was a strong hint.

After the nut finally came off, it simply refused to get back on. Looking closely I could see the piston seal bolt had some cross-thread type of damage. Given the heavy threads of these parts this was quite something. I had to break out my tapping tools, determine that the piston seal bolt had a M8 / 1.25 thread, and re-thread it. Now the nut went on and off as supposed.

The piston seal "spreader / filler" (what would be the right term?) that I had noticed was cracked, was in fact cleaved in two (see pic). Gluing grease-soaked, ancient plastic was something I wasn't keen on arranging, or waiting for. Luckily, the compressive stress and the design of the spreader are such that the part can support the leather seal internally even when it's not in one piece. You know, for giggles.

HW35 piston seal parts.JPG


A day+ soaking in neatsfoot oil (see pic) didn't really loosen the hard leather seal like the same procedure has done in my other leather-sealed guns, but I wasn't going to wait for days for something to maybe happen. The seal did get a fresh, plush oiling, anyway, and the piston itself a thorough cleaning from the sticky crud it came with. I was going to use the neatsfoot oil as the only lubrication for the piston / chamber, as I have done with my other leather-sealers, with success.

Piston resistance in the chamber was better than (the non-existent) before, and blocking the TP the piston resisted pushing like it should. I was pretty amazed that a piston seal with extensive loss-of-material damage could apparently seal this well. Leather is known for its forgiveness, and the evidence is mounting.

The Montag Weihrauch is now back in one piece, waiting test shots, chronoing and sighting in.

With the three Weihrauchs under by belt so far, spread in age and model, I can say their quality, fit and finish really is skin deep. For actual shooting, or any long-term prospects, you need to be prepared for a whole lotta work.
 
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The cross-threading or whatever was done to secure your piston seal screw seems to have been normal then - my 1980 one is exactly the same way. I had intended to take the seal off to soak it, but quickly surrendered and just stood the piston in oil instead.

Loose piston seals seem to be something that Germans used to worry excessively about, lol. Leather-sealed Dianas of that era have the piston screw staked with a pin that's blind on one end. Removing the seal requires turning the screw hard enough to shear the pin...I've never succeeded in doing that!
IMG_4061.jpeg
 
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Mike,

One of my early springer purchases was a D25 .177 cal from around 1960. The leather piston seal was in an undersized state, with velocities to match, but for the life of me I couldn't get the piston seal screw moving to expand the seal. Well, lots of other guns to work on.

With the little Diana sometimes grabbing my attention from the bigger artillery, I gleaned info on the ancient Diana piston seal dilemma from airgun forums, your posts included, and learned there's a locking pin keeping the seal screw from turning, and you must shear it to either adjust the seal or to take it off.

Sure enough, my gun had one those pins, too. But even my Swedish impact driver on the seal screw could not get the pin to shear, no matter how hard I pounded. Some people had managed to pull the pin, but it was impossible on my gun, at least for me. As a last resort, I drilled deep into the pin. That finally did the trick, and I could manipulate the seal.
 
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Did you guys see this one? I didn't mention it before the auction ended because that ain't cool. Maybe a bitsa. Reblued
www.ebay.com

Rare Weihrauch Barakuda 5.6 cal Air Rifle | eBay

#1, HW Barakuda rifles (aka EL54) had ether injection tubes on the right side of the rifle. They were wild pieces that were produced from around 1954-1981 I believe. This rifle does have a wild story that goes with it, but who knows what that story is.
www.ebay.com
Screenshot 2025-01-19 at 14-49-49 Rare Weihrauch Barakuda 5.6 cal Air Rifle eBay.png
 
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KWK said:
Did you guys see this one? I didn't mention it before the auction ended because that ain't cool. Maybe a bitsa. Reblued
www.ebay.com

Rare Weihrauch Barakuda 5.6 cal Air Rifle | eBay

#1, HW Barakuda rifles (aka EL54) had ether injection tubes on the right side of the rifle. They were wild pieces that were produced from around 1954-1981 I believe. This rifle does have a wild story that goes with it, but who knows what that story is.
www.ebay.com
View attachment 530659
Click to expand...
did you buy it?
 
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