Ok thank you. I don’t need it to be particularly powerful, but I did want to see if it could match the advertised specs.
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Empire xs barrel and projectiles
- Thread starter MrP
- Start date
So I backed off the hammer spring about a quarter turn - I’m not sure how many turns would be needed to make a change recall reading that very small changes to the hammer spring adjuster made a big difference in velocity. I will see what effect that has a little later today.
I also switched the cocking lever over to the left side. I like the idea of being able to cock the gun without taking my right hand off the grip.
Some things I observed when disassembling and looking more closely:
no plastic! I had it partially disassembled this morning and kept expecting to find some plastic parts, but couldn’t find any (other than one small part that glides between the barrel and airtube and for which plastic is probably the best option.
I was very happy to see that the barrel itself is also threaded 1/2x20 so it is easy to remove the air stripper / shroud and replace it with with a longer or more effective one (as opposed to adding a moderator onto the end of the shroud it came with).
Based on my experience, i am
pretty sure a slightly longer shroud tube (even just 2”) with the right kind of baffles could make a huge difference in the report and get it reasonably backyard friendly.
I also switched the cocking lever over to the left side. I like the idea of being able to cock the gun without taking my right hand off the grip.
Some things I observed when disassembling and looking more closely:
no plastic! I had it partially disassembled this morning and kept expecting to find some plastic parts, but couldn’t find any (other than one small part that glides between the barrel and airtube and for which plastic is probably the best option.
I was very happy to see that the barrel itself is also threaded 1/2x20 so it is easy to remove the air stripper / shroud and replace it with with a longer or more effective one (as opposed to adding a moderator onto the end of the shroud it came with).
Based on my experience, i am
pretty sure a slightly longer shroud tube (even just 2”) with the right kind of baffles could make a huge difference in the report and get it reasonably backyard friendly.
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The issue was caused by the moderator I added. Grouping just fine with the stock shroud. Just shot a couple of magazines with a mini ldc on the end that is just an empty tube. Rocker1 from the GTA made me a few short cans like these for a very fair price. The overall length is 4”. Does a great job making this into something I am comfortable shooting in my yard - fortunately I don’t have to fool anybody into thinking I’m not shooting anything. I’ve got the nicest neighbors. With this addition, I’m pretty confident the sound isn’t too intrusive.
when I was zeroing close to the target I would get one shot right at the aim point, followed by a shot 2 inches to the right. sometimes that shot to the right repeats, other times the next shot will be back on target. The fact that it’s switching back-and-forth and not shooting completely at random has me thinking something might be loose but I can’t find anything.
I guess I need to take the scope off and try it on another gun to make sure the scope isn’t the problem. If it isn’t the scope, the only other thing I could think of was maybe an issue with the moderator I added. I’ll have to try a handful of unmoderated shots just to see if they are more consistent.
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This gun is shooting much hotter than it did when I first got it. Here are 12 shots with crosman 14.3 ultra mags from 200 bar down to 160 bar with the hammer spring backed off about 3/4 of a turn from factory setting. I also neglected to sort the list in ascending order so the first shot is at the bottom - this is a descending string.
I accidentally ended the string before shooting the second clip but . Did not expect this result at all… will try another half turn out next because I don’t need this power for plinking in my yard. It is nice to know the potential exists to shoot heavier pellets
I accidentally ended the string before shooting the second clip but . Did not expect this result at all… will try another half turn out next because I don’t need this power for plinking in my yard. It is nice to know the potential exists to shoot heavier pellets
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Are you sure that you’re not having a chronograph issue? The speed difference between a 14.3 and 18.1 is around 75fps. That would mean that your gun is capable of shooting a 18.1 at 1,046 fps. I don’t think so. If your gun is somehow managing to do this, it’s no wonder you are trying to make it quiet. And having accuracy issues. The amount of wasted air would be insane. Your pellets would be riding an air blast out to 20 yards.
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Accuracy is fine - the issue was entirely a function of the scope mount.
I realize it’s almost certainly a chronograph issue. it was one of the newer inverted Caldwell chronographs outdoors, 5-6’ away. I shot three shots through it with the led lights off, saw 1000fps+ high speeds and figured something was wrong… fidgeted with the chronograph, restarted, switched led lights on… the next shots were right in line all the way through that string. I would expect it to have a maximum speed more like 900 ft./s or a little less with those pellets.
Something isn’t right, but the experience was exactly as I described it. I was wondering if maybe I overfilled the gun but I don’t think that’s possible. Fog from the muzzle blast maybe? I was only 5 feet from the chronograph.
I’m going to continue backing it down until I get a curve of some kind and a bit higher shot count, and make a note of that number, and then see what it does with the hammer spring at maximum.
I backed off the hammer spring a bit more and got this string of 24 shots. More in line with what I would expect.
14.3 grain
I realize it’s almost certainly a chronograph issue. it was one of the newer inverted Caldwell chronographs outdoors, 5-6’ away. I shot three shots through it with the led lights off, saw 1000fps+ high speeds and figured something was wrong… fidgeted with the chronograph, restarted, switched led lights on… the next shots were right in line all the way through that string. I would expect it to have a maximum speed more like 900 ft./s or a little less with those pellets.
Something isn’t right, but the experience was exactly as I described it. I was wondering if maybe I overfilled the gun but I don’t think that’s possible. Fog from the muzzle blast maybe? I was only 5 feet from the chronograph.
I’m going to continue backing it down until I get a curve of some kind and a bit higher shot count, and make a note of that number, and then see what it does with the hammer spring at maximum.
I backed off the hammer spring a bit more and got this string of 24 shots. More in line with what I would expect.
14.3 grain
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Here’s a shortcut for you to try. Fill the gun to 200b. Fire a shot over the chronograph. Back the spring out a half turn and fire another shot. Keep doing it until you are 820-830fps. Then refill to 200b and fire a one mag string. Then it will be easy to see what to do after that.
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Also, if you decide to burn up some drill bits and bore out your hammer to 1/2”, I’ll send you a spring.
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I might take you up on that because at some point I want to see if i can make a few small improvements without stressing the system.
Is this the spring that you used in the SSG? I think I understand the principle of those and could put a rough one together. I don’t quite understand how the larger hole in the hammer relates to the spring, but I’d I would like to understand for sure.
I admit I’d be hesitant to make a non-reversible change to a critical part like that without a replacement available. Don’t have any experience working with metal but I do have a very basic drill press.
Definitely appreciate learning a little bit about what some good changes are so I can work my way towards those. There doesn’t seem to be much or any information online about tuning this gun, improving action or trigger, optimal porting of the barrel etc.
Is this the spring that you used in the SSG? I think I understand the principle of those and could put a rough one together. I don’t quite understand how the larger hole in the hammer relates to the spring, but I’d I would like to understand for sure.
I admit I’d be hesitant to make a non-reversible change to a critical part like that without a replacement available. Don’t have any experience working with metal but I do have a very basic drill press.
Definitely appreciate learning a little bit about what some good changes are so I can work my way towards those. There doesn’t seem to be much or any information online about tuning this gun, improving action or trigger, optimal porting of the barrel etc.
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There are quite a few ways to approach finding a starting point on these unregulated guns. Another approach is let’s say your starting velocity is 860 at 200b. Fill it to 220b and see if your starting velocity drops or goes up. With that information, you make your next decision on what to do.
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I noticed that Krale did not list the correct specs for XS.
Krale says 31 FPE but the manufacturer Kral says 31 Joules for the .22 which is more like 22 FPE (which is consistent with the actual performance). Just FYI
Krale says 31 FPE but the manufacturer Kral says 31 Joules for the .22 which is more like 22 FPE (which is consistent with the actual performance). Just FYI
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OK I recognize the “ How can I get more power out of XXX airgun” questions get a little old.
I don’t want to abuse the Empire xs but I’d like to pursue a little more power if the platform is designed to take it. I ordered the gun thinking it would be up around 30 FPE based on the Krale posted specifications, and that feels to me like a pretty good place to be with a 22 caliber airgun. As set up this is going to be in the low 20’s to get a decent curve/shot string.
I know I already asked this, but is there basically zero chance that smoothing out and opening the porting on the barrel vents would add a little power? That is something I feel like I can pull off but I don’t want to waste my time. I am aware that changes to the valve stem are needed to make a major difference but I don’t think I can pull that off. I’ve been told that contouring and smoothing the portable can get a little more energy out of some valves.
I shot another shot string recently after backing off the hammer spring adjuster. Still over sprung so I will try another half turn tomorrow.
I’d like to try making a spring stopping guide just because I think I can pull that off, and if it has some effect on air consumption, it would be worth it.
I understand the concept, but wouldn’t know where to start for a replacement spring, and wouldn’t want to mess with the stock spring. One of these days I’ll take a look at the hammer and spring and see if I have anything vaguely similar in my spring stash to work with.
I don’t want to abuse the Empire xs but I’d like to pursue a little more power if the platform is designed to take it. I ordered the gun thinking it would be up around 30 FPE based on the Krale posted specifications, and that feels to me like a pretty good place to be with a 22 caliber airgun. As set up this is going to be in the low 20’s to get a decent curve/shot string.
I know I already asked this, but is there basically zero chance that smoothing out and opening the porting on the barrel vents would add a little power? That is something I feel like I can pull off but I don’t want to waste my time. I am aware that changes to the valve stem are needed to make a major difference but I don’t think I can pull that off. I’ve been told that contouring and smoothing the portable can get a little more energy out of some valves.
I shot another shot string recently after backing off the hammer spring adjuster. Still over sprung so I will try another half turn tomorrow.
I’d like to try making a spring stopping guide just because I think I can pull that off, and if it has some effect on air consumption, it would be worth it.
I understand the concept, but wouldn’t know where to start for a replacement spring, and wouldn’t want to mess with the stock spring. One of these days I’ll take a look at the hammer and spring and see if I have anything vaguely similar in my spring stash to work with.
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You’re getting close. I told you it was a light pellet shooter and you’ll probably be around 820fps with it when tuned properly. I wouldn’t lie, I own one. Porting won’t cure your ill. You have several options. You purchased a low powered gun. Embrace that and enjoy the gun for what it is. If you start the power process, like I said before, theirs is not one mod that’s a game changer with this gun. It takes doing a couple things that each gives you a tiny bit to get to your goal. If you don’t have machinist skills, just get it tuned properly and enjoy it or sell it.
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I managed to improve the action and the feel of the trigger without any non-reversible changes. I added a thin nylon washer to the hex nut that holds the cocking lever - that eliminated any vertical play. It also has just enough friction to keep the lever in one place after cocking - useful when inserting a magazine (the probe would slip forward after cocking if the gun was tilted forward).
I noticed the trigger felt a little funny - like there were some extra bumps instead of a smooth pull.
Took a look and the issue was due the way the linkage from the trigger to the sear in the back is attached. There is a washer and a little slack. When pulling the trigger that mm of slack is perceptible so I added a small O-ring between the nut and the washer and now it is very smooth.
Not sure what’s next… I’m hoping to find someone who carries parts so I can do some experimenting without permanently changing anything. It would be great to have an extra hammer and an extra spring or two for example.
I noticed the trigger felt a little funny - like there were some extra bumps instead of a smooth pull.
Took a look and the issue was due the way the linkage from the trigger to the sear in the back is attached. There is a washer and a little slack. When pulling the trigger that mm of slack is perceptible so I added a small O-ring between the nut and the washer and now it is very smooth.
Not sure what’s next… I’m hoping to find someone who carries parts so I can do some experimenting without permanently changing anything. It would be great to have an extra hammer and an extra spring or two for example.
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I believe I am getting a little hammer bounce with this airgun. I did a slo-mo video of the gun firing and noticed there are two small puffs of fog exiting the muzzle and a very fast “double report” sound which is audible when slowed down.
I am going to try a short stiff spring and see if that can eliminate the bounce. I happen to have a few springs that might work and will try them out in the next day or two.
I am going to try a short stiff spring and see if that can eliminate the bounce. I happen to have a few springs that might work and will try them out in the next day or two.
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Don't blame Krale about the packing, blame customs that rips through stuff without care and just slams it back in the box for UPS to sort out.
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