Cars don't win races, drivers do. While a really great car improves the teams chances of success, it's the monkey behind the wheel that turns potential into reality.
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EPOCH Skout at RMAC?
- Thread starter Centercut
- Start date
I’d have to disagree with this logic. Prototypes are inherently more likely to experience bugs and technical issues. There were some Epochs at NAC that experienced technical issues.
It takes some guts (willingness to take on risk) to shoot a prototype at a major event when you are an accomplished enough shooter to win with your proven platform. Like a race car driver going with a new car when he knows his regular car is good enough to get him the checkered flag.
-Ed
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I spoke to Skout and they were rather humble in their decision to only enter into Sportsman class at RMAC.
I believe young Garner earned himself 2nd place.
I believe young Garner earned himself 2nd place.
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True... by some Trolls definition on AGN, "stock" means you can't even adjust the trigger, adjust the HST for pellet speed, or even clean the barrel. But common sense alone will tell you that's just silly...
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I'd say the entire team wins the race, including the pit crew, but that is just my 2c and depends on the style of race. There is a lot more decision making going into those races than just what the driver does. Team effort, including the builder of the car.
Its not the shooter who wins
The shooter
Its the pellet maker
The gun maker
The gunsmith/tuner
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It was a really great test of the gun's overall accuracy and precision, since there was no wind, and "reading the wind" wasn't really a factor.
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Shooters dream, near indoor like conditions, any element of error one can remove improves end result, and this is a clear demonstration of that, as you have been very adamant about, this years results is not about pro vs sportsman, its a difference of shooting conditions. Once that is explained the average reader should be able to understand, otherwise easily misconstrued as pros being far superior benchrest shooters.
-Matt
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Wow lots of great feedback and concerns! Just some insight from our perspective. When we told people we were competing with a Chinese gun, many laughed and asked "Don't you want to win?". Psychologically it does play with your mind and put in doubt. So from the start people already counted us out. We didn't have 100% confidence in our gun since we only had 1 week to play with it and workout some bugs. However, we felt it was good enough during practice to compete with. We were aiming for top 10. What barrel is in there? CZ, LW, Smooth Twist or poly? Nope, in-house made by same manufacturer. HA! Sucker you have no chance. I think for us to be able to compete against a lot of proven shooters around the world and place 1st and 2nd, it's a big accomplishment and we celebrated for sure! Thayne placed 6th last year in RMAC and Val didn't even qualify for the finals. This gun is no different than any other guns out there. It has a valve, tank, plenum. Only thing different is that it has a bull barrel and boy is it accurate. So accurate it broke the bench competition record. We didn't break any rules, these competition is an opportunity for lots of people and innovators. Hardly any of these guns are stock and that's the great thing about it. Everyone is looking for accessories that may help their shooting accuracy. Either at competition or in the backyard pesting. What we accomplish will push our sport further. It opened many manufacturers eyes in what features to add to their guns. I know in the firearm side, there are competitions that require the gun to be stock. But until then, airgun manufacturers will continue to innovate and test in these competitions.
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You've definitely piqued the interest of a ton of people! I'm not in the bench shooting world and a 17lb gun is just way too much for my pesting uses, however I'm definitely interested just to learn more about it. You boys did your homework and seems to have been a pretty successful go at it. Looking forward to the finished product!
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Love it,....... Chinese gun with a no name Chinese barrel smokes all the big dogs, Gotta love it !
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As mentioned, many sports represent a test of both the operator and equipment. Equipment manufacturers benefit from selling the gear that wins the contest because consumers want to gain the same competitive advantage in their Sunday league (or whatever). Airguns are distinct however, in the sense that the vast majority of consumers don’t want to buy the gun for benchrest contests, but rather to shoot recreationally or for hunting/pesting. In both of those cases, a 20+lb gun is impractical. I think that’s what the detractors are saying here - “we’d like to continue to see a contest with the very best shooters also testing equipment that is compatible with our needs.”
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I understand that but at the same time why not use a purpose built tool for what the need is. A dedicated bench gun seems the logical way to go if your wanting to compete. Most of us have multiple airguns, why not match the gun to the job. I've been blessed and have owned many guns in the past. I pest and my choices reflect that. Evol mini and Uramex Notos. Compact and lightweight guns that for my uses can't be beat. The Evol is one of the most accurate guns I've owned. I would never use it in a bench rest competition though as it's lightweight and compact and wasn't designed for that. If I were to get into benchrest I'd go for something long and heavy like a RAW HM1000X. Just something i personally owned in .30 a few years ago. Very comfortable gun to shoot on a bench being long and heavy. Why I don't own it anymore is my main shooting is far from that. And even though it weighed 11lbs or so ready to go it had some good recoil and muzzle flip and took alot more concentration and follow through to shoot very well. As Mike said shooting 920fps with a 44gr pellet and no recoil or muzzle flip, sign me up! If the guns only shot off a bench ever why not have it as heavy as possible? Just my opinion lol. I know people aren't happy it was a prototype and aren't happy they couldn't buy one yet, but nobody is stopping you from making your gun 20lbs or not having your own bull barrel made for your gun.
I think it's awesome the major manufacturers got beat by some 1 week old prototype. Send them scrambling to come up with something new and improved. I just think it's funny the people that were perfectly happy with there benchrest guns before RMAC that all of a sudden some new gun out of nowhere comes and does damn well compared to the major brands all of a sudden want guns like this banned if they can't have one themselves.
sounds like some people are alittle self conscious there barrel isn't as thick.... 
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I agree - I love the science contest aspect.I understand that but at the same time why not use a purpose built tool for what the need is. A dedicated bench gun seems the logical way to go if your wanting to compete. Most of us have multiple airguns, why not match the gun to the job. I've been blessed and have owned many guns in the past. I pest and my choices reflect that. Evol mini and Uramex Notos. Compact and lightweight guns that for my uses can't be beat. The Evol is one of the most accurate guns I've owned. I would never use it in a bench rest competition though as it's lightweight and compact and wasn't designed for that. If I were to get into benchrest I'd go for something long and heavy like a RAW HM1000X. Just something i personally owned in .30 a few years ago. Very comfortable gun to shoot on a bench being long and heavy. Why I don't own it anymore is my main shooting is far from that. And even though it weighed 11lbs or so ready to go it had some good recoil and muzzle flip and took alot more concentration and follow through to shoot very well. As Mike said shooting 920fps with a 44gr pellet and no recoil or muzzle flip, sign me up! If the guns only shot off a bench ever why not have it as heavy as possible? Just my opinion lol. I know people aren't happy it was a prototype and aren't happy they couldn't buy one yet, but nobody is stopping you from making your gun 20lbs or not having your own bull barrel made for your gun.
I think it's awesome the major manufacturers got beat by some 1 week old prototype. Send them scrambling to come up with something new and improved. I just think it's funny the people that were perfectly happy with there benchrest guns before RMAC that all of a sudden some new gun out of nowhere comes and does damn well compared to the major brands all of a sudden want guns like this banned if they can't have one themselves.
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I don't know how feel. NASCAR standardized their cars. MLB, NFL, PGA all have rules . That being said , damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
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Being a prototype in test .. and it for sure pass .. it's a gun that will be for sale? Some time later ? .. me personally don't mind a 16lb + or whatever that gun weights.. bull barrels have always been the ticket. For accuracy in hp pcp but really difficult to find someone with the time to fit a bull barrel..hope they have them for sale, some time next year.
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Result always change with rules changes.
For example, Donny said he got 14 PCS samples. If there is a new rule said “sample gun can’t “. as long as Donny sells online before the competition, he can avoid the new rules.
The record of EBR 75yards has been held by a homemaker for the first ten years. This rule will only limited Homemade but have no effect on Brand gun.
many people overlook the fact that “new gun =advantage”? donny said he received the new gun just two weeks before RMAC. That means he only had about a week to shooting and turning . Compared to guns that have been used for many years, this is not an advantage.
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Not all new guns can increase by 5-15 points. This is very rare. Most new guns actually don't make much difference.
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I remember at EBR a few years back. it was not windy at all the first two days, and the shooters using those fancy vice units with all the fancy knobs and fine adjustment ability killing it. That is until the third and quite windy day. I won the sport class by a fair margin that year, and always said the wind took all those guys out before the match started. They could not adjust fast enough for the wind changing every five seconds. Other guys that shot well on the preliminary rounds fell apart as well. Practice your wind and you will be happy when it’s there during competition. 20 pound rifles are a one trick pony also. I believe if conditions were windy the best shooter would be the one on top here.
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I hope one day there will be an shootint competition at The Range at Preserve Boulder Hill-Rhode Island, then PCP guns and ammunition will be judged more "reverently"!...
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