Niksan Escalade Aluminum Bottles

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SpindleB

SpindleB

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Mar 18, 2024
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Oakland, Ca
I was looking at my Escalade bottles and I noticed that the rear bottle has a working pressure of 200 bar. I cant see the rating on the front bottle, same size as rear, and they have loctite on the threads so no turning it. The gun is rated for 250 bar.

So I sent a support ticket to DonnyFL. The response was bizarre. They claim the bottles were mislabeled by the manufacturer. The bizarre part is that the bottles were not recalled and scrapped but actually used.

I'm not worried about a bottle tested to 300bar blowing at 250 bar. But how do they justify using "mislabeled" bottles?

I actually doubt they are mislabeled.

Ignoring the serious liability issue, DonnyFL knows about the markings and regardless whether or not it is mislabeled the consumer (me) should have been notified.

Anyone ever hear of mislabeled air bottles before?
 
Aluminum bottles, stamped into bottle.
Which is why i doubt they are mislabeled.

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LOL, airgunrevisions jumped in the thread over in the industry forum and defended DonnyFL as if selling mislabeled permanently stamped safety data is perfectly normal.

No, it isn't. It is a 100% recall of ALL possibly affected materials, quarantine of said materials, segregation of actual affected materials and eventually destruction of affected materials.

You don't just get to say, oh they are marked wrong and ignore the issue.

But 99.99% chance the bottle are marked correctly just because there was no recall.
 
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Hobbyman2007 said:
I would say that the gun itself was mislabelled at 250bar rather than the 200 bar that it has stamped on the bottles. Do the bottles have a manufacturers name on them? I’m willing to bet they were sourced and not produced by Niksan.
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No, mfg data is 250 bar, on all the web sites including www.niksandefense.com . My Ozark, essentially the same gun with a single bottle is 250 bar.

But don't you think DonnyFL would have led with that in their first response rather than claiming, ludicrously, the bottles are mislabeled?
 
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jmohme said:
I do not know if it would ever be a problme or not, but I do know that if this were an item in a workplace, it would be a very expensive OSHA violation.

As I already said, I don't know it is a potential issue, but I would not accept it. I have seen what high pressure tanks can do when they fail.
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45 years as a Test Engineer, I've been called upon more than a few times to explain to a manager in some company what would be the effect of "making it go away". One of the effects sometimes being a years long proctological exam by the state and feds.

Intentionally opening yourself up to that is just insane. Opening yourself up to the civil repercussions if something fails is corporate suicide.
 
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First, all CF bottles are aluminum and reinforced with CF. SCUBA aluminum bottles are rated for about 200 BAR, but the burst discs are typically rated at 250 BAR. I also use aluminum 12 liter SCUBA bottles and I charge them to 230 BAR and so far, without issue because they are tested to 250 BAR. When a burst disc bursts, it is very exciting. If a bottle bursts, it is deadly. Aluminum has very poor fatigue resistance and when charged, they swell. When reinforced with CF, they do not swell hardly at all and get uprated to 300 BAR. It is this flexing that limits the tanks life as well as corrosion from water. The amount of swelling is easily measured and part of a certification test. I would not use ANY aluminum bottle beyond 230 BAR. I think you should insist on returning that bottle for a CF wrapped bottle rated for 300 BAR.
 
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steve-l said:
First, all CF bottles are aluminum and reinforced with CF. SCUBA aluminum bottles are rated for about 200 BAR, but the burst discs are typically rated at 250 BAR. I also use aluminum 12 liter SCUBA bottles and I charge them to 230 BAR and so far, without issue because they are tested to 250 BAR. When a burst disc bursts, it is very exciting. If a bottle bursts, it is deadly. Aluminum has very poor fatigue resistance and when charged, they swell. When reinforced with CF, they do not swell hardly at all and get uprated to 300 BAR. It is this flexing that limits the tanks life as well as corrosion from water. The amount of swelling is easily measured and part of a certification test. I would not use ANY aluminum bottle beyond 230 BAR. I think you should insist on returning that bottle for a CF wrapped bottle rated for 300 BAR.
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1. I would have replaced the aluminum bottles with CF immediately upon arrival. But the bottles are thread locked and cannot be removed without application of heat to break thread lock. Not going to void warranty.

2. DFL refuses to cover shipping costs. They are responsible and hold liability for the problem

3. I'm a Test Engineer and am quite conversant in materials and liability issues.
 
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At the very least they need to provided documentation from the manufacture of the mistake. It would be in donny's best interest to supply that. Let liability turn to the manufacturer of the rifle. If they are smart they send documentation from the bottle manufacturer and liability is on them.

I also remember this happening on a Kral or Reximex rifle that had a front and rear bottle.
 
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You CANNOT just document a PERMANENT safety marking away. As the seller their responsibility is to their specific customers. That they know of the issue and have failed to appraise their customers, let alone deal with the issue, raises the bar on their liability.

There is only one path IF the bottles are mislabeled. Which I highly doubt is the case:
Recall
Quarantine
Segregation
Destruction

Documenting the issue throughout the process.

DonnyFL either has to replace the gun or the bottles. As the bottles are thread locked to the gun, they have 1 choice.

There is one other alternative, accept that the permanent markings are correct. Which is the most likely case here. Which still means replace the gun at sellers expense.

This is not a warranty issue but a safety issue. DonnyFL wants to treat it as if there is a fault in the gun like a leak or broken screw.
 
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nobody1 said:
On my Ozark (which only has the front bottle) the markings onthe bottle are PW250PH375BAR.
I assume that 250BAR is the nominal work pressure and 375BAR is the failing point.
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PW250 is Working Pressure 250 bar
PH375 is the pressure to which the vessel was tested.

The bottle from my Ozark is the same.
I have a 500cc CF bottle on the gun.

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