No matter what you choose, there is no free lunch. Everything has a tradeoff.
I like them both but, most of my scopes are SFP!
I like them both but, most of my scopes are SFP!
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FFP or SFP Thinking about a change
- Thread starter markT
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Only half correct there.
The boon for FFP lies in unchanging sub-tensions not just on the vertical crosshair, but the horizontal crosshair too.
Meaning those windage marks never change either. Dialing elevation is the easy part, figuring and holding for wind is the voodoo.
FFP all the way for me. Reticle sub-tension marks that change with magnification leave the door WIDE open for Murphy.
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Thank you for all your replies. I think I will stick with the SFP.
Its what I'm used to. Costs less. At lower mag like 8 power I wont have to worry about reticle size...
Its what I'm used to. Costs less. At lower mag like 8 power I wont have to worry about reticle size...
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You did the right thing. All this FFP stuff is so overrated. It's ridiculous.
I have several of both FFP and SFP. I know how to use both. If I could only have one, it would be a SFP
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You're right. But the guys that dial turrets or just use Kentucky windage aren't likely to use the sub-tension marks for windage either. But if someone wants to dial the elevation turret and use sub-tension marks for windage, there definitely is an advantage to using a FFL scope.
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On my 3-12x44 SF FFP IR, I do the bulk of my plinking and pesting at 8-12x. If in a situation where I’m using 3x? I use the centerpoint of the reticle. Or, simply turn on the IR… no need to worry about reticle size. I have both types and prefer the simpler math of FFPs.
Overated and ridiculous? Before knowing the difference I personally missed a lot of critters using SFP scopes. Didn’t realize the different magnifications would affect hold overs and hold offs… Thanks goodness we can choose what most appropiate for our individual uses…
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agreed.On my 3-12x44 SF FFP IR, I do the bulk of my plinking and pesting at 8-12x. If in a situation where I’m using 3x? I use the centerpoint of the reticle. Or, simply turn on the IR… no need to worry about reticle size. I have both types and prefer the simpler math of FFPs.
Overated and ridiculous? Before knowing the difference I personally missed a lot of critters using SFP scopes. Didn’t realize the different magnifications would affect hold overs and hold offs… Thanks goodness we can choose what most appropiate for our individual uses…
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Only half right again.
I’ve been around long range shooting for a couple decades, and have shot about a dozen or so LR type matches. The “guys that dial the turrets for range” never dial a windage correction into the scope. It’s always dial for range, and hold for wind. This is why having unchanging reticle sub-tensions is important.
If you’re one of the “aim a little high and left” guys…. then it doesn’t really matter if it’s FFP or SFP.
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I have a bunch of SFP scopes for airgun and longer range applications and a couple of FFPs for long range (firearm only).
Last year I got my first high magnification / FFP scope and use it for field target. While the FFP doesn't get used within the field target competition, I find it very handy for many reasons. So at some point (that's a financial metric in this case) I'll be looking for another.
Right now a limiting factor is finding FFP scopes that focus to 10 yards and have good optical quality. They can get expensive.
Last year I got my first high magnification / FFP scope and use it for field target. While the FFP doesn't get used within the field target competition, I find it very handy for many reasons. So at some point (that's a financial metric in this case) I'll be looking for another.
Right now a limiting factor is finding FFP scopes that focus to 10 yards and have good optical quality. They can get expensive.
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I never change my magnification. Used to be about 9x now I’m down to 7.5x. I see some guys constantly twisting those knobs on magnification. Probably win championships doing that. Yea.. I’m just a find critter and shoot hunter.
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Hey David,
you already might know of what's out there in high magnification scopes with 10y min. parallax — and my Scope Specs Table won't be of any use.
I also don't know what "good optical quality" means to you....
For some "$500-good" is a lot to pay for an aluminum tube with some glass in it. For some, "$1500-good" is a starting point. So, here is a Scope Specs Table for higher magnifications, with around 100 scopes:
▪ All with 10y parallax (few with 15y)
▪ All with holdoff reticles and details about the reticle, incl. line thickness
▪ All with exposed turrets
▪ Sorted by FFP — SFP
▪ With approx. prices & warranty
▪ And a bunch of other specs that are important to some, and not to others.: FoV | Weight | Length | Max. elevation adjustment | MOA or MIL | Reticle details | etc.
Matthias
Attachment: Scope Specs Table 6-24x | 5-30x | 4-20x | 5-25x | etc.
View attachment -Scopes. With 6-20x Magnification. 167. 2024-12.pdf
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I’m in the same camp. I have both and was a FFP guy before all the hype. But with airguns if SFP scopes became extinct, I’d be screwed. I can make a SFP work in all situations. I can’t do that with FFP. I just spend too much time hunting at lower magnifications.
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Doing the holdover math with a SFP isn't difficult at all, you just have to use known magnifications. So if you hold over 2 mildots on 16x, when you switch to 8x you'll hold over 1 mildot and at 4x you hold over 1/2 mildot. Sometimes it's actually easier to do with SFP because on low power you can clearly see the dots. FFP seems super easy until the reticle gets too small to see the details.
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Synopsis of this thread…. and every other FFP vs. SFP:
The only advantage SFP has over FFP, is low magnification reticle visibility. Making it “better for close range”.
The only advantage FFP has over SFP, is consistency of reticle sub-tensions across all magnifications. Making it better for extended range shooting when using the reticle for hold-offs.
I have decent eyesight, and rarely use the low end of magnification…. and a lot of my shooting is at longer ranges where the reticle is used for wind-holds (turret dialed for elevation), hence my preference for FFP optics.
The only advantage SFP has over FFP, is low magnification reticle visibility. Making it “better for close range”.
The only advantage FFP has over SFP, is consistency of reticle sub-tensions across all magnifications. Making it better for extended range shooting when using the reticle for hold-offs.
I have decent eyesight, and rarely use the low end of magnification…. and a lot of my shooting is at longer ranges where the reticle is used for wind-holds (turret dialed for elevation), hence my preference for FFP optics.
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Same here. I leave my scope set at 8X always. My pesting is anywhere from 15 to 50 yards, and a 50 yard shot is unusual.
At 8X I get good field of view and good magnification of critter.
My range finder hangs on my neck. When I arrive at my sit I range a few items in my shooting lanes and mentally note them. When necessary I range a critter that might require a precise distance. I have a 3x5 card with DOPE from 10 to 50 yards and I dial appropriately.
Needless to say SFP is entirely accurate for my use. Really wish someone made a fixed 8X scope with 10yd to infinity side focus, and if it had only an illuminated red dot it would be super. It would be lighter and suit my needs perfectly.
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I do almost all of my shooting on either the highest or the lowest power. Highest power most of the time and lowest power sometimes when I’m hunting and want to be ready for a quick shot. For me, this doesn’t give any advantage to a FFP since at the lowest power you can’t see the mildots clearly.
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It's expensive but a March shorty 1-10 Dual/FP has all the advantages of both SFP and FFP and has daylight bright illume, so does their 1.5-15, and both focus sub 10Y. As with all scopes these aren't perfect either because at each ones highest magnification the IQ is slightly blurry at the edges, not bad, just noticeable. The build qaulity is amazing too.
But if a person wanted to be one and done these are it.
The other scope I prefer in FFP which is close to those is the Athlon Helos G2 2-12x42 DMR. There isn't much this scope won't do well with. Pretty much except for top performance in BR this scope excels and is loaded with modern features. I've won HFT comps with it mounted on my Pifle, hit small steel targets in fast succession with it on my ProX semi out to 125Y, and hit steel way out there from 200Y to 1143Y with it mounted on my long range AR.
The center dot is .3 mil thick/1" at 100Y, it also has a circle of death at 4 mils wide, so you can see it on 2x and has a tree for holdovers and holdoffs.
Even to this day, as other MPVO's have come out since it's debut 3 years ago, one of the top scope reviewers around called C-Does on youtube, still prefers it over the rest in it's class.
But if a person wanted to be one and done these are it.
The other scope I prefer in FFP which is close to those is the Athlon Helos G2 2-12x42 DMR. There isn't much this scope won't do well with. Pretty much except for top performance in BR this scope excels and is loaded with modern features. I've won HFT comps with it mounted on my Pifle, hit small steel targets in fast succession with it on my ProX semi out to 125Y, and hit steel way out there from 200Y to 1143Y with it mounted on my long range AR.
The center dot is .3 mil thick/1" at 100Y, it also has a circle of death at 4 mils wide, so you can see it on 2x and has a tree for holdovers and holdoffs.
Even to this day, as other MPVO's have come out since it's debut 3 years ago, one of the top scope reviewers around called C-Does on youtube, still prefers it over the rest in it's class.
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