Part of that is the offering today was not the same as it was back then. If you build it, they will buy it!
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Field Target is an arms race.
- Thread starter Franklink
- Start date
I agree that money doesn't have anything to do with your 3 items.
But money DOES have a profound influence on your initial qualifier of "assume all guns are more accurate than the shooter using them." Cheap guns have a higher incidence of pellets not going where the crosshairs are pointed. Sometimes that can be alleviated with reworking the barrel (recrown, lap, polish) and sometimes it can't. Either way, it takes at least a little bit of knowledge and know-how to get the barrel shooting as good as it should, or more know-how and more money for a re-barrel.
ie flyers are not compatible with winning field target matches. And in out of the box condition, the likelihood of getting a flyer producing barrel goes up as price comes down.
That's not to say that expensive guns are flyer free, just less chance of them. There's also the warranty situation....much easier to get Daystate or RAW to address a flyer problem, then the situation more typical of a budget brand. And that is when the budget option is the rebranding of gun the retailer contracted out the manufacturing of to the lowest bidder.
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So you're not wrong, but I do think you missed my point. What I am saying assumes that a shooter has done their due diligence with a gun (ya know, through practice) to determine whether or not a gun is up to the task....meaning it's more accurate than they are. Sometimes, that might include extra barrel prep work or even customization...sure...whatever. Not the point.
The point is, you need to build confidence in yourself and your equipment through purposeful practice. And to do that takes time. He who invests more time, is probably winning. That's the point. What that equipment is, matters less than the work you put in. Give me a sling shot, and 1000 rounds to practice with, and I'll hit the tin can more than the guy who had 5 rounds to practice with. Hopefully you're picking up what I'm putting down at this point.
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So how many people actually practice let's just say 2-4 days a week....go to a match nearly every weekend and also practice positionals on a regular basis. I would bet not many. The match experience alone is priceless and takes some time just to get comfortable with a routine. Practicing once or twice before a match will get you know where. Most new shooters have no idea what it takes to be successful at field target and I don't care what equipment there shooting. On the other hand give that veteran FT shooter a entry level gun and he knows how to get the most about of it! Take that to the bank.
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Practice "CAN" also decrease ones ability to shoot well in a competitive format 
Can only speak for myself here .. in that exhaustive / intense practice can create a neurotic mental state where one is so fixated on precision and expectation of how a shot is going to happen and the results there after.
When things Don't go as anticipated a lot of such practiced shooters start freaking out loosing there focus on the bigger picture of ONE SHOT AT A TIME !!! Dwelling on misses, worried about more misses self diagnosing in the moment can F you up mentally !!!
If you are a skilled shooter, you know what to do and how to best apply the skills you have learned .... Just sit down and do that !! For myself practice is shooting club matches once a month and very little if any practice outside that.
Morning sight in, confirm your numbers close / mid / far for POI to POA .... DONE !! Now go chill out and get your head into the right place, being relaxed & mind spin calm. When match starts take it One Shot At A Time applying what you know.
Don't fret the misses, don't think about whats coming or what those around you might be saying or acting out etc ...
This is not a smoke show statement either ... I've been there & done this for quite a few years now. 2 National Championships, 2 National GP titles & over a Dozen State championships in Rifle & Pistol to my credit taking this approach.
It is a BIGGER mental game being the operator of any said gun than the gun itself in most cases. A Good to Great gun is required without a doubt, But he/she who wields it is the one doing the work to extract it's best potential
Can only speak for myself here .. in that exhaustive / intense practice can create a neurotic mental state where one is so fixated on precision and expectation of how a shot is going to happen and the results there after.
When things Don't go as anticipated a lot of such practiced shooters start freaking out loosing there focus on the bigger picture of ONE SHOT AT A TIME !!! Dwelling on misses, worried about more misses self diagnosing in the moment can F you up mentally !!!
If you are a skilled shooter, you know what to do and how to best apply the skills you have learned .... Just sit down and do that !! For myself practice is shooting club matches once a month and very little if any practice outside that.
Morning sight in, confirm your numbers close / mid / far for POI to POA .... DONE !! Now go chill out and get your head into the right place, being relaxed & mind spin calm. When match starts take it One Shot At A Time applying what you know.
Don't fret the misses, don't think about whats coming or what those around you might be saying or acting out etc ...
This is not a smoke show statement either ... I've been there & done this for quite a few years now. 2 National Championships, 2 National GP titles & over a Dozen State championships in Rifle & Pistol to my credit taking this approach.
It is a BIGGER mental game being the operator of any said gun than the gun itself in most cases. A Good to Great gun is required without a doubt, But he/she who wields it is the one doing the work to extract it's best potential
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Agree with the general sentiment Scott. I think developing your own routinues and figuring out what works for you is extremely important. The mental game is far more important than the physical requirements FT places on an individual, no doubt. Building confidence in your shooting abilities and your equipment is just one piece of that puzzle. Back when I was just starting out, shooting one match per month wasn't enough. I spent hours on the range shooting and building mechanics and a shot routine. But it's different for everyone, and you do need to spend enough time trying these things to figure out what works and what doesn't.Practice "CAN" also decrease ones ability to shoot well in a competitive format
Can only speak for myself here .. in that exhaustive / intense practice can create a neurotic mental state where one is so fixated on precision and expectation of how a shot is going to happen and the results there after.
When things Don't go as anticipated a lot of such practiced shooters start freaking out loosing there focus on the bigger picture of ONE SHOT AT A TIME !!! Dwelling on misses, worried about more misses self diagnosing in the moment can F you up mentally !!!
If you are a skilled shooter, you know what to do and how to best apply the skills you have learned .... Just sit down and do that !! For myself practice is shooting club matches once a month and very little if any practice outside that.
Morning sight in, confirm your numbers close / mid / far for POI to POA .... DONE !! Now go chill out and get your head into the right place, being relaxed & mind spin calm. When match starts take it One Shot At A Time applying what you know.
Don't fret the misses, don't think about whats coming or what those around you might be saying or acting out etc ...
This is not a smoke show statement either ... I've been there & done this for quite a few years now. 2 National Championships, 2 National GP titles & over a Dozen State championships in Rifle & Pistol to my credit taking this approach.
It is a BIGGER mental game being the operator of any said gun than the gun itself in most cases. A Good to Great gun is required without a doubt, But he/she who wields it is the one doing the work to extract it's best potential
Here in Ohio, we are very fortunate to have matches every weekend (nearly anyway) from late April through October. You can get a ton of match experience in a fairly short time frame, which has helped build some very successful shooters. I find shooting those matches is much better practice for me than sitting on a range and shooting now...unless it's super windy out, then being on the range is useful. So practice for me, now, looks a lot different than it did a few years back. But it's different for everyone, and that's okay. Putting the time in, in whatever way is most effective for you is very important.
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I spoke with someone from the UK at the Worlds and he said they can typically hit two matches a day for Saturday and Sunday if desired. Lots of courses to be found there apparently and nearby at that. Pretty cool.
Locally where I am there are two a month, one is almost a four hour round trip and the other is about six hour round trip. Too bad driving doesn;t count as FT practice...
You don't have to shoot to practice, I lived in a spot where I could range and hold my point of aim out the window from 10 to 55 yards plus on apple trees when sitting on a bum bag. This was a tremendous help for me when I had it, it felt like practice when I was doing it, when I no longer had it I could see how important it was.
The current springer World Champion has a course in his back yard with lots of wind... I would imagine the pcp World Champion hits multiple matches a day over the weekend if he doesn't have his own course.
Winning a Nationals is tough, the Worlds is next level.
Locally where I am there are two a month, one is almost a four hour round trip and the other is about six hour round trip. Too bad driving doesn;t count as FT practice...
You don't have to shoot to practice, I lived in a spot where I could range and hold my point of aim out the window from 10 to 55 yards plus on apple trees when sitting on a bum bag. This was a tremendous help for me when I had it, it felt like practice when I was doing it, when I no longer had it I could see how important it was.
The current springer World Champion has a course in his back yard with lots of wind... I would imagine the pcp World Champion hits multiple matches a day over the weekend if he doesn't have his own course.
Winning a Nationals is tough, the Worlds is next level.
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There is something else to consider if one participates in the "Arms Race" and that's the risk and time loss when one switches to the next best thing they think they can afford. Even just upgrading your scope can set you back months and months of valued lessons learned with the prior equipment just to get back to where you were before the switch.
Upgrading your equipment doesn't always up your scores, and if it does, it doesn't happen overnight. keep that in mind, if upgrading, do it at the end of the season, so you have plenty of time to get back on track.
Upgrading your equipment doesn't always up your scores, and if it does, it doesn't happen overnight. keep that in mind, if upgrading, do it at the end of the season, so you have plenty of time to get back on track.
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When I sold my USFT and bought my Thomas FT it took a while to acclimate to the different feel in ways. It was months until I got "in sink" with it.
Scopes for whatever reason I can get used to quickly, probably because I've had so many.
The mental part - The hardest thing for me is taking the pressure off myself before and during a match! It's just a pellet gun match self, simmer down some, take a deep breath, relax man.
Wherever I end up in score I feel best when I've avoided the mental mistakes, guessed the wind well, and hit most of the positionals. Oddly getting 2-3 misses feels better than 1 miss because I almost got a perfect score. A "if only", and seems this has happened way too many times. The worst is when I miss a very doable shot.
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absolutely true and I can attest to this 20x over with both scope and gun Changes… The real improvement started when I stuck with one platform with the same scope, only then did the KZ scores go up. Another important thing was mentioned and that’s FT range and match access. Many Airgun deserts where 6 plus hours or more is required just to attend even a friendly match. The only way to fix this is for people to investing their time, hard earned treasure to create what can’t be found close by. Not cheap and not easy but very rewarding. Growing field target as a sport in the U.S. will require numerous passionate people to be involved in acquiring land and equipment and attracting mo PEOPLE to participate at all levels
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Yes it is an expensive hobby. That being said the only person I want to beat is myself. If I can do that I will usually be happy with the results that follow. Nice equipment is NICE equipment but it will always have more to do with factors like training, practice, experience and a mind set that will allow you to shoot well. Not to say a red ryder will be as good as a thomas or whatever; just to embrace what you have and learn it to the best of your abilities.
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We have to make this happen. It is kinda happening in Iowa. I have 26 people in a Facebook group. Most don’t even have air guns. But are interested. That took a couple months once I started. I am hopeful in a year we will at least have a fun shoot . It’s a build it they will come thing. And local gun clubs need people and dues and participation. But it takes a spark to get it going.
Another important thing was mentioned and that’s FT range and match access. Many Airgun deserts where 6 plus hours or more is required just to attend even a friendly match. The only way to fix this is for people to investing their time, hard earned treasure to create what can’t be found close by. Not cheap and not easy but very rewarding. Growing field target as a sport in the U.S. will require numerous passionate people to be involved in acquiring land and equipment and attracting mo PEOPLE to participate at all levels
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As I stated before, the 2024 WFTC is the most clear and well-documented evidence we have as to the fallacy that many of us fall into when it comes to equipment. Yes, especially me!
Most of the WFTC participants took on the event with what we all perceive to be the latest and greatest from the top brands; Thomas, Air Arms, Styer, March, Kahles, and Sightron. Most of us dressed in just as expensive custom-made shooting jackets, expensive footwear, and let's admit it, designer eyewear - only to find out the terrain, the environment, and the targets didn't quite care..
Personally, I've become a fan of those same brands I just mentioned, and am the principal culprit I've described. In the span of less than a year, I now own quite a few of the top PCPs and have procured the services of some of the world's top tuners in an attempt to erase or at least ease from my memory, my pitiful performance at the 2024 Sonoran GP.
At that event (my first ever competitive match) I showed up with my HW97K that I had "tuned" myself, adorned by a Jim Macarri stock Cam was kind enough to sell me and a brand new Sightron SIII. I had been encouraged to participate by my performance at my local club, and without any pretentiousness I was almost sure I'd do well. For those that care to know, or that simply weren't there... I came in almost dead last, not just in my class but overall, yes even dudes shooting out-of-the-box break barrels did better.
Though I had shot some great scores at home, and had great evidence my rifle was shooting well, the wheels fell off when literally, my expensive and well-constructed custom turret came right off in my hand... In my haste to address the lane and reset my setup, I overconfidently twisted my turret right off my "illuminated x-mas tree Field Target SIII", but not before imparting god knows how many clicks onto the scope. The truth of my situation came crashing down on me like a ton of bricks and my bravado to go shoot with the big dogs became a sorrowful whimper that those around me were subjected to and could now reluctantly witness the proverbial tail tucked firmly between my legs. All the advantages of the oversize knob and the "data" I had carefully inscribed on it in the span of many days and hours, were now useless to me. Not because there was anything wrong with any of those elements, but because I was woefully unprepared and inexperienced to deal with the situation. An Allen Wrench, 2 minutes, and a bit of common sense would have bought me far more points than the expensive wood and scope on my rifle, not to mention the fancy butthook that gave the impression I knew what I was doing. Later that day during lunch Cam and I joked how at least I was looking "good" in all the pictures that were now being projected on the overhead screens.
What I failed to identify then and even now, and as many of the seasoned shooters have mentioned; is the fact that there is no replacement for commitment. Either you commit to one gun and practice until you know its faults and its merits, and you practice to optimize or overcome both you and the rig, or you fall into the camp of chasing glory and having to spend even more time and sometimes money than you otherwise need to. As Wayne mentioned, I've spent many days working up the DOPE on my scope only to insist on changing it because it is too high or too low, or that I'd like the one sitting atop some other multi-thousand dollar gun in some other dusty gun case that I also insisted on putting away because it shoots and feels completely different, but whose scope and reticle might just give me a slight edge on my newest distraction.
Again as witnessed at the WFTC, The majority of the very best in their class shot with their old and trusted rigs with scopes they intimately know and that in some cases are no longer in production. I also witnessed our very best opt out of a very expensive scope in favor of a "lesser" scope because he has the experience/knowledge to ascertain and capitalize on the features and merits of such scope. In the same vane, our American Piston Rifle team brought home the wood with their TRUSTED boingers. I'd give my left you know what, to be able to do with my PCPs what Cam, Leo, Hughes, Brad, and some others can do with their rigs. All of the top shooters remained the top shooters and I do believe there were few to no surprises there.
Some of us spend more money than time, while some, know how to spend time with the things their money bought them. We'd all do well to learn the obvious lesson; spend as much as our wallet can bare acquiring the things that draw us, but understand the targets in our chosen discipline don't care how much we've spent, they'll taunt us until we have acquired the necessary skill..
Most of the WFTC participants took on the event with what we all perceive to be the latest and greatest from the top brands; Thomas, Air Arms, Styer, March, Kahles, and Sightron. Most of us dressed in just as expensive custom-made shooting jackets, expensive footwear, and let's admit it, designer eyewear - only to find out the terrain, the environment, and the targets didn't quite care..
Personally, I've become a fan of those same brands I just mentioned, and am the principal culprit I've described. In the span of less than a year, I now own quite a few of the top PCPs and have procured the services of some of the world's top tuners in an attempt to erase or at least ease from my memory, my pitiful performance at the 2024 Sonoran GP.
At that event (my first ever competitive match) I showed up with my HW97K that I had "tuned" myself, adorned by a Jim Macarri stock Cam was kind enough to sell me and a brand new Sightron SIII. I had been encouraged to participate by my performance at my local club, and without any pretentiousness I was almost sure I'd do well. For those that care to know, or that simply weren't there... I came in almost dead last, not just in my class but overall, yes even dudes shooting out-of-the-box break barrels did better.
Though I had shot some great scores at home, and had great evidence my rifle was shooting well, the wheels fell off when literally, my expensive and well-constructed custom turret came right off in my hand... In my haste to address the lane and reset my setup, I overconfidently twisted my turret right off my "illuminated x-mas tree Field Target SIII", but not before imparting god knows how many clicks onto the scope. The truth of my situation came crashing down on me like a ton of bricks and my bravado to go shoot with the big dogs became a sorrowful whimper that those around me were subjected to and could now reluctantly witness the proverbial tail tucked firmly between my legs. All the advantages of the oversize knob and the "data" I had carefully inscribed on it in the span of many days and hours, were now useless to me. Not because there was anything wrong with any of those elements, but because I was woefully unprepared and inexperienced to deal with the situation. An Allen Wrench, 2 minutes, and a bit of common sense would have bought me far more points than the expensive wood and scope on my rifle, not to mention the fancy butthook that gave the impression I knew what I was doing. Later that day during lunch Cam and I joked how at least I was looking "good" in all the pictures that were now being projected on the overhead screens.
What I failed to identify then and even now, and as many of the seasoned shooters have mentioned; is the fact that there is no replacement for commitment. Either you commit to one gun and practice until you know its faults and its merits, and you practice to optimize or overcome both you and the rig, or you fall into the camp of chasing glory and having to spend even more time and sometimes money than you otherwise need to. As Wayne mentioned, I've spent many days working up the DOPE on my scope only to insist on changing it because it is too high or too low, or that I'd like the one sitting atop some other multi-thousand dollar gun in some other dusty gun case that I also insisted on putting away because it shoots and feels completely different, but whose scope and reticle might just give me a slight edge on my newest distraction.
Again as witnessed at the WFTC, The majority of the very best in their class shot with their old and trusted rigs with scopes they intimately know and that in some cases are no longer in production. I also witnessed our very best opt out of a very expensive scope in favor of a "lesser" scope because he has the experience/knowledge to ascertain and capitalize on the features and merits of such scope. In the same vane, our American Piston Rifle team brought home the wood with their TRUSTED boingers. I'd give my left you know what, to be able to do with my PCPs what Cam, Leo, Hughes, Brad, and some others can do with their rigs. All of the top shooters remained the top shooters and I do believe there were few to no surprises there.
Some of us spend more money than time, while some, know how to spend time with the things their money bought them. We'd all do well to learn the obvious lesson; spend as much as our wallet can bare acquiring the things that draw us, but understand the targets in our chosen discipline don't care how much we've spent, they'll taunt us until we have acquired the necessary skill..
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yep…All true... And so much for the arms race.@Franklink - as your thread / OP if this entire thread was condensed down to its nuts and bolts how would it read?
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@Franklink - as your thread / OP if this entire thread was condensed down to its nuts and bolts how would it read?
Best ($$$$$$) equipment + practice = wins
Best ($$$$$$) equipment - practice = no wins
Sub par ($) equipment + practice = no wins
Sub par ($) equipment - practice = no wins
"Best equipment" to me is scopes that range by focus well, guns that produce consistent shot strings and hold zero FOREVER, and barrels that don't throw flyers.
"Sub par" equipment is scopes that DONT range by focus well, guns that DONT produce consistent shot strings NOR hold zero, and barrels that DO throw flyers.
And the reality is that the relationship between spending money and the "best equipment" factor is mostly linear. Some of us find success with rigs that are a happy medium between performance and price, but even those are usually going to fall into what 95% of people in "the shooting sports" are going to deem the "expensive" category. $1500-2000 was floated as a winnable budget rig a couple times in here. Yep, 2k is lower than 10k, but tell your firearm buddies that you spent 2k on an airgun/scope and most of them are not going to share your enthusiasm about it being so "cheap." And a 2k field target rig is going to shoot the pants off of a $500 field target rig most of the time (unless somebody who really knows what they're doing silk pursed that sows ear and then spent a bunch of time practicing with it).
It's obviously very insulting for some to be hear someone point out that their equipment plays a huge role in their field target success. To them I would say, buy a scope/gun that costs 25%, 50%, 75% less than what you're currently using, and see if your scores don't go down.
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You left out age and health as these bring significant performance curves
and of course access to matches with a variety of environmental conditions
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Mostly can't buy your way out of those deficits. I'd prefer vision even a little closer to 20/20, but can't even buy that option, for any amount of money.
Age, nope, we get what we have. No changing that.
I'm bout 10lbs overweight right now, I COULD do something about that, and it would help on the positional shots and not feeling all squeezed up when I've got elbows on my knees.
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Airgunning is expensive. I couldn't have done it just a few years ago. It was painful to buy a carbon fiber tank this week, but it'll make shooting easier in the long run.
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