• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

Field Target is an arms race.

Well I guess “RUN WHAT YA BRUNG!,” I bought one of Mike’s guns and the only excuse I have is myself… but this is a one time purchase that I will use in two different disciplines🤙, now it’s practice, practice, practice. To me this is sound logic? Time will tell “PAY ME NOW OR PAY ME LATER” it’s always cheaper now!
 
Well I guess “RUN WHAT YA BRUNG!,” I bought one of Mike’s guns and the only excuse I have is myself… but this is a one time purchase that I will use in two different disciplines🤙, now it’s practice, practice, practice. To me this is sound logic? Time will tell “PAY ME NOW OR PAY ME LATER” it’s always cheaper now!
That is the most aggravating thing about owning one of Mr. Niksch's rifles, becoming the marksman worthy to shoot the damn thing.

My Thomas BR is fully capable of winning championships until I pick it up.
 
I think i will start shooting targets on the air gun lane at the range . (yes we have one, almost never used ) but last spring i was shooting that lane (30 yards only) and leaving the targets up . heard lot of talk , and some interest but only weak bb gun bought for small children . Maybe this spring i will go on weekend steel shoots with my $139 daisy 853 and shoot benchrest style maybe drum up some interest ? might even invest in a few more 853's so several people can shoot ?

But this question still boils down to (at least in my area )" I can buy two 10/22's for the same price ."
 
Last edited:
That is the most aggravating thing about owning one of Mr. Niksch's rifles, becoming the marksman worthy to shoot the damn thing.

My Thomas BR is fully capable of winning championships until I pick it up.
At least that can be fixed.
 
It great masses of people wanted to compete with low level equipment....there would be nothing that could possibly stop them.

Certainly nothing stopping you from putting your ideas into action.

Great masses of people don't want to compete with low level equipment. They don't want to compete at all. They just want to have some fun shooting what they can afford. That's why they aren't interested in FT matches.

There is a BUNCH of interest in shooting all types of weapons. There are organized events for the average shooter and clubs that offer family oriented activities. There are at least 3 archery clubs that meet regularly and have fun shoots. The same with cars, 4x4, motorcycles, running, hiking, birdwatching, astronomy... None are competitions, all are well attended and all promote their respective sports brilliantly.

Compare and contrast this with airgun events. If you honestly don't see a disparity then I suppose there isn't one.
 
I have no interest in pretend competitions with a bunch of non competitive people....because I'm a competitor. I seek other competitive people.

I also have no interest in putting together a place for non competitive people to have fun if they don't have enough interest in something to do it for themselves.

Have at it Bob. Sounds like you're the man for the job. 😀
 
Didn’t Phil Hepler win Hunter PCP Nationals with a Marauder and a UTG 4-16 JUST a few years ago?

Jack Harris was winning World Championships (and CLEANING the course at the PAC) with an Air Arms EV2 and a Nikko Stirling Diamond. Fantastic gear but far from a “$4,000 rifle and $3,000 scope”.

You can find EXCELLENT equipment that you can absolutely be competitive with in the used market for great prices.

When I started Airgunning back in 2014 all of this was true. My first match there were Steyers, EV2s, Thomas’s…There have ALWAYS been guys shooting the high end cutting edge equipment. Sometimes those were the shooters that won matches and sometimes those shooters didn’t win.

If folks spent an hour shooting for each hour they spent on AGN they probably wouldn’t feel like it’s such an Arms Race.
 
At least that can be fixed.
Last winter, at 20 yards indoors shooting a 20 yard benchrest 0.177 target, twice out of more than 100 targets I was one shot from 250 - 25X.

So when it came time to schedule my hernia operation I choose 12 -23 which gives me four weeks of recovery to individually size, weigh, and spin 1000 pellets and gain enough structural integrity to lift and move my rest.

By the end of March I intend to have multiple 250-25X cards.

You, Mr. Piatt, Mr. Beyerle and that damn rifle have driven me mental.
 
The lowrider clubs, offroaders, motorcycle clubs and rally driving clubs are going strong. Businesses support them. The events are family oriented. Lots of new people get involved.

Yeah, nobody wants to watch slow cars race. That's why it's NOT A RACE.

When "racing" isn't the objective the pool of interest grows exponentially. Racing, like FT is a specialized game for a specific type of person with the resources to participate. That is why the pool of interest is fairly limited.
I disagree for several more practical reasons.
Limited facilities or dedicated shooting clubs are available that are willing to promote or even allow airgun related activities. Time and space conflicts prevail. Thus coordinating and scheduling Airgun activities in even a casual way is extremely difficult unless someone spearheads an Airgun program. CMP, civilian marksmanship programs are few and far between. Next up is the benevolent people who lease or acquire land or allow their land to be used to start Airgun related programs. Lots of these things I’ve mentioned also require community resources and zoning support and have other legal considerations. Also note that if people have to travel very far… they ain’t coming very often.
This is a multi faceted issue that needs multiple ways and numerous resources to “grow the sport of airguns” and thus grow field target. Yes community shoots are helpful as are active Airgun shooters being positive ambassadors who lobby for the sport.
 
I disagree for several more practical reasons.
Limited facilities or dedicated shooting clubs are available that are willing to promote or even allow airgun related activities. Time and space conflicts prevail. Thus coordinating and scheduling Airgun activities in even a casual way is extremely difficult unless someone spearheads an Airgun program. CMP, civilian marksmanship programs are few and far between. Next up is the benevolent people who lease or acquire land or allow their land to be used to start Airgun related programs. Lots of these things I’ve mentioned also require community resources and zoning support and have other legal considerations. Also note that if people have to travel very far… they ain’t coming very often.
This is a multi faceted issue that needs multiple ways and numerous resources to “grow the sport of airguns” and thus grow field target. Yes community shoots are helpful as are active Airgun shooters being positive ambassadors who lobby for the sport.

You make a lot of good points. I'm coming from a completely different environment where almost none of those problems exist.

I suppose in a much more populated area with limited space it would be more difficult. We have a deluxe public range that covers several hundred acres and about 26m acres of public land in every direction. Finding shooters and a place to shoot is no problem here. I suppose I'm unaware of the challenges in other areas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavedweller
Shooting sports are *always* an arms race - kinda. It turns out that a rookie with all the best gear will still end up at the bottom of the page. If you have the funds, by all means, go for the gold. On the other hand, there are great shooters out there, that will kick your butt 10/10 times. In my experience the "arms race" only matters when you're in the top few percent. Then, and only then, will superior equipment truly play a factor. Hot dog gear buys a few percent difference. If you're getting hammered by someone with top notch gear, and they're beating you by 50% - it's not the gear. If you're in the top 10% in a fiercely contested match, and you lose by a few percent - maybe. But that top dog isn't beating most people because of gear - he's got top gear to beat the other top competitors. If you're middle of the page, it's not your gear that's holding you back - work harder.

GsT (You can buy better gear, but you can't buy skill)
ding ding ding... When I got into service rifle seriously in my late teens through twenties, I started with off the shelf rifle that I knew would hold me back. I had a mentor that was decent but never would or could win a real match(top of mid pack camp perry good for many years), he said he would tell me when it was time to put money into my service rifle, took about two years before he said it will make a difference now. Get ready to pay when the time comes, besides the gas mechanism, legal bedding and such, I had to go through two krieger barrels in short order since the first one just didn't agree and the rifle was barely any better. That with expert in the process doing the work, not some wannabe. very expensive. In the end it made a noticeable difference but I had to agree with my mentor it would have been a waste my first year.
 
You make a lot of good points. I'm coming from a completely different environment where almost none of those problems exist.

I suppose in a much more populated area with limited space it would be more difficult. We have a deluxe public range that covers several hundred acres and about 26m acres of public land in every direction. Finding shooters and a place to shoot is no problem here. I suppose I'm unaware of the challenges in other areas.
It's definitely different in other places. Point out a public range around here and most shooters will drive the long way around it. Too many horror stories.
 
It's definitely different in other places. Point out a public range around here and most shooters will drive the long way around it. Too many horror stories.

Ours is sweet. It's the largest of 3 developed public ranges in a 60 mile radius. Most of the time you've got the place all to yourself.

They have 5-6 nice 50 yard lanes about 50 yards wide. They have a 6 foot berm of dirt between them. So there is always a protected area to park and shoot in.

 
  • Like
Reactions: dgeesaman
The question people should be trying to answer is why aren't inexpensive rifles and scopes exciting to most people?
To quote Townsend Whelan: "Only accurate rifles are interesting". It is true for me unless I am plinking at pop cans at 20 yards with my Gamo Nitro piston.

This is a key FT requirement that is being ignored in this thread. The fact of the matter is that you will not score well at all with a rifle that is not accurate.
Sure, you will occasionally find an inexpensive rifle that shoots well while another 50 copies of the model will not. If you are lucky to find one, you have found inexpensive accuracy. The rest of us have to pay more for higher quality rifles to find accuracy. (or buy a handful of Barrels/Liners to cull through and select the best; or pay someone to do it for you)

To be highly competitive in FT you have to (at a minimum) a rifle that can shoot 3/8" groups at 15 yards, and sub 3/4" groups at 50 yards. The tighter the groups, the easier it is to score well. - The more you spend, the easier it is to get small groups (that indicate better accuracy).
You can have lots of fun shooting FT without such a rifle by competing with yourself. (I see an Avenge-X in my future to see how it does)

But you will never learn when a miss is your fault vs. the rifles fault if it can't meet the above levels of accuracy.
This is where your marksmanship will improve with practice because every miss will be because YOU did something wrong - figure it out!

If your rifle is not this accurate out of the box, tuning is required to make it so. Some choose to take a shortcut and spend $$$ to send their rifle to someone else to accurize / tune it. Some spend $$$ to buy a rifle that is accurate from the box (EX: Thomas).

We HAVE to set realistic expectations for new shooters to FT. If they do better - Bully for them! If they don't, they aren't embarrassed, Hey, FT is not an easy game - simple, but not easy.

I find the gun vs. shooter debate is a tedious misdirection play by those with a excellent rifle wanting to claim all the credit for scoring well for themselves and not the rifle. Both are required to score highly - an accurate rifle and good marksmanship. Having the $$$ to buy the best rifles is a shortcut to try to climb the leader board as Cavedweller describes. It is undoubtedly easier to shoot a top rifle well than a cheaper (read: less accurate) rifle well. This is the reason people who have proven their skills by shooting a Marauder VERY well move to a better rifle - It is EASIER to do well. (and you have higher confidence in your equipment)

I find those doing well with a "lesser" rifle to be truly admirable. Leave the Thomas at home and show us you can shoot a Sub $1000 rifle to a podium finish - Now THAT is impressive and shows you can do the work. Make no mistake - a poor marksman will not podium just because he has a Thomas and I'm not discounting the skill of Thomas shooters.

As to getting new shooters exposed to FT - Set out Targets that can be shot by .22 rifles (20-50 yards) post the target distances and have an open day. (Most non-specialized family type rifles are sold in .22) Have regulars there to explain the FT game and keep it fun and flexible.
 
Ours is sweet. It's the largest of 3 developed public ranges in a 60 mile radius. Most of the time you've got the place all to yourself.

They have 5-6 nice 50 yard lanes about 50 yards wide. They have a 6 foot berm of dirt between them. So there is always a protected area to park and shoot in.

IMG_4459.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bedrock Bob
Most people's trouble is just patience. Everybody wants their stuff today. At the rate people get rid of impulsive purchases...there is no good reason to buy any piece of equipment new at full price...unless you simply can't find it used.

Go to matches or places that people shoot and you are bound to run into someone looking to part with something expensive for cheap. Most people are too lazy to post stuff in classifieds. They would rather blow something out today than wait a week for double the money.

If you're in a hurry for anything....it's gonna cost you.

Mike
Especially if you are in a hurry for success.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thomasair