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Field Target is an arms race.

The method I use doesn't require a scope height or a BC calculation...so it doesn't make any difference what those 2 variables are or how they are obtained. Get your velocity plus or minus 5 fps...zero you gun at the apex....get your actual clicks needed for 10 and 55y. That's it.

Chairgun will fill in the rest
Yep, now the only thing that is missing is; Parallax Wheel data, Scope shift data, gun/reg data, rifle fitment, altitude data, incline/decline data, projectile performance.. more than plenty of variables to geek out over and confuse the sh8t of ones head. Or as mentioned before, shoot more and let it become second nature.

The thing I noticed, the boys and girls from overseas don't even have fancy tapes, fancy turrets on theirs scopes. They just range and seem to know the clicks by heart.. They got so many clubs, and shoot so much, it is second nature to them. They laughed at the wind that had us all concerned and making all sorts of calculations..
 
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Guns in the $750-1500 range can be competitive, as can scopes in the $300-600 range.

If there was enough interest I suppose a price capped class, but that concept has a whole host of issues and workarounds that guys would do. Like re-barelling a cheap gun with a good barrel. So no, I don't think a "budget" class is a great idea.

Hunter class's origins were a good idea, as can be seen by it currently being the most populated class. But the race is on in Hunter now too.

Can't say that I have a solution. Many don't even see it as a problem that needs a solution. It's just the reality of field target. Simply part of the game.
The solution would be like like the IROC races.

Have identical setup guns and now it is the Indian and not the arrow.


Only modified for fit / ergos
Just like those old IROC races.
 
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The solution would be like like the IROC races.

Have identical setup guns and now it is the Indian and not the arrow.


Only modified for fit / ergos
Just like those old IROC races.
"
HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal
before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter
than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was
stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the
211th, 212th, and 213 th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing
vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General. ...

...It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very
hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't
think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his
intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his
ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a
government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would
send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair
advantage of their brains.
...
 
"
HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal
before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter
than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was
stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the
211th, 212th, and 213 th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing
vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General. ...

...It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very
hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't
think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his
intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his
ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a
government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would
send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair
advantage of their brains.
...
THIS, is the first time government sponsored mind control has ever been suggested for improving FT! 🤪

The IROC comparison, not so much...
 
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The solution would be like like the IROC races.

Have identical setup guns and now it is the Indian and not the arrow.


Only modified for fit / ergos
Just like those old IROC races.
I used to race a spec class for 2 strokes and found every grey area and studied how they teched and pushed the limits on "cheating" it's not a restriction, it's a challenge. We will find a way 😁 it's not an expense if you can machine it yourself?
 
Yep I said it, and not for the first time.

Some sure seem to get heated up about that statement. Others are pragmatic enough to accept reality.

When guys are running "bb guns" that cost north of $8-10k, there's not much of an argument against it being an arms race.

When I say "arms race" I'm talking about the perpetual creep that results in ever bigger side wheels, more expensive scopes and guns, more complicated bipods, and generally more gadgetry for the classes where that's allowed, etc.

The arms race is a result of a combination of factors. First of those is that in any competition that is similarly equipment-dependent, you'll see the same thing. Competitors will spend big to acquire what they feel is the most competitive equipment. Another is the demographic....field target competitors are primarily a collection of well-to-do geezers, and many of those are retired, with the time and money to be silly about how they spend that time and money. Another is psychology...if I just buy THAT gun or THAT scope then I'll be at the top in future matches. In that sense, the arms race is as much a personal battle as it is a side-quest competition with the rest of the field. Furthermore, and another part of the psychology, is that it's simply fun to try out new guns and scopes. And who's going to buy a lower quality gun or scope than what they already have? So of course that feeds into the process of continually spending more and more and the average price of a rig in any given ft competition creeping up and up and up over the years. In that sense, some of the arms race is the over-used adage of, "you get what you pay for."

All of that is fine and dandy, and it's simply the reality of the field target game.

The negative aspect of the arms race is those rare times when a newcomer is at their first match and we have to tell them the price of the borrowed rig they're fondling. It's hard for them to envision themselves being part of the collection of field target competitors since they haven't mentally worked their way up to the great financial heights incrementally like most of us have. I say that from personal experience when I was new, and from the exact same facial expression I see when I introduce someone to field target.

As for the inevitable, "it's the indian, not the arrow" straw man logic rebuttals that are sure to come.....There is very certainly a price threshold that must be crossed to get into "competitive" territory. Yeah yeah, "so and so won with an entry level _______________ back in 20XX." Those cases are rare, and speak much to the skill of that individual competitor. In the main example I see used, that guy is now shooting a $3-4K scope/gun combo, NOT the entry level rig that he did well with that year. For most of us mere mortals, quality equipment ($$$) must be invested in if a guy has any intentions of being competitive, then of course comes practice to complete the rest of the winning equation. Hence my earlier statement about how equipment-dependent field target is.

And there you have the arms race.

(And with that, let the online battle commence).
Here is an entry level HFT rig i have put together for a new shooter. Basically he's getting everything used at %50 off retail....
Maruader .177 FT tune and stock. Basic Hawke 4-16, Basic rings, Single shot loader from CARM. He will need a tote.
Nothing on this set up is "over the top" and you could certainly go cheaper, but this is a rig that will outshoot him for a few years that he can also be proud of.

IMG_9302.jpeg

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Here is an entry level HFT rig i have put together for a new shooter. Basically he's getting everything used at %50 off retail....
Maruader .177 FT tune and stock. Basic Hawke 4-16, Basic rings, Single shot loader from CARM. He will need a tote.
Nothing on this set up is "over the top" and you could certainly go cheaper, but this is a rig that will outshoot him for a few years that he can also be proud of.

View attachment 550787
View attachment 550785View attachment 550786
Nice job putting that together Rudi! Now after the first shoot the competitor will be looking for a bunch of BOC (bolt on crap) to make it much better!😂
 
Here is an entry level HFT rig i have put together for a new shooter. Basically he's getting everything used at %50 off retail....
Maruader .177 FT tune and stock. Basic Hawke 4-16, Basic rings, Single shot loader from CARM. He will need a tote.
Nothing on this set up is "over the top" and you could certainly go cheaper, but this is a rig that will outshoot him for a few years that he can also be proud of.

View attachment 550787
View attachment 550785View attachment 550786


Please expound on your statement that "this is a rig that will outshoot him for a few years."
 
Please expound on your statement that "this is a rig that will outshoot him for a few years."
Read that as: The rifles accuracy potential will be ahead of the shooters skill until developed with a few years experience under his belt :unsure:
 
Part of what lead up to me deciding to get this discussion rolling was that I was asked for airgun recommendations from two different people in the weeks leading up to Christmas.

One of them asked me for himself. I had him over to my backyard to try some out. I had initially told him prices go from mild to wild, and you generally "get what you pay for." I let him shoot a good representation of guns, from rigs around $500 on the bottom end, all the way up to north of $2500. I was too embarrassed to crack out the $2500 gun and the nearly $1000 scope and the sidewheel and the riser and the moderator, etc, that would have gotten us into the 4k realm. So he didn't shoot that one. Nor did I admit that I own one that expensive. Ultimately, from his responses and reactions, he wanted to go the buy once cry once route. Which really surprised me.

The other request was a cousins wife. She asked for a recommendation for a gun for her husband (my cousin). This one was a bit more complicated as I couldn't have him over to feel out the price range she was looking to spend. I recommended a gun in the $500-600 range. And was embarrassed to even go that high.

In both situations I felt sheepish about sharing with these two individuals the prices for high end airguns.

I think for many of the field target crowd, the sticker shock wore off multiple thousands of dollars ago. To the point that the ft crowd is in la la land when it comes to trying to see this from a non field target persons perspective.

The prices of airguns, specifically the bulk of what we see guys running at matches, are just plain nuts to the other 99.999% of the population not involved in ft. The equipment race does that to us. It's an atypical journey to jump straight to the 4k airgun. Most of us worked our way up to the hard stuff, like any self-respecting addict would. And that slow burn into the big money territory is the equipment race.

The defensiveness, and in some of the response, outright denial, is extremely interesting to me.

The BOG chairman stated at one point in this discussion that my "comments don't help." Jeff, I'm not sure what you're referring to it not helping. Sticking our heads in the sand about what airguns cost for field target is your alternative? Or the one rule of field target is that we don't talk about how much field target costs? Also for Jeff, yeah, I do get bored and like to discuss airguns and field target, and that's why I started this discussion. I guess I shot a split on understanding what the purpose of forums is.

Anyway, thanks all for contributing. It has been a lively and enlightening conversation.
my wife and i have a saying... "tell the truth and tell it quickly" we decided a long time ago that it is NOT our responsibility to monitor or protect someone else's feelings around money; how they spend theirs or we spend ours.
That said... lots of folks will spend north of 5K to cruise around on a ship overeating and getting sunburned. We all have differing priorities and thats ok.
 
my wife and i have a saying... "tell the truth and tell it quickly" we decided a long time ago that it is NOT our responsibility to monitor or protect someone else's feelings around money; how they spend theirs or we spend ours.
That said... lots of folks will spend north of 5K to cruise around on a ship overeating and getting sunburned. We all have differing priorities and thats ok.
To paraphrase this thread with above quote : Think THIS SHIP has sailed 🚣‍♂️
 
And then what happens in a few years when the accuracy potential of this particular rig is no longer ahead of the shooters skill? 😉
Said shooter FINALLY crack open a beer and celebrates being proficient with there Air Rifle ... perhaps even a couple 🤟🤟
If they stick it out that long .. they will be already on the dark side and just like most of us !!! May I have another please ... Lol
 
The crazy part of doing a Spec race kind of thing is if you got ten Marauders there would be some that shoot better than others and likely one (possibly two) that shoot best.

They would not be 'equal' by any stretch of the imagination even though they would appear to be equal from the name and number on the box.

Same would apply for ten of the same high end competition rifles, some will shoot better than others, and one will likely be the best, the difference between them would be less than the non-competition specific rifles.

I really like the idea of getting the top shooters set up with equally performing rifles and see how it plays. I get a similar enjoyment out of the thought experiment of shooting a 36T course indoors, all environmental conditions have been eliminated and it's just you, your rifle and the target, no wind.
 
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The lowest $$$ scope you're listing is $920.

That's a grand Rudy.

Taking a gander at the average income in the US, arguably one of the more wealthy countries in the world (of course, after the gubment takes their slice) and we're talking about a substantial chunk of change for the average joe to be able to afford even the cheapest scope you're mentioning.

Not long ago, a $920 was a mortgage payment, and might still be in certain parts of the country.

We covered earlier that there's a basic performance level that must be achieved before a guy can be competitive. That goes for the scope and the gun. Mentions of $400 guns were made, WITH LW rebarells mentioned by one guy, and another guy mentioning tuning and tweaking. That's arms race, either buying a better barrel and/or paying people to tune the gun to make it competitive. Great if a guy can make those improvements themselves, but they're still improving their equipment to try to get to a minimal performance standard.

A Nissan Versa can be driven in a race, but it sure isn't going to win that race if going up against a Formula One race car. And that's gonna be the outcome, regardless of how good of a driver the dude in the Versa thinks they are.
its all relative to what someone can afford... AND wants to spend.
 
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And then what happens in a few years when the accuracy potential of this particular rig is no longer ahead of the shooters skill? 😉
Being as he’s got 2 kids under 5, I imagine he will be good with it beyond when his skills match up with the rifle
 
Its my belief all this doesn’t really matter. There is a good bit of luck involved in ft. I mean if every time you pull the trigger a gust of wind kicks up you are not going to have a good day!
Unless someone is completely oblivious....they are not going to hold in the middle and hope for no wind. The majority of the game is about reading the wind.

Mike