Karma Figment of anyone else’s imagination??

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Trucker3573 said:
👍. Would have to go used. Doesn’t quite check the price point box. For that kind of money I would grab another AGT Vulcan 3 compact. Great guns.
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Nothing against RTI as they perform really well & are equally well built but.. If I bought another I would have to use bat tape or something on upper chassis rails above top of grip. My P3 would actually draw blood after all day shooting. This is a known thing that not many talk about. My dream grip is the factory Uragan grip.Perfect.....
 
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Motorhead said:
I've heard threw a VERY reliable source that KARMA's Red Panda as well Another manufacturer and others are in a FIGHT with FX over a recently granted patent on over barrel air reservoirs / plenums.
These manufactures outside FX have received attorney issued Cease & Desist orders in selling any such airguns utilizing said design traits.

Yea .. this news is going to get out on a bigger bill board soon enough if it really is true and happening.

So this is Second Party info FWIW :oops:
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If that's true FX just came on my NEVER list. There were airguns out well before FX with an over barrel air reservoir. Ridiculous.

Not quite sure what it has to do with a Red Panda though as there isn't a over airtube reservior.
 
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Jaxjax said:
Nothing against RTI as they perform really well & are equally well built but.. If I bought another I would have to use bat tape or something on upper chassis rails above top of grip. My P3 would actually draw blood after all day shooting. This is a known thing that not many talk about. My dream grip is the factory Uragan grip.Perfect.....
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Hadn’t heard that. If AEA would build the .25 challenger pro with ext adj reg and hammer spring like the latest long barrel versions have I’d buy one.
 
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Trucker3573 said:
Actually they may be able to work something out. Maybe they can jack up the price of the panda and agree to pay FX a royalty for every gun sold 🤷‍♂️.
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Actually I think they would all wind up paying Snowpeak. Wouldn’t that be irony at its finest. The ultimate copiers wind up getting paid because someone finally copied one of their things.
 
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So what exactly does the patent cover?

You can get the info on any patent relatively easily. My guess is it isn't about the plenum surrounding the barrel. That may be the way it was explained by the rumor mill but the actual elements of the patent infringement case may be quite different.

I wouldn't make any assumptions about a rumored lawsuit unless I knew the details of that lawsuit. There may certainly be a patent infringement but I'll bet it isn't as simple as a plenum over the barrel. It's probably about some other proprietary engineering related to the over barrel plenum.
 
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MrP said:
Airforce guns tick that box :)
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Do they though??

Sure the "Base" price on Some of them are under that 1K mark, BUT by the time you get one to shoot even close to MOAconsistently you are well over that 1K price.

I know this post will piss off the loyal AF owners, I get it, but even you guys have to admit the statement is true
 
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csdilligaf said:
I read through the FX patents. They seem to want to cover anything and everything. At this point they may be able to go after Lewis and Clark for the rifle they took on the expedition.
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They would probably win the case if Lewis and Clark don't have the funding to fight them in court.

I think these lawsuits are more about straining the competitions assets when they are vulnerable. Small competitors are easy to pick off with timely litigation. If you can tie them up in court a few months they can't balance their quarterly statements.

All you need is a lawyer and some papers claiming infringement. The competitor must dance in court and risk any future sales of the product pending the outcome. Suddenly their business plan is on the courts timeline. Unless they have the funds to fight and win they are screwed.

In a declining market the big fish eat the little fish. It's probably a winning business strategy in our brave new world.
 
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Not sure if FX prceded this guy... looks like he could be in trouble...

Bate reservoir over barrel from the late 1700's. To add to the FX info, Ben Taylor of Theoben fame told me at one point that he designed the rifling impressed from the outside for Frederick and was never really compensated for it. On that same subject, my Dad's Daisy 880 has the rifling impressed from the outside and I'm pretty sure it's older than any FX...

Anyway... good luck to Karma...

Bob
 
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Dairyboy said:
Artemis M30. Looks like 2018 already


Also Ace Titan airguns had them and they were even earlier.

More shooting with the Ace Titan 357 cal- - Airguns & Guns Forum

More shooting with the Ace Titan 357 cal-, Air guns, Airgun Forum
www.gatewaytoairguns.org
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That’s it. I believe that sketchy hard to contact importer of Snowpeak stuff here in the States was slated to get some. Then I saw them on Krales site. The good news is there was a reservoir over barrel in the 1700’s. So the chinamen did copy it so all is right with the world again.
 
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Headshots said:
I think something like this happened on a FX designed HS adjuster that was copied also
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Is this the case where someone(large competitor) used a rotating disk with different size holes in it to change the transfer port size? FX supposedly sued over it but I have not been able to find it so will not name the competitor. My business is making prototype parts for medical industry that have patents on them. I have friends with patents and the one with the most money for lawyers wins.
 
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All of this reminds me of the time I had a 10+ page review going of a gun that just disappeared one day. Literally GONE. No record of it, no hits on searches, G.O.N.E.

I reached out to Michael and was told it was pulled because of FX lawyers saying the hammer spring tension adjustment design was too similar. I told him if I went through those 10-12 pages of reviews and doctored every image or reference to the hammer spring tension adjustment if the review could be out back up. Michael is a good guy and actually helped me go through and make it all lawsuit kosher.

Ridiculous.

Some are quick to lawyer up, FX is the fastest.

As to whoever has the deepest pockets winning when lawyers are involved, I witnessed a completely different airgun industry situation play out exactly in that fashion. The "winner" of the case was the one able and willing to continue paying the lawyer fees.
 
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csdilligaf said:
Is this the case where someone(large competitor) used a rotating disk with different size holes in it to change the transfer port size? FX supposedly sued over it but I have not been able to find it so will not name the competitor. My business is making prototype parts for medical industry that have patents on them. I have friends with patents and the one with the most money for lawyers wins.
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I found this . Probably the HS micro adjuster on the Maverick/ Wildcats .
1729032596965.png
 
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