Finally! A proper Bulldog review

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"ajshoots"Slugging the barrel of my bulldog came out .357. The Noslers shoot good and JSB 81gr pellets shoot awesome. The JSB's I have measure right at to slightly under .357 at the head. I got some slugs to test that were .356 and they shot horrible due to being undersized for my barrel. The fellow who cast the slugs has an older Bulldog and it slugged at .356 and his slugs shot awesome out of his gun. In mine, I literally had groups of about 6" at 30 yards.

My gun gets 5 very good consistent shots whether I use pellets or Noslers. It surely isn't a 10 shot gun unless you don't want to hit your target. If I refill every 5 shots, the JSB'S shoot really good and the Noslers are good, just not as good as the JSB.

www.airgunnation.com/topic/my-bulldog-thus-far
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That's good info that there are two different versions out there. I bet a lot of people were puzzled why the noslers didn't perform for them like they did in the reviews because they got a .356 version. 

It seems like a gun that could benefit from a decent tuner or even a regulator. I'd trade some power at the top end for ten usable shots. Even hunters like to practice occasionally. I guess you could use it tethered at the range or maybe the Marauder bottle mods could be made to fit.

 
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I don't believe there were 2 different versions, just tolerance in the barrels. Most of the guys that are casting are slugging their barrels to get the needed slug size. No 2 barrels are alike. Because of unique bore difference, it is possible that even 2 barrels that slug at .357 might not both shoot good with .357 sized slugs/ bullets. It can be tricky finding the right size.

I had a .25 caliber barrel that slugged at .250" and a touch heavy at that. I expected it would need .250" or larger slugs, but it actually shot .249" the best.

The Bulldog is easy to tune. It could be turned down to gain shot count, but for me, I wanted to be around 150fpe with no regard for shot count. I actually think a 20fps spread over 5 shots at 150fpe isn't all too bad for a bullpup that cost so little.

I haven't had the time to try it yet, but I would like to convert mine over to .257 one of these days.
 
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Well Much to my surprise Chip from Crosman said they DO NOT RELEASE BARREL Land and Groove Information which I think is VERY Strange since it is an easily measurable value from any off the shelf gun! I told him that we were trying to determine what the best cast bullet would be for shooters of the gun and that I am a Lee Precision dealer interested in providing molds to shooters of the Bulldog. I'll update again if Crosman provides the information.

Does anyone have the Crosman Part number for the Bulldog barrel? I will order one if I can get the number and measure it myself. I suspect the problem here is because Crosman and Nosler appear to have worked together on development so they don't want you to shoot anything but Nosler through this gun. (My opinion only at this point).

Thurmond
 
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"T3PRanch"Well Much to my surprise Chip from Crosman said they DO NOT RELEASE BARREL Land and Groove Information which I think is VERY Strange since it is an easily measurable value from any off the shelf gun! I told him that we were trying to determine what the best cast bullet would be for shooters of the gun and that I am a Lee Precision dealer interested in providing molds to shooters of the Bulldog. I'll update again if Crosman provides the information.

Does anyone have the Crosman Part number for the Bulldog barrel? I will order one if I can get the number and measure it myself. I suspect the problem here is because Crosman and Nosler appear to have worked together on development so they don't want you to shoot anything but Nosler through this gun. (My opinion only at this point).

Thurmond
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It is strange until you consider the info that tight tolerances are not adhered to. Their barrels could come in as a 9mm or a .357 but if they publically specified one size then they would have to tighten things up on the tolerances or people would complain and / or return product as faulty when their bullets didn't fit.

 
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Crosman will not release the info. I couldn't even get them to tell what size the breech o-ring was when I ordered my bulldog direct from Crosman. Wanted to stock up on breech seals from the o-ring store, but they would not tell me. Had to wait till I got the gun, pull out the o-ring and measure it myself.

The twist is RH 1:14, 6 groove. I just run a Nosler in for a quick measurement and got .350" land .357" groove.
 
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"ajshoots"I don't believe there were 2 different versions, just tolerance in the barrels. Most of the guys that are casting are slugging their barrels to get the needed slug size. No 2 barrels are alike. Because of unique bore difference, it is possible that even 2 barrels that slug at .357 might not both shoot good with .357 sized slugs/ bullets. It can be tricky finding the right size.

I had a .25 caliber barrel that slugged at .250" and a touch heavy at that. I expected it would need .250" or larger slugs, but it actually shot .249" the best.

The Bulldog is easy to tune. It could be turned down to gain shot count, but for me, I wanted to be around 150fpe with no regard for shot count. I actually think a 20fps spread over 5 shots at 150fpe isn't all too bad for a bullpup that cost so little.

I haven't had the time to try it yet, but I would like to convert mine over to .257 one of these days.


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A 20 fps spread isn't bad considering, but I'm sure you would appreciate it if you could achieve the same over 10 shots. In stock form the first shot is around 180fpe (with nosler) and goes down to around 110-115 fpe. A consistent 150fpe over 7-10 shots might be achievable. 
 
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Given this statement below direct from their Manual I am not sure that tolerances are the issue. I hope Chip provides some additional information shedding some light on what the issue actually is. 

" The air rifle was designed to function best with BENJAMIN ® and Nosler ® lead airgun pellets/bullets. • Use of other ammunition may cause the gun to malfunction and could cause damage to the air pistol."

I will order some Nosler bullets and see what they measure (Nosler has always produced a very uniform exact product in the past with very tight tolerances...at least on the powder burner side). Once this information is known it is simple to have Lee produce a custom sizing kit if the bullet is not a standard .358 cast size.

Thurmond
 
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I was talking about 150fpe for 5 shots with the JSB's and it isn't a descending shot string. It actually has a bell curve in those 5 shots. I get over 170fpe with Noslers and can get 7 shots at around 60fps spread. I just shoot 5 as the spread is much tighter and again it is a curve not a descending string. (These numbers are the average velicity, not the max. My gun came almost this way. I only had to make a few minor adjustments to tighten the spread)Most big bores get 1-5 good shots and those that get 3-5 typically descend and don't have a curve.

As far as shot count, I was elated I got 5 shots that consistent. I have a .25 that only gets 8 shots and before I bottled the .30 I built, it only got 7. I have unlimited air and shot count just doesn't matter to me.
 
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T3PRanchGiven this statement below direct from their Manual I am not sure that tolerances are the issue. I hope Chip provides some additional information shedding some light on what the issue actually is. 

" The air rifle was designed to function best with BENJAMIN ® and Nosler ® lead airgun pellets/bullets. • Use of other ammunition may cause the gun to malfunction and could cause damage to the air pistol."

I will order some Nosler bullets and see what they measure (Nosler has always produced a very uniform exact product in the past with very tight tolerances...at least on the powder burner side). Once this information is known it is simple to have Lee produce a custom sizing kit if the bullet is not a standard .358 cast size.

Thurmond
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I have 2 boxes of Noslers. Random bullets from each box measured right at .357" -.358". Most were spot on at .357".
 
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"ajshoots"
"T3PRanch"Given this statement below direct from their Manual I am not sure that tolerances are the issue. I hope Chip provides some additional information shedding some light on what the issue actually is. 

" The air rifle was designed to function best with BENJAMIN ® and Nosler ® lead airgun pellets/bullets. • Use of other ammunition may cause the gun to malfunction and could cause damage to the air pistol."

I will order some Nosler bullets and see what they measure (Nosler has always produced a very uniform exact product in the past with very tight tolerances...at least on the powder burner side). Once this information is known it is simple to have Lee produce a custom sizing kit if the bullet is not a standard .358 cast size.

Thurmond
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I have 2 boxes of Noslers. Random bullets from each box measured right at .357" -.358". Most were spot on at .357".
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Tom Gaylord did a 5 -part review of the Bulldog and I just noticed that he also measured the Noslers in it. He found the same .357 for the one he put in the calipers. He tried some hard lead bullets for a .357 revolver and they got stuck in the barrel and had to be removed with a rod. Soft lead was apparently no issue as it was soft enough to be sized in the bore. 

The bulldog seems to be the most reviewed air rifle ever. It just needs a Ted review and it will have been covered by everyone.
 
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Strangely enough Chip has reconfirmed that Crosman sees bore dimensions as proprietary information which as I stated before is borderline ludicrous IMHO. From what you guys have measured I think a standard 38 Special / 357 mag bullet mold using pure lead will work just fine. If someone with a bulldog would like to PM me their address I will cast up some .357 bullets and send them along for testing. Would also be great if anyone with some of those Noslers could measure them with a Micrometer which is more accurate than most calipers.

Thurmond
 
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T3PRanchStrangely enough Chip has reconfirmed that Crosman sees bore dimensions as proprietary information which as I stated before is borderline ludicrous IMHO. From what you guys have measured I think a standard 38 Special / 357 mag bullet mold using pure lead will work just fine. If someone with a bulldog would like to PM me their address I will cast up some .357 bullets and send them along for testing. Would also be great if anyone with some of those Noslers could measure them with a Micrometer which is more accurate than most calipers.

Thurmond
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Just measured 2 Noslers with a mic and got .3575"-.3580". I measured at both the base and the drive band.
 
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Thanks to the two of you who want to test some cast slugs. I PM'ed you both. Two of you testing ought to give us an indication of how cast pure lead will perform. If I remember correctly my mold is for 158 grain semi wadcutters.

Additional thanks to ajshoots for mic'ing a Nosler.

2 more questions. What is the length of those Noslers and what is the Maximum length the magazine will hold?

Thurmond
 
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The Grizzly in .25 doesn't shoot worth anything in my Marauder (just for the record). Horrible groups.

On another note I found my .358 mold and its a 162 grain semi-wadcutter. Looking at Mr. Hollow Point's Bulldog videos he had best results (velocity and Ft/lbs) at around 120 grains so I ordered a 6 cavity Lee Precision round nose 125 grain mold. I'll send a few of each weight to the two of you who will be testing.

Thurmond
 
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What causes cast bullets from the same manufacturer to come out in different sizes? Presumably they are cast in the same mold or could they be using some improperly sized tooling? For the guys that cast their own bullets, are you finding different diameters between casts from the same mold?

I do a lot of casting with various materials and a size difference would typically be from shrinkage which is more of an issue with some materials than others. If I needed precision, a zero shrinkage resin would solve the issue. I haven't cast lead before though. Is shrinkage an issue with it? I always assumed that shrinkage didn't apply to metals.

I understand the issue even less for stamped pellets because they could all be made using the same dye stamp.
 
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I received my in a trade for my 308 texan carbine...really lite bullpub ..357 cal I never liked that much .. but I have the 34" 308 texan barrel.. so to veradium it will go in a few days.. most of the bullet molds in 308 aviable for the texan up to 125g will fit in the bulldog mags..so if I could have 15 regulated shots of 115g bullet at 950fps .. I don't think it could be better than that...you could fit 32" barrel without changing the total length..n use the new flat boy in the treaded barrel..
 
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