N/A First Gun: FX Dynamic vs Umarex Zelos

[fishgod]

Planning on getting my first PCP gun and my choices are fairly limited living in Canada. Mostly longer range plinking (50-70m), the very occasional small game at close range

Having a tough time deciding what to get as I have some difficult requirements.

- .22 caliber
- External regulator
- Accurate
- LARGE air cylinder, 150+ shot count at a reasonable power (18ish grain pellet at 900fps) I've heard I will likely need about 900cc's of air minimum
- Prefer compact but I can work with a longer gun if it has the shot count
- Looks are fairly unimportant, but reliability is
- Magazine fed

Currently looking at 2 guns which are available to me in Canada at a reasonable price:

1. FX Dynamic VP 600: A second bottle is easy to attach under the barrel, would be able to hold 900+cc of air. Should be enough for 150+ shots. High end gun from a reputable company. Top tier accuracy, and a giant plenum. Have heard they are very efficient and waste no air per shot. Heard a few people complain about reliability with FX?

2. Umarex Zelos/SnowPeak M60: They're basically the same gun and I can purchase either here. I would plan to attach 2 bottles to the front with an adapter for around 900cc's of air.
Pros: cheaper and more compact than the FX
Cons: Chinese manufacturing & reliability issues, questionable warranty and support. Small plenum, I hear accuracy is very very good but not up to FX's level. Little bit wide with 2 bottles side by side

I'm open to other suggestions but the big thing is, I want it to all be one contained unit which has a very high shot count as I cannot bring a compressor or pump with me. So far I'm between those 2 guns. Any insight as to things I'm missing or the reliability of either gun would be appreciated. Am I better of just paying a bit more for the premium FX gun? A buy once cry once type of thing?

 

[Rob_in_NC]

You'll likely get a lot of comments here on this one, but firstly...congrats to all my Canadian friends up north.

I have multiple FX guns; I have multiple SnowPeak guns, though not the M60.

For a first and/or only PCP, if you have the coin to spend, I would go with the FX. I've never begrudged a dime I've spent on good equipment. As a second gun (or 102nd), or a tinker project, I really like the SnowPeak guns. The M60 in particular is interesting to me.

If this is to be your only PCP and you dont want to tinker, I'd splurge. If you're the kind of person who wont leave well enough alone and wants to incessantly tune and tinker and understand the associated risks, then sure... go with the M60.

 

[Peashooter]

I think you will be hard pressed to find a .22 that will give you 150 shots on a fill, even if some these days can be had with a massive 1000 CC bottle ( RTI Mora ) then i personally think that is horrible to look at and i imagine hard to use all other places than a bench.
You can get 700 CC bottles that will fit quite a few rifles, and the only downside being they are then longer bottles.
As you mention there is also the dual bottle setup you can get / do on a range of rifles, but like the 1000 CC solution i find that unsustainable all places but at the bench, and in that case you might as well just have a regular size bottle and shoot tethered to a 9 - 12 L bottle like i do myself, CUZ i can not be bothered wit filling, i sit down and shoot for 5-6-7-8 hours strait some times during summer. 1200 shots in a day no problem.

Alternative, you can step down to 4.5 mm / .177 like i am tied to by my cruel masters, that can give you 150 shots in a charge, and still pretty hard hitting even if you stick to 13 grain.
I can load up 24 grain slugs and push over 50 food pounds in my 700 mm long Epic two rifle, but they are not accurate at longer ranges, but say 50 M you only have to hit the same place on a steel shipping container a couple of times before you have a hole in it, and that is quite doable as i found out one day at our range.

Shockingly CUZ inside the container is a rater expensive large garden pond filter, but fortunately the container we have is a special one so it had dual layer where i drilled a hole shooting at a 3/4" branch leaned up against the container.
and for range. well shooting 13 grain slugs and 16 grain, out to 130 Meters and very good chance of always hitting a tennis balle sized target, and i am not sad when i use my 2" shoot N see splatter targets either, only downside is the rather small holes .177 leave in backing cardboard, you do need a 30 X magnification scope to see good.

20 - 50 yards, splatter flies often, only a couple of times at 100 yards, and only 1 time way past 100 yards, but you do make holes very close to where the fly was if you miss, though often they are cold as ice and dont even move when you do that, which i find amazing scaled up its like if you stand on a field and a airplane motor fall out of the sky and land right next to you.

Downside not so much choice in ammo in .177, but there are still enough to cover most flavors.

I also like to shoot 10 - 13 grain pellets now and then, but 100 yards is stretching it even on a almost no wind day, but for the in close stuff well you dont have to shoot slugs there.

PS i shoot 13 grain Zan slugs at 70 BAR pressure ( 980 FPS ) Using a 700 mm long " runway " in my Epic airguns Two rifle.
10 grain pellets and i am all the way down at the minimum of the regulator which is 56 BAR

 

[SpindleB]

Planning on getting my first PCP gun and my choices are fairly limited living in Canada. Mostly longer range plinking (50-70m), the very occasional small game at close range

Having a tough time deciding what to get as I have some difficult requirements.

- .22 caliber
- External regulator
- Accurate
- LARGE air cylinder, 150+ shot count at a reasonable power (18ish grain pellet at 900fps) I've heard I will likely need about 900cc's of air minimum
- Prefer compact but I can work with a longer gun if it has the shot count
- Looks are fairly unimportant, but reliability is
- Magazine fed

Currently looking at 2 guns which are available to me in Canada at a reasonable price:

1. FX Dynamic VP 600: A second bottle is easy to attach under the barrel, would be able to hold 900+cc of air. Should be enough for 150+ shots. High end gun from a reputable company. Top tier accuracy, and a giant plenum. Have heard they are very efficient and waste no air per shot. Heard a few people complain about reliability with FX?

2. Umarex Zelos/SnowPeak M60: They're basically the same gun and I can purchase either here. I would plan to attach 2 bottles to the front with an adapter for around 900cc's of air.
Pros: cheaper and more compact than the FX
Cons: Chinese manufacturing & reliability issues, questionable warranty and support. Small plenum, I hear accuracy is very very good but not up to FX's level. Little bit wide with 2 bottles side by side

I'm open to other suggestions but the big thing is, I want it to all be one contained unit which has a very high shot count as I cannot bring a compressor or pump with me. So far I'm between those 2 guns. Any insight as to things I'm missing or the reliability of either gun would be appreciated. Am I better of just paying a bit more for the premium FX gun? A buy once cry once type of thing?

You don't need two bottle adapter for the M60b.

Huben Power M18-Dream Universal Regulator Ultra-stable output pressure

Huben Power M18-Dream Universal Regulator Ultra-stable output pressure Universal regulator, the front end of the cylinder is M18*1.5 thread. Ultra-stable output pressure External adjustment function Air chamber volume 25CC Regulating pressure range 500psi~3600psi Note: Please do not adjust the...

shop.hubenpower.com

With that you can add pretty much any CF bottle that is less than 96mm diameter. Pretty much everything from 0.22 to 1.1L. Above 1.1L you have to be careful as there are generally multiple type bottles with different diameters. But 1.6 or possibly 2L can be used. You would need to measure things to be sure above 1.1L.

Or talk to Wes at Airgun Archery Fun and find out when the Snowpeak Max 1 will be available. I believe he may still have some pre-orders left.

-- Matt

 

[JaceSpace1369]

Planning on getting my first PCP gun and my choices are fairly limited living in Canada. Mostly longer range plinking (50-70m), the very occasional small game at close range

Having a tough time deciding what to get as I have some difficult requirements.

- .22 caliber
- External regulator
- Accurate
- LARGE air cylinder, 150+ shot count at a reasonable power (18ish grain pellet at 900fps) I've heard I will likely need about 900cc's of air minimum
- Prefer compact but I can work with a longer gun if it has the shot count
- Looks are fairly unimportant, but reliability is
- Magazine fed

Currently looking at 2 guns which are available to me in Canada at a reasonable price:

1. FX Dynamic VP 600: A second bottle is easy to attach under the barrel, would be able to hold 900+cc of air. Should be enough for 150+ shots. High end gun from a reputable company. Top tier accuracy, and a giant plenum. Have heard they are very efficient and waste no air per shot. Heard a few people complain about reliability with FX?

2. Umarex Zelos/SnowPeak M60: They're basically the same gun and I can purchase either here. I would plan to attach 2 bottles to the front with an adapter for around 900cc's of air.
Pros: cheaper and more compact than the FX
Cons: Chinese manufacturing & reliability issues, questionable warranty and support. Small plenum, I hear accuracy is very very good but not up to FX's level. Little bit wide with 2 bottles side by side

I'm open to other suggestions but the big thing is, I want it to all be one contained unit which has a very high shot count as I cannot bring a compressor or pump with me. So far I'm between those 2 guns. Any insight as to things I'm missing or the reliability of either gun would be appreciated. Am I better of just paying a bit more for the premium FX gun? A buy once cry once type of thing?

When I had my impact mk2 and mk3 with a 300cc bottle I would get between 110 and 120 shots shooting 18gr at 890fps. So needing 900cc of air seems way excessive.

I would think the zelos with a 580cc bottle would be more than enough for 150shots

 

[Florida_Man]

I wouldn’t worry about buying a Snowpeak. I have six that have given be no issues and a 7th coming soon. Between all of them all I have had to do is replace one oring. I’ve owned or own Kalibrgun, FX, Daystate, BRK, and Air Arms. Some of those have come and gone, but I’ve never sold a Snowpeak I’ve owned. They are the best value in my opinion for recreational shooters.

I have two different experiences with FX. I had an aluminum bottle unregulated Royale that was a phenomenal gun. I also had a Maverick that had to go back within weeks of taking ownership for warranty work, and then chased wandering POI. It was a small amount, but I shot that rifle at small targets at 30y for score. No bueno.

 

[Fodzy le Geek]

Planning on getting my first PCP gun and my choices are fairly limited living in Canada. Mostly longer range plinking (50-70m), the very occasional small game at close range

Having a tough time deciding what to get as I have some difficult requirements.

- .22 caliber
- External regulator
- Accurate
- LARGE air cylinder, 150+ shot count at a reasonable power (18ish grain pellet at 900fps) I've heard I will likely need about 900cc's of air minimum
- Prefer compact but I can work with a longer gun if it has the shot count
- Looks are fairly unimportant, but reliability is
- Magazine fed

Currently looking at 2 guns which are available to me in Canada at a reasonable price:

1. FX Dynamic VP 600: A second bottle is easy to attach under the barrel, would be able to hold 900+cc of air. Should be enough for 150+ shots. High end gun from a reputable company. Top tier accuracy, and a giant plenum. Have heard they are very efficient and waste no air per shot. Heard a few people complain about reliability with FX?

2. Umarex Zelos/SnowPeak M60: They're basically the same gun and I can purchase either here. I would plan to attach 2 bottles to the front with an adapter for around 900cc's of air.
Pros: cheaper and more compact than the FX
Cons: Chinese manufacturing & reliability issues, questionable warranty and support. Small plenum, I hear accuracy is very very good but not up to FX's level. Little bit wide with 2 bottles side by side

I'm open to other suggestions but the big thing is, I want it to all be one contained unit which has a very high shot count as I cannot bring a compressor or pump with me. So far I'm between those 2 guns. Any insight as to things I'm missing or the reliability of either gun would be appreciated. Am I better of just paying a bit more for the premium FX gun? A buy once cry once type of thing?

Go to your first choice, an FX Dynamic. One of the most accurate PCP on the market with quality. You could ad if you want a 700cc bottle on it with a saber deport bottle that could give you 700cc+480cc. If you want a look at, I'have made a video on the panthera and the dynamic with a front bottle. :

 

[SpindleB]

When I had my impact mk2 and mk3 with a 300cc bottle I would get between 110 and 120 shots shooting 18gr at 890fps. So needing 900cc of air seems way excessive.

I would think the zelos with a 580cc bottle would be more than enough for 150shots

My 1.1L tank on my .22 Barrage goes from 4500PSI to 3500PSi after 160 rounds. Given the regulator is set at 170bar (~2500psi) I should get ~300 rounds before I reach regulator pressure and probably another 50-100 before I *must* fill the bottle. The point being why limit yourself to 150 rounds, especially when shooting from the bench/tripod. Just keep filling up those spare magazines and pop pop pop...

-- Matt

 

[JaceSpace1369]

My 1.1L tank on my .22 Barrage goes from 4500PSI to 3500PSi after 160 rounds. Given the regulator is set at 170bar (~2500psi) I should get ~300 rounds before I reach regulator pressure and probably another 50-100 before I *must* fill the bottle. The point being why limit yourself to 150 rounds, especially when shooting from the bench/tripod. Just keep filling up those spare magazines and pop pop pop...

-- Matt

I get that, but given he was going for a specific number, how much is giving information on what he should be able to use without doing so much. If he just wants to shoot at the bench, he might as well just get a 9L tank and shoot tethered. I don't think this is the case, and shooting with 900cc of air is cumbersome.

Idk what you power settings are at but if it's to shoot 18 at 900, that barrage is an air hog, which is typical of hatsans.

 

[Perle]

Zelos is very inexpensive and punches a few weight classes above its weight

I’m sure the FX is an excellent rifle. The SPA /Snowpeaks are some real value and they perform !
I have 6 Snowpeak all are excellent , accurate and well made

 

[Firewalker]

I've got good news for you, fishgod!

The M60B comes with a quick disconnect bottle adapter! Buy a second adapter from Wes and you can run 2 big bottles.

Just twist the low one off and twist the full one on! It's just that easy...

Also... if you want the same barrel as the Dynamic, just purchase the FX barrel kit from c88machining on ebay and buy the liner of your choice.

You don't have to compromise, you can have both in one gun.

I have 2 Zelos and 2 M60's, my fully kitted out Maverick sits in the rack....

 

[xsarfc9x]

There is a learning curve to PCPs and you need a general level of competence to make the adjustments. The FX guns are great but there are a lot of adjustment points and it's easy to get lost and struggle to get the gun where you want it. Id suggest reading RSterns PDFs on PCPs. I think they're posted on Hard air's site.

Personally I'd go with the Snowpeak m60B . You can adjust the reg easily and the hammer spring as well. Its easy to reset and if you don't like how you set it up. I've got one in .22 and it likes H&N Barracudas and Zan .218 slugs.

That being said if you can find a used FX Impact I think you'd be happy with it as well.

 

[SpindleB]

I get that, but given he was going for a specific number, how much is giving information on what he should be able to use without doing so much. If he just wants to shoot at the bench, he might as well just get a 9L tank and shoot tethered. I don't think this is the case, and shooting with 900cc of air is cumbersome.

Idk what you power settings are at but if it's to shoot 18 at 900, that barrage is an air hog, which is typical of hatsans.

No, he said "150+ shot count at a reasonable power"
With the M60B and a 2 reg setup (M60B is regulated) you could set up a 4500PSi bottle for pretty much whatever you wanted shot count wise and have some serious knock down power. I'm not sure if you can remove the M60b reg and just go single reg but dual regs will work for sure.

A M60b, big bottle, dual regs, decent scope (no moderator, he is in Canada) and you are still under $1,000. You could build up 2, .22 and .25, for around the same price a the Dynamic will cost you without any loss in accuracy or reliability.

-- Matt

 

[JaceSpace1369]

No, he said "150+ shot count at a reasonable power"
With the M60B and a 2 reg setup (M60B is regulated) you could set up a 4500PSi bottle for pretty much whatever you wanted shot count wise and have some serious knock down power. I'm not sure if you can remove the M60b reg and just go single reg but dual regs will work for sure.

A M60b, big bottle, dual regs, decent scope (no moderator, he is in Canada) and you are still under $1,000. You could build up 2, .22 and .25, for around the same price a the Dynamic will cost you without any loss in accuracy or reliability.

-- Matt

Ahh okay, I missed that 150 plus part. Yeah you're absolutely right on with both statements. My buddies zelos .22 shoots zans 28.5gr so good at 174yd it will hit the same can over and over and over. That's right out of the box! Detuned to 31fpe from the 39-40fpe they come with plus the air he'll definitely get a ton of shots and bang for buck

 

[fishgod]

You'll likely get a lot of comments here on this one, but firstly...congrats to all my Canadian friends up north.

I have multiple FX guns; I have multiple SnowPeak guns, though not the M60.

For a first and/or only PCP, if you have the coin to spend, I would go with the FX. I've never begrudged a dime I've spent on good equipment. As a second gun (or 102nd), or a tinker project, I really like the SnowPeak guns. The M60 in particular is interesting to me.

If this is to be your only PCP and you dont want to tinker, I'd splurge. If you're the kind of person who wont leave well enough alone and wants to incessantly tune and tinker and understand the associated risks, then sure... go with the M60.

This will likely be my only pcp, but I know people say that and then end up with 10 more eventually. Many people have responded and the have noted the FX is more difficult to set up and is actually more of a constant tinkering gun. I plan on tinkering to get it set up the way I like, and then just leaving it as a "set it and forget it" (apart from maintenance). I've heard the SnowPeak is actually fairly reliable which makes it a hard choice
If the FX is a significant improvement, I'm willing to spend the bit extra for the peace of mind

 

[fishgod]

I think you will be hard pressed to find a .22 that will give you 150 shots on a fill, even if some these days can be had with a massive 1000 CC bottle ( RTI Mora ) then i personally think that is horrible to look at and i imagine hard to use all other places than a bench.
You can get 700 CC bottles that will fit quite a few rifles, and the only downside being they are then longer bottles.
As you mention there is also the dual bottle setup you can get / do on a range of rifles, but like the 1000 CC solution i find that unsustainable all places but at the bench, and in that case you might as well just have a regular size bottle and shoot tethered to a 9 - 12 L bottle like i do myself, CUZ i can not be bothered wit filling, i sit down and shoot for 5-6-7-8 hours strait some times during summer. 1200 shots in a day no problem.

Alternative, you can step down to 4.5 mm / .177 like i am tied to by my cruel masters, that can give you 150 shots in a charge, and still pretty hard hitting even if you stick to 13 grain.
I can load up 24 grain slugs and push over 50 food pounds in my 700 mm long Epic two rifle, but they are not accurate at longer ranges, but say 50 M you only have to hit the same place on a steel shipping container a couple of times before you have a hole in it, and that is quite doable as i found out one day at our range.

Shockingly CUZ inside the container is a rater expensive large garden pond filter, but fortunately the container we have is a special one so it had dual layer where i drilled a hole shooting at a 3/4" branch leaned up against the container.
and for range. well shooting 13 grain slugs and 16 grain, out to 130 Meters and very good chance of always hitting a tennis balle sized target, and i am not sad when i use my 2" shoot N see splatter targets either, only downside is the rather small holes .177 leave in backing cardboard, you do need a 30 X magnification scope to see good.

20 - 50 yards, splatter flies often, only a couple of times at 100 yards, and only 1 time way past 100 yards, but you do make holes very close to where the fly was if you miss, though often they are cold as ice and dont even move when you do that, which i find amazing scaled up its like if you stand on a field and a airplane motor fall out of the sky and land right next to you.

Downside not so much choice in ammo in .177, but there are still enough to cover most flavors.

I also like to shoot 10 - 13 grain pellets now and then, but 100 yards is stretching it even on a almost no wind day, but for the in close stuff well you dont have to shoot slugs there.

PS i shoot 13 grain Zan slugs at 70 BAR pressure ( 980 FPS ) Using a 700 mm long " runway " in my Epic airguns Two rifle.
10 grain pellets and i am all the way down at the minimum of the regulator which is 56 BAR

A large canister like that is not an option for me unfortunately. I won't be bench shooting at all, I'll primarily shooting prone and maybe the odd standing shot. It needs to be a portable enough setup that I can take on a motorcycle, and then hike a mile or two into the bush with.

I'm pretty set on a .22 as I will be doing the odd small game hunting so I want to make sure it's an ethical kill

 

[fishgod]

You don't need two bottle adapter for the M60b.

Huben Power M18-Dream Universal Regulator Ultra-stable output pressure

Huben Power M18-Dream Universal Regulator Ultra-stable output pressure Universal regulator, the front end of the cylinder is M18*1.5 thread. Ultra-stable output pressure External adjustment function Air chamber volume 25CC Regulating pressure range 500psi~3600psi Note: Please do not adjust the...

shop.hubenpower.com

With that you can add pretty much any CF bottle that is less than 96mm diameter. Pretty much everything from 0.22 to 1.1L. Above 1.1L you have to be careful as there are generally multiple type bottles with different diameters. But 1.6 or possibly 2L can be used. You would need to measure things to be sure above 1.1L.

Or talk to Wes at Airgun Archery Fun and find out when the Snowpeak Max 1 will be available. I believe he may still have some pre-orders left.

-- Matt

I assume I'd need another adapter to attach to that one as the m60b uses an M16x1.5 thread I believe. I believe it will take up to a 0.7L bottle fine as is without needing to drop the bottle lower. Ideally the bottle wouldn't extend past the barrel of the gun, and I think I only have about 16 or so inches of room for the adapter+bottle
Someone else mentioned that it's capable of quick changing air bottles which is great, in which case I may have room to bring an extra 0.5L or 0.7L bottle and swap when it gets too low. Would help with weight

 

[fishgod]

When I had my impact mk2 and mk3 with a 300cc bottle I would get between 110 and 120 shots shooting 18gr at 890fps. So needing 900cc of air seems way excessive.

I would think the zelos with a 580cc bottle would be more than enough for 150shots

That's very good to know, I always assume the stated website shot count is at the minimum power setting, while the energy/fps is with the regulator turned all the way up. 150 shots was my bare minimum, so anything more than that is even better. The Zelos isn't as efficient as an Impact I believe, but I may be able to just run a 700cc to try and get 200 shots. Or a two 580cc and quick swap them. I will be likely lowering the regulator a bit to shoot just under 900fps for max accuracy

 

[fishgod]

I wouldn’t worry about buying a Snowpeak. I have six that have given be no issues and a 7th coming soon. Between all of them all I have had to do is replace one oring. I’ve owned or own Kalibrgun, FX, Daystate, BRK, and Air Arms. Some of those have come and gone, but I’ve never sold a Snowpeak I’ve owned. They are the best value in my opinion for recreational shooters.

I have two different experiences with FX. I had an aluminum bottle unregulated Royale that was a phenomenal gun. I also had a Maverick that had to go back within weeks of taking ownership for warranty work, and then chased wandering POI. It was a small amount, but I shot that rifle at small targets at 30y for score. No bueno.

The vote of confidence for SnowPeak is good. It seems that they're one of the best Chinese manufactured guns and can hold their own with the western brands. I've heard mixed things about FX, many swear by them, but some people have issues like yours it seems

 

[fishgod]

Go to your first choice, an FX Dynamic. One of the most accurate PCP on the market with quality. You could ad if you want a 700cc bottle on it with a saber deport bottle that could give you 700cc+480cc. If you want a look at, I'have made a video on the panthera and the dynamic with a front bottle. :

That's exactly the setup I was going to be doing if I get the FX. Yours looks great and I'm sure the accuracy is amazing. Not sure how long you've owned them, but any issues with reliability or regulator creep? I'd like to just set the gun up the way I like and then not tinker with it apart from maintenance
My main concern with this set up is the length and weight as I will be taking it on a motorcycle and then hiking a ways with it. So no bench shooting for me.