• Please consider adding your "Event" to the Calendar located on our Home page!

Flag recommendation

I think it has to do with time over distance. Push the pellet a bit exiting the muzzle and it has a greater amount of time and distance to move further and further off course than it does if you pushed it off course 20’ from the target. Granted I am no ballistic engineer but just using plain old country common sense logic.
Your correct. It does not go out there like a snake or W Va back road. Once it starts to steer it can steer quicker or slow its curve but its not coming back the other way. Closet flag to the muzzle has the greatest imfluence. Common sense beats engineering most often.
 
Last edited:
I’ve switched to the dual vane Wicks flags. The dual vanes allow you to see exactly which direction the flag is pointing without trouble. You can discern very slight angle changes. These flags come with 2 very light tails that I find distracting and mostly useless above 3 mph. I replace the 2 light tails with one heavier and longer tail.

At 25m….the black and white ball was adequate to tell me if the flags were tipping in or away. At 50 and longer I struggled to get the same information quickly.

To learn much from wind flags, you must have near 100% accurate feedback. You will not get anywhere close to that at 100y with a pellet gun. Nobody is going to learn much about wind and flags by shooting at 100y. You will have to learn the wind at a shorter distance (50y max). You will get very confusing information, otherwise….and develop bugaboos based on false connections of flag position and resulting poi. At 100y with a pellet gun…the feedback loop is unreliable.

After you can predict poi reliably at 50y or less with high percentage accuracy …you will be able to use what you know to to make a better decision about what may happen at 100.

Mike
Man, I've learned so much from you, Mike, in this and your other posts on AGN. I'm new to the sport and have just been cheating off of my benchrest-neighbor's windflags during club practices and matches (shout out to the Phoenix Airgun Club). This thread has made it obvious that I need to get my own set so I can learn to read the flags more precisely.

I was looking at the Wicks style double vane wind flags and wondered what size you use? Also, you mentioned using heavier, longer tails, for assessing velocity. Do you also propellers on your double vane wind flags?

Todd
 
Hey Todd,
Ditto on learning a LOT off of Mike!

Yesterday I ordered some Wicks style flags to try. He only makes the small size now and he doesn’t use “Sail tails” but prefers the more sensitive heavy surveyors tape instead. He said the bulk of his customers is 100 yards and in and the larger flags were just getting too expensive to ship. Hope that helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Altair-uy
Yes it does. Did you get spinners? I see some of the guys at the club have spinners, which seem to indicate when the wind is blowing, but at a certain velocity they don't indicate if it is blowing medium or hard, cuz I can't judge the speed of the spinner.

Did you get them from here then: http://benchrest.com/class/index.php?a=2&b=4729 ? If so, I was having a hard time understanding what he means by, "Up and downer for $75 Benchtop version with a take apart stand are $70.00 Whirly gigs and quality stands are also available." Not sure what whirly gigs means, and what's the difference between a benchtop take apart stand and a quality stand?
 
Yes, I ordered from that link by calling that phone number. Ray can answer your question much better than I can. It’s about a 2 week lead time to get them although I am in no hurry as our season officially ended with tonight’s final ARA match. I have a daisy wheel on my current flags and although one vane is black I have no clue how to accurately read wind speed from watching it spin. I judge wind speed by the angle of the tail and that info helps with with the amount of hold off I use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whitefox545
An Up and downer shows up and down drafts and is totally different. Some of the guys use them at our range but I’ve not used them yet. I bought my stands a couple years ago on eBay for $16 for a pair and they sure look like the same ones he sells. I’m very happy with my stands. They are sold as “photo light stands”. I hang a 5lb lead weight on the bottom now as my stand did blow over once during a match and if that happens you are up poopz creek.
 
As a long time centerfire bench rest shooter from 100 to 1000 yards I will add some things I have learned shooting over flags for 30 plus years. #1 Always shoot over flags. Testing, practicing, competing, whatever, flags always. #2 Bench Manners, How you set up your rest and bags plus handle the gun. Flags won't cover for poor bench manners. #3 I like to stagger the flags low to higher in a slight curve starting close to the bench curving out then back into the target. 3 flags for 50 and 4 for 100. You can only process so much information. # 4 I have arrived at a match with the wrong or no ammo and/or gun. I have had the wrong rest or bags. But I have never forgot my flags or my timer. #5 The flags will become lost in the nagging fear of running out of time if you don't know the time. If your afraid of running out of time and shoot by guessing at the wrong condition.....you lose. # 6 When you go to the line to shoot you should have an idea of what the prevailing condition is from watching your flags before hand instead of just standing around b.s.ing and collecting dust.#7 Ok you have flags and a clock. You should begin by figuring out how long your condition holds, can you get off more than one shot, and how long till it returns these are often very repeatable.#8 Don't try to shoot in a reverse condition unless your going to be out of time. During warmups take a couple shots in the reverse so if you must shoot it you have an idea where to hold. #9 If possible keep flags close to the line of flight path. #10 Always have the same weight of ribbon on all flags. I like cold weather flagging tape. Sailtails are too heavy and regular flagging tape to light for my taste.#11 Although you normally try to space flags evenly any obstacle in or close such as a bush, shooting over a berm.....deserves a flag. # 12 I personally Don't like over sensitive flags that are always twitching, although basically flags should be balanced sometimes an extra couple inches of tail will calm them down.#13 I change colors depending on the time of year and location. It's called spray paint. In the centerfire game many try to make it about the gun. I call b.s. He who reads the conditions correctly with a properly tuned gun and ammunition wins. Hope this helps.
Man this was very interesting and great information.
 
Did you get spinners?

K9, I asked Ray his opinion about spinners and black / white balls and this was his reply (which also reinforces what Mike said too).

"There is no ball or spinner on the flags. Over the years most shooters that had spinners took them off. The reason is they are heavy and the more they spin they act like a gyroscope and keep the flag from quickly changing direction. My flags have a balance weight inside one of the vanes that keeps the flag at a perfect balance side to side of the pin. The flag shaft has a brass counterweight that keeps the flag balance front to back and level on the pin. If ya want the spinners you can have them, but they are $20.00 each added to the cost of the flag and they really serve no purpose except to add more weight."
 
  • Like
Reactions: K9bite
K9, I asked Ray his opinion about spinners and black / white balls and this was his reply (which also reinforces what Mike said too).

"There is no ball or spinner on the flags. Over the years most shooters that had spinners took them off. The reason is they are heavy and the more they spin they act like a gyroscope and keep the flag from quickly changing direction. My flags have a balance weight inside one of the vanes that keeps the flag at a perfect balance side to side of the pin. The flag shaft has a brass counterweight that keeps the flag balance front to back and level on the pin. If ya want the spinners you can have them, but they are $20.00 each added to the cost of the flag and they really serve no purpose except to add more weight."
Thanks for the info
 
That is very difficult for me since I shoot right handed but my left eye is my dominant. BUT, I keep trying😁
Usually I lose my sight picture of the target once I open my left eye but occasionally I can see with both. I keep trying to see if I can condition my vision.
Thx
Dan
I hear you, I am left eye dominant and right handed. I use the flip open scope cap as a blinder for my left eye so I don't experience eye fatigue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rcs9250
I hear you, I am left eye dominant and right handed. I use the flip open scope cap as a blinder for my left eye so I don't experience eye fatigue.
Exact scenario I suffer from.
I have shot a long gun left handed for so long that it now feels alien for me to fire right handed.
I actually prefer a right handed rifle in a left handed stock.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Firewalker
With the conversation of spinner’s I think I will take them off and add a counter weight, see if helps concentrating on the flags not the whirly thing’s…
It’s kinda funny the first set of flags I ever purchased for CF Br didn’t have spinners and at that time most were going to the spinners.
The vane shows you direction, the tail shows you the intensity.