FT etiquette question

[Lgwoodworker]

I am new to the FT world (and to this forum). I have been to two matches, both of which were really enjoyable. I met some amazingly generous people, willing to share guns and ammo, willing to guide me through the rules, gifting me a bumbag and other swag, and so on. That said, I realize it is a competition and often there are significant prizes at stake. Is it bad form to solicit advice from squad mates? I am talking about things like, "how many mils did you hold off? where did you miss that last shot?" etc.

I am in this for the fun and enjoyment, and for the challenge of improving my shooting skills. Regarding the latter, I would like to learn from people more experience and better at this than me, but don't want to create any drama or controversy by engaging in taboo behavior. Someone might regard this as giving an advantage to one shooter over another, potentially "knocking someone out of the money".

 

[Gerry52]

We ALL have to learn somehow. Asking questions shouldn't be crossing etiquette boundaries.

 

[Franklink]

I'm curious to see what others think. But the first thought that came to me is distance.

In an AAFTA style match, distance is the taboo topic. For example, one guy shooting in Open or WFTF class, squadded with a Hunter class guy. The Hunter competitor is limited to 16x on the scope. If he's getting distances verbally from his squad mate, he's at an advantage over the other Hunter class shooters.

 

[Airgunoregon]

It's been my experience that it really depends on the match. If it's a local fun match, it's almost always about learning and comradery.. All questions are usually fine. If its a AAFTA GP match then that's a different matter. I would save all questions for after the match. Don't take a chance on distracting someone competing for the winners circle. Some nice folks will sacrifice their own score to help you... intentionally or not.

If you are a new shooter and not a contender for the winners circle... then that also is another matter and folks tend to be more generous with info. But, again, keep in mind that you don't want to break the concentration of another shooter. Questions should only be asked when the squad mate is not in the shooters box for sure... and really they should be asked after the match to be safe.

 

[Motorhead]

And will add .... He / They / She will have ZERO idea on D.O.P.E. data required for your rifles set up, pellet, power, mag or scope .. so don't even ask.
We're a real friendly bunch and light conversation is good, just be aware of your squad mates willingness to have banter while he is shooting or about too.

 

[Motorhead]

I'm curious to see what others think. But the first thought that came to me is distance.

In an AAFTA style match, distance is the taboo topic. For example, one guy shooting in Open or WFTF class, squadded with a Hunter class guy. The Hunter competitor is limited to 16x on the scope. If he's getting distances verbally from his squad mate, he's at an advantage over the other Hunter class shooters.

Due to the magnification & ranging advantage that WFTF or OPEN shooters have over a Hunter shooter, in mixed squads the HUNTER shooter shoots FIRST

 

[JimBentley]

If, in any style of competition, the top level person will not help a beginner it destroys the sport.

 

[Motorhead]

If, in any style of competition, the top level person will not help a beginner it destroys the sport.

Don't agree with this statement.
While there won't be any hand holding ... lol
Few of us will sit back & calmly watch a newbee get frustrated or watch them w/o comment while they struggle.

Been there & speak from experience being in BOTH shoes in my FT career of @ 12 seasons.

 

[JimBentley]

Don't agree with this statement.
While there won't be any hand holding ... lol
Few of us will sit back & calmly watch a newbee get frustrated or watch them w/o comment while they struggle.

Been there & speak from experience being in BOTH shoes in my FT career of @ 12 seasons.

My experience is from years of fire arms shooting. Both hand guns and rifles. I found that if there’s no compassion to help new shooters, the sport will die. Just my experience from the last 30 years.

 

[Motorhead]

Bench rest I would agree

Field Target is more a Gentleman's game and it has NO FUTURE unless those who know share with those that don't
*This coming from an FT Club match director & 2 time Hunter PCP AAFTA National Champion with @ 12 State titles in Rifle & Pistol championships.

If one chooses to be the Arrogant High & Mighty in the FT game you won't get much respect or earn many lasting relationships ... IMO, so just sayin

 

[Franklink]

My first ever match I was squadded with an old timer, who has since bowed out of field target due to a bad back. Wayne Smith is his name. He was very patient and talked me through the process, offering insight and input. With that in mind I've tried to offer the same when shooting with somebody new to ft.

@Motorhead, I like the idea of having the Hunter class guy (16x) shoot last in a mixed squad.

I don't mind chatting it up during a match, but the distance thing is taboo for me, and not just within a mixed class squad. I'm uncomfortable when asked what distance I used for a target by a squad mate. With the rules of sub20fpe field target putting such a high priority on range estimation, I just think it's best left unspoken during a match. Now, AFTER a match I don't mind if it comes up in discussion, but I don't like it during the match.

I don't mind general discussion going on while I'm shooting though. Although I've seen some dirty looks get thrown at excessively loud individuals by other shooters while they're "in the box."

Another thing, some people are funny about sharing how they're doing during a match. And I am a little bit too. If I'm clean up to that point, I really don't want that pointed out. Dunno if it's superstition, or the mental weight of not having missed yet, but I feel like I've ruined an awful lot of perfect scores on the shot right after some body pointed out that I'm 44/44 or 47/47 or 39/39.

Realize the above might make me sound uptight but that's far from the truth. Having fun during a match is high priority, and chatting with squadmates is part of the fun.

 

[Franklink]

Just thought of another one ......please don't ask to take a couple sighters when things aren't going well. It's not a frequent occurrence, but a handful of times over the years I've been asked by a squad mate if I mind if they take a couple sighters shots, "just to see where my shots are going." Bugs the snot out of me. The time for sighters was prior to the match. Sighters are not allowed in field target during the match. Don't try to drag me into your rule breaking by getting me to "allow" it.

Puts me in an the awkward position of being perceived as a jerk if I don't agree to let you have your sighters, or a rule breaker if I go along with it, neither of which I want to be.

 

[wildcj5]

If I am shooting with a newer shooter and it is a normal club match you can ask me anything. Distance, wind, etc. with a new shooter anything that helps them knock down targets and keeps them coming back is good.

Gp or a state match if you are new meaning first match same as above. But if you have some time under your belt I would be friendly and talkative but out of respect for other competitors I probably won’t give distances.

Another thing to consider when asking is the person you are shooting with. I know more than a few shooters that with give a target distance freely. It won’t be the right distance but they will happily tell you.

 

[Motorhead]

My first ever match I was squadded with an old timer, who has since bowed out of field target due to a bad back. Wayne Smith is his name. He was very patient and talked me through the process, offering insight and input. With that in mind I've tried to offer the same when shooting with somebody new to ft.

@Motorhead, I like the idea of having the Hunter class guy (16x) shoot last in a mixed squad.

Here is the reason a Hunter shooter needs to SHOOT FIRST

You a Hunter shooter NOT going first get to watch and stand near or behind your squad mates as they range and shoot ... A Keen observer pays attention to the targets distances on the shooters parallax wheel. Being a WFTF or Open shooter has VASTLY better ranging accuracy, it is seen as a Cheat for a Hunter class shooter to garner this info prior to addressing the lane with his lower magnification optics and less precise parallax accuracy.

I know a bummer ... but it's only fair.


SIGHTERS during a match ARE NOT ALLOWED PERIOD !!! Any shots taken outside of your turn addressing the target are to be counted as a miss at that lane or the next lane yet to be shot !!!
If match is 60 shots to completion .... you get 60 at target shots while on the official course. ( Exception being a bad pellet or not sure one loaded ? .. And stated to squad mate/s your burning a shot in the dirt ) If you take a shot at target, miss then state O' that was a burner shot .. No Bueno !! MISS
* If a shooters needs to take a Sighter / confirmation shot he sacrifices those shots as a miss/s !!! ( This During a Sanctioned event )
* If a club match or fun shoot, we allow it but ONLY after your "For Points" shots have happened on any given target & ONLY when announced your doing so with your squad partner/s.

Letting bad habits slide makes for cheaters when it counts .... Learn the rules & respect the game.

 

[Franklink]

Here is the reason a Hunter shooter needs to SHOOT FIRST

You a Hunter shooter NOT going first get to watch and stand near or behind your squad mates as they range and shoot ... A Keen observer pays attention to the targets distances on the shooters parallax wheel. Being a WFTF or Open shooter has VASTLY better ranging accuracy, it is seen as a Cheat for a Hunter class shooter to garner this info prior to addressing the lane with his lower magnification optics and less precise parallax accuracy.

I know a bummer ... but it's only fair.


SIGHTERS during a match ARE NOT ALLOWED PERIOD !!! Any shots taken outside of your turn addressing the target are to be counted as a miss at that lane or the next lane yet to be shot !!!
If match is 60 shots to completion .... you get 60 at target shots while on the official course. ( Exception being a bad pellet or not sure one loaded ? .. And stated to squad mate/s your burning a shot in the dirt ) If you take a shot at target, miss then state O' that was a burner shot .. No Bueno !! MISS
* If a shooters needs to take a Sighter / confirmation shot he sacrifices those shots as a miss/s !!! ( This During a Sanctioned event )
* If a club match or fun shoot, we allow it but ONLY after your "For Points" shots have happened on any given target & ONLY when announced your doing so with your squad partner/s.

Letting bad habits slide makes for cheaters when it counts .... Learn the rules & respect the game.

Yep, learn the rules and don't ask for exceptions, is what I was trying to convey there.

As for the Hunter shooting first, I was trying to agree with your prior post, but didn't type what I was thinking. Although I've never tried to look at somebody else's wheel to get a distance, seems dishonest. I've got a wheel or two on various guns that I know are off by a yard or two, but the dope matches the wheel. That'd be frustrating for somebody to be sneaking yardages, lol.

 

[Motorhead]

Yep, learn the rules and don't ask for exceptions, is what I was trying to convey there.

As for the Hunter shooting first, I was trying to agree with your prior post, but didn't type what I was thinking. Although I've never tried to look at somebody else's wheel to get a distance, seems dishonest. I've got a wheel or two on various guns that I know are off by a yard or two, but the dope matches the wheel. That'd be frustrating for somebody to be sneaking yardages, lol.

Perhaps as a long time competitor and running a Field target club all these years I'm overly critical or thinking the worst of "What If" ..... I'll digress back to my cocktail

 

[Franklink]

Perhaps as a long time competitor and running a Field target club all these years I'm overly critical or thinking the worst of "What If" ..... I'll digress back to my cocktail

Lessons learned through experience I'm sure.

 

[Lgwoodworker]

Thanks for the feedback, it is helpful. When it comes to my learning I would rather not “reinvent the wheel”. I find learning from other peoples experiences more effective. I also feel that some things have to be physically done to learn them (I never met a tennis player that mastered a backhand drop shot by ONLY watching a YouTube video). In lieu of ”field target workshops” or “personal FT coaches and trainers”, I see matches as a great situation to get both, especially since most of the folks I have met have been generous in this regard. I have no issue with the written rules (taking sighters during the match), I just don’t want to break unspoken rules.

as an example, this weekend, shooting in 25 mph swirling wind I was dying to ask my squad mate how the specific condition in the specific lane affected his aiming process, what was the thinking that led what ever adjustment he made, did he do anything for the uphill slope, why did he think his shot hit right where he was aiming instead of being pushed by the wind, did he see my shot and if so what feedback did he have for me, and so much more. (To be clear, he was very generous in giving of himself, and the whole event was relaxed)…I am just trying to understand if there is a hard and fast line not to cross that is universal, or if it is more of a case by case thing depending on the person(s) I am paired with.

 

[GeneT]

The easy solution is to "teach a man how to fish" - instead of providing a numerical range, explain the process you use to get there. It's still up to the shooter to make their own measurements and calculations. Simply providing an answer handicaps them, since they will only know one way to arrive at that answer next time (ask you).

I definitely agree that a sport that doesn't help its new members along is not long for the world.

GsT

 

[thane]

If your club offers Freestyle do that for your first couple matches. You can use a rangefinder checking your ranging, adjust your scope turrets as much as you like, ignore forced positions or not... it is up to you with no grace needed.