FT Newb Q: Why not more Thomas rifles in Hunter class?

[dayjd]

I have been playing the Hunter FT game from the 1st trial Nationals in Walcott, Ct in 2006. I have stated this before and it is still worth mentioning We had about 20-25 shooters in Hunter class and there were those that came with Styers, Daystates, EV2's, and many of the top rifles around at the time. I retired in 2010 and that same year won the Nationals with a HW100. I felt at the time I beat the most talented Hunter shooter in the game which had won the 2009 Nationals in Texas. I believe he continued to win another one or two after that. He was a rule pusher from the beginning coming up with creative ways to shoot HFT that were not mentioned in the rule book. He really was a great shooter but his desire to win and cheat got him banned at the 2015 in Michigan. However, at the 2011 Nationals in Pulaski, TN (Home of the Good Old Boys). We both were beat by a young man whose step dad was Dan Brown who I believe still holds the Nations record for shooting a first and only 250 at the 2011 Outdoor Nationals at 25 meters. Dan use to do well in the Open class himself and tuned the Marauder for his step son. Young Dan also shot from the prone position. Since then I believe the Marauder has won the Nationals two other times by other Top shooters.

The key to being a successful FT shooter or in any of the FT classes we shoot here in the USA is the ability to read the wind and make adjustments in your POA. Success with the forced positions is a big part of winning this game. I own a Thomas and it is as accurate as any gun out there off sticks and buckets and a big advantage to its accuracy is its weight. Unfortunately, the weight has been quite challenging for myself in the standing position. Somedays I do fairly well and other times I really struggle shooting offhand. At 75 I don't expect my off hand to improve much but if your class uses Shooting jackets and slings I have seen a great improvement in ones ability to stabilize even the heavy rifles. Not exactly for those that have problems getting down to a bum bag position and then getting back up. That's why I prefer the bucket.

There is no substitute for Practice, Practice, and Practice and as many have already mentiond ... Have Fun!

 

[jps2486]

No doubt that Thomas rifles are a fine product. I just got a match report from my old club in Arcadia, FL, the DeSoto airgunners. Top shooter of the day whipped everyone's a$$ with a QB78. That includes Thomas, RAW, Steyr, FX and Daystate rifles. Just proves, it's the indian, not the arrow. The winner obviously has superb marksmanship skills. BTW, the QB was heavily modified.

http://www.desotoairgunners.net/id311.htm

 

[Centercut]

Nice! Its like saying the Daytona 500 was won by a Chevy Malibu...

 

[Franklink]

Man I love to see stuff like that (high score from a QB78) in a game with such a tendency towards an outright arms race ($$$). I'm not complaining or trying to pick a fight, just stating that it's the nature of the beast-I'm as guilty of it as the rest.

Way to go Gene in Florida!

 

[Motorhead]

Now here an interesting twist ... Shooter / Gun / Set up / or Caliber ?



I recent years as my personal FT journey stated finding successes at larger venues I have mostly campaigned 2 primary guns .... A old Daystate MK3, and a Raw TM-1000

Both in .20 caliber FYI Recently picked up a New THOMAS and in now playing / tuning on it for @ 3+ months have come to the conclusion it is NO MORE / NO LESS accurate that the previous 2 rifles.

No ... More money DOES NOT buy greater accuracy in my specific case.



What is vastly different in these 3 rifles falls into the realm of Ergonomics, Weight distribution and in the way they handle and feel at an organic level with you the operator.

They are ... in laymen terms just TOOLS !! and with a skilled operator ones tools had better suit & fit you well to do what you do with said tool at a high efficiency !!!

It could be arguable that better tools make for a better craftsman ... or is it the Skill set known and not so much a Tool thing ? Both are relative and think skill trumps tools by a fairly large margin.

Yes one can do very very well with a basic & fairly inexpensive air rifle finding there greatest gains in learning the "SHOOTING SKILL" of the game before chasing higher quality equipment.



Scott S

 

[qball]

My goal one day is to get good enough to be able to beat most of the field with a cheap gun. I’m saving my S200 and 1720T for that reason. 


still remember back in the days I use to commute on a $50 used Walmart bike to train station through a local dirt trail popular with mountain bikers. The WTF I get from fully decked out bikers on their 5000 dollar bikes as I fly pass them going up “heart attack hill” in gym shorts while whistling was priceless! It was absolutely my favorite part of those days, on a good day I’ll pass at least a dozen fancy bikes on that “heart attack hill”, I was semi competitive in amateur mountain bike races way back then. 

 

[thomasair]

There is always a lot of confusion on this subject.

A person that is already accomplished at FT shooting can likely do well with an inexpensive rifle…although they will still have to put a ton of time into the gun. A person that has no experience in FT shooting will have a much tougher time learning the game with a rifle that isn’t perfectly set up for FT. The same goes for BR. Some people enjoy the challenge of getting a mediocre rifle to be competitive….and may have the specific skill set to make that happen. 99.9% of the people shooting FT don’t have that rifle fix up skill set. Higher end guns designed specifically for FT competition don’t need any fixing up and are a much easier path to the podium. If you want to be successful in the least amount of time…you have to learn hold, wind, ranging, and other game skills. Not having to learn how to deal with your rifle frees up a LOT of time that can be put to use elsewhere.

If you only plan to shoot at your local club for fun and can still enjoy yourself while not being competitive for a long time….get yourself a fixer upper and have at it.

If you actually want to shoot at the top levels of FT in a short amount of time…get a rifle that’s already figured out or send a gun to someone that knows how to do it. You will have saved yourself a ton of money in travel and match costs in the long run if actually being GP competitive is your goal.

Hunter division is not the top end class of FT. That statement is going to hurt some feelings….I’m sure of it. Any of the top WFTF shooters can step into Hunter and be GP competitive almost immediately….it is NOT the case the other way around. You don’t see a lot of Thomas guns in Hunter because there are far less guys in Hunter that take the game as seriously as the WFTF guys.

Mike. 

 

[Motorhead]

Hunter division is not the top end class of FT. That statement is going to hurt some feelings….I’m sure of it. Any of the top WFTF shooters can step into Hunter and be GP competitive almost immediately….it is NOT the case the other way around. You don’t see a lot of Thomas guns in Hunter because there are far less guys in Hunter that take the game as seriously as the WFTF guys.



Absolutely agree !!!

The WFTF guys put more effort in there skill set and $$$ into there rigs than any other class in the FT world .... FACT !!!

 

[qball]

There is always a lot of confusion on this subject.

A person that is already accomplished at FT shooting can likely do well with an inexpensive rifle…although they will still have to put a ton of time into the gun. A person that has no experience in FT shooting will have a much tougher time learning the game with a rifle that isn’t perfectly set up for FT. The same goes for BR. Some people enjoy the challenge of getting a mediocre rifle to be competitive….and may have the specific skill set to make that happen. 99.9% of the people shooting FT don’t have that rifle fix up skill set. Higher end guns designed specifically for FT competition don’t need any fixing up and are a much easier path to the podium. If you want to be successful in the least amount of time…you have to learn hold, wind, ranging, and other game skills. Not having to learn how to deal with your rifle frees up a LOT of time that can be put to use elsewhere.

If you only plan to shoot at your local club for fun and can still enjoy yourself while not being competitive for a long time….get yourself a fixer upper and have at it.

If you actually want to shoot at the top levels of FT in a short amount of time…get a rifle that’s already figured out or send a gun to someone that knows how to do it. You will have saved yourself a ton of money in travel and match costs in the long run if actually being GP competitive is your goal.

Hunter division is not the top end class of FT. That statement is going to hurt some feelings….I’m sure of it. Any of the top WFTF shooters can step into Hunter and be GP competitive almost immediately….it is NOT the case the other way around. You don’t see a lot of Thomas guns in Hunter because there are far less guys in Hunter that take the game as seriously as the WFTF guys.

Mike.

Wiser words have not been spoken!



Personally I strive to be as American as possible which means as I want to the best mediocre shooter possible! LOL! 

 

[GeneC]

Yep, my little rifle shoots pretty good. It’s very basic if not rudimentary compared to most precharged guns. These are most of the modifications.


Main Tube cut down to accommodate a 22ci Tank and Regulator, The regulator is set to just over 1000psi, Bolt modified to a "Probe Configuration" and cut to fit a 003 o-ring, all o-rings changed to urethane, The valve is mostly stock with the parts needed for Co2 removed and replaced with a return spring and shims, Valve seal is factory. The hammer configuration was converted to a "Cock on Open" set up with a kit from Archer Airguns, the tank adapter is also from Archer, I made the power adjustable by adding a long set screw to the rear end cap so I can vary the hammer spring pressure, this was only done so I could find what the max velocity of the gun was before it started wasting air. I made a straight bolt handle only because I thought the original had too much play in it. Trigger Assembly is factory, I just lightened, polished and adjusted it to my taste, The receiver is factory only drilled and tapped for a second set screw on the barrel. The Barrel is a Walther "Slow Twist Poly" choked 16mm, The muzzle is fitted with an Air Stripper, can't say for sure if the stripper makes a difference or not but the gun shoots well so I leave it. The front of the stock was cut off for tank clearance, The cheek riser was made from the lid of a "Tote Box" cut and heated and bent into shape and screwed to the gun. The scope is a Hawke Airmax 8-32 that I have to say I am a bit disappointed in, the sight picture is never very sharp and clear in the upper magnification, making it hard to range sometimes.

Gene.

 

[GeneC]

Yep, my little rifle shoots pretty good. It’s very basic if not rudimentary compared to most precharged guns. These are most of the modifications.


Main Tube cut down to accommodate a 22ci Tank and Regulator, The regulator is set to just over 1000psi, Bolt modified to a "Probe Configuration" and cut to fit a 003 o-ring, all o-rings changed to urethane, The valve is mostly stock with the parts needed for Co2 removed and replaced with a return spring and shims, Valve seal is factory. The hammer configuration was converted to a "Cock on Open" set up with a kit from Archer Airguns, the tank adapter is also from Archer, I made the power adjustable by adding a long set screw to the rear end cap so I can vary the hammer spring pressure, this was only done so I could find what the max velocity of the gun was before it started wasting air. I made a straight bolt handle only because I thought the original had too much play in it. Trigger Assembly is factory, I just lightened, polished and adjusted it to my taste, The receiver is factory only drilled and tapped for a second set screw on the barrel. The Barrel is a Walther "Slow Twist Poly" choked 16mm, The muzzle is fitted with an Air Stripper, can't say for sure if the stripper makes a difference or not but the gun shoots well so I leave it. The front of the stock was cut off for tank clearance, The cheek riser was made from the lid of a "Tote Box" cut and heated and bent into shape and screwed to the gun. The scope is a Hawke Airmax 8-32 that I have to say I am a bit disappointed in, the sight picture is never very sharp and clear in the upper magnification, making it hard to range sometimes.

Gene.

View attachment 182584View attachment 182590

I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes here, I was asked to list the modifications done to the QB78S, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
In regard to the question of "Is it the shooter or the gun?" I believe it has to be both, You can't hit the target consistently if your gun isn't capable of fairly consistent accuracy. Likewise having the most accurate gun in the world doesn't mean anything if it's not pointed in the right direction when the trigger is pulled., (My humble 2 cents.)
I consider myself an average shooter trying to get back into field target shooting after about 10 years away from the sport, I started out shooting an HW77 about 30 years ago and still have that gun, my only other airgun besides the QB78, as you might have guessed I am somewhat of a "tinkerer" but I will be the first to say I'm NOT an expert at anything! but I can usually do okay with most modifications without wrecking the project.
By the way, I wanted to try and get back into the sport this time with a precharged gun, but without spending a lot of money doing it hence the DIY approach, I estimate I have right at $500 into the gun, not including the scope of course.
Thanks for your time.

Gene

 

[qball]

To @thomasair point when someone new to FT sport it's probably best to have a solid foundation or a gun that can be relied upon whether expensive or cheap. Once the skill level at certain point some people get bored and mess around with guns they fixed up. Example, Scott H in CA is a phenomenal shooter! He got so bored beating people like me with a fully modified Diana with 3D printed stock he decided to shoot piston at Oregon State Championship instead for some "challenge". Just like my old example from mountain biking days, I could of easily beat 98% of people up my old local trail with my near 10k race bike but I have more fun beating 95% of people up the same hill with my $50 dollar garage sale special that had only 1 functioning gear. However that took many YEARS to achieve the necessary fitness and riding skills, had I started mountain biking with my $50 garage sale special I would have thrown the POS bike into the trash and never want to mountain bike again!

Back to OP's original question: my opinion from my own personal experience the Thomas is absolutely awesome for HFT, but I still prefer my Crown in wood stock because the ergonomics and weight/balance feels more natural on the shooting sticks to me. WFTF/Open FT is where Thomas just out shines most if not all! With correct attachments/furniture or whatever you would call it fitted to your ergonomics the Thomas chassis is simply phenomenal, couldn't recommend it more.

Like I said, I hope one day I would be good enough to beat most people with a cheap whatever gun just for fun but I got a LONG WAY to go before that could happen. Another way to put it is I hope I'll be good enough one day to shoot a cheap gun.