N/A Fwb 65 variant
- Thread starter houston
- Start date
The trigger guard shape is that of a model 65. and it is plainly marked a model 65. The grips look like those on a model 80. That's about all I can say. No idea if the model 65 was really available with those grips as a factory option.
Here's a link showing some different guns but looking rather quickly I did not see anything to indicate any varients
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery...ols/feinwerkbau-spring-air-pistol-collection/
You might look at the barrel length, there was a short barrel version and there were some with short and long rear tangs, where the rear sight attaches. I am by no means an expert but I think that one has a long tang,
Here's a link showing some different guns but looking rather quickly I did not see anything to indicate any varients
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery...ols/feinwerkbau-spring-air-pistol-collection/
You might look at the barrel length, there was a short barrel version and there were some with short and long rear tangs, where the rear sight attaches. I am by no means an expert but I think that one has a long tang,
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it appears to have a barrel cover which would make it a first variant but the rear sight has been change to a MK 1 or a transition model
it has target grips when added who knows
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ame...279.html?sid=cc79a07654b16dd34524e43a2d23ba3c
here is the best place to look
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/feinwerkbau-pistols/feinwerkbau-modell-65/
i have 2-65's and a 90
it has target grips when added who knows
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ame...279.html?sid=cc79a07654b16dd34524e43a2d23ba3c
here is the best place to look
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/feinwerkbau-pistols/feinwerkbau-modell-65/
i have 2-65's and a 90
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Changes to the 65 over time were minimal. Per the VAG link above, I sorta divide the 65 into three generations, mostly distinguished by the frame casting and sights.
+ "Gen 1:" Rounded front sight housing with fixed integral blade, recessed lettering, short tang, and a short rear sight with interchangeable blades for different notch widths.
+ "Gen 2:" Rounded front sight with interchangeable blade inserts, embossed lettering, short tang, and a longer rear sight with cam-adjusted notch width.
+ "Gen 3:" Angular front sight housing, embossed lettering, long tang, and a wider cammed rear sight. Both sights were shared with the model 80.
The 65's standard grips were actually sport type ones in checkered plastic. Wood sport grips (early checkered, later stippled) and match grips (in two subtly different styles, made in different sizes, and left and right-handed) were all optional upgrades. The nice tapered blued barrel sleeve was also an optional fitting.
Beeman's US marketing of the 65 caused some confusion:
1. He always pushed the match grips. Wood sport grips were a pricey option only. He never even illustrated the basic plastic ones.
2. The accessories offered varied over time..sleeve and clamp-type barrel weights, sport grips came and went.
3. Introduced the "Gen 3" gun in 1981. Long barrel now called the "Mark 1." Shorty "Mark 2" arrived in 1982. These were not factory designations. Beeman implied the short barrel was new, but it had been available in Europe all along.
4. In the late 1990's (after Dr. Beeman sold the company), the LONG barrel suddenly became the "Mark 2" as they cleaned out the warehouse!
The OP's gun is a textbook "Gen 2," with standard barrel, barrel sleeve, and match grips.
To supplement the VAG pics, here are my two: right, "Gen 2" standard 65 with barrel sleeve and match grips; left, "Gen 3" with short barrel and sport grips. Note the differing sights and tang length in particular.
+ "Gen 1:" Rounded front sight housing with fixed integral blade, recessed lettering, short tang, and a short rear sight with interchangeable blades for different notch widths.
+ "Gen 2:" Rounded front sight with interchangeable blade inserts, embossed lettering, short tang, and a longer rear sight with cam-adjusted notch width.
+ "Gen 3:" Angular front sight housing, embossed lettering, long tang, and a wider cammed rear sight. Both sights were shared with the model 80.
The 65's standard grips were actually sport type ones in checkered plastic. Wood sport grips (early checkered, later stippled) and match grips (in two subtly different styles, made in different sizes, and left and right-handed) were all optional upgrades. The nice tapered blued barrel sleeve was also an optional fitting.
Beeman's US marketing of the 65 caused some confusion:
1. He always pushed the match grips. Wood sport grips were a pricey option only. He never even illustrated the basic plastic ones.
2. The accessories offered varied over time..sleeve and clamp-type barrel weights, sport grips came and went.
3. Introduced the "Gen 3" gun in 1981. Long barrel now called the "Mark 1." Shorty "Mark 2" arrived in 1982. These were not factory designations. Beeman implied the short barrel was new, but it had been available in Europe all along.
4. In the late 1990's (after Dr. Beeman sold the company), the LONG barrel suddenly became the "Mark 2" as they cleaned out the warehouse!
The OP's gun is a textbook "Gen 2," with standard barrel, barrel sleeve, and match grips.
To supplement the VAG pics, here are my two: right, "Gen 2" standard 65 with barrel sleeve and match grips; left, "Gen 3" with short barrel and sport grips. Note the differing sights and tang length in particular.
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Hi Mike
this pistol has a barrel cover, so, did the mk1's have barrel covers or just the early ones and this pistol has no grip tang either
it does have the narrow adjustable width rear sight that confuses me
the transition models from 65 to mk1 65 has always been a little confusing
and grips could have been added at any point which take that out of helping date the pistol
the timeline of the model 65 has major changes but what it lacks is the subtle up grades as the pistol moves through manufacturing and if there were upgrades offered to add to the confusion
vintage has many pictures and text and that is why i posted a link
the 80 and 90 are easy the 65 is not and the serial number of this pistol would help i did post that info also
Mike have a nice holiday if a don't see you on a forum again
this pistol has a barrel cover, so, did the mk1's have barrel covers or just the early ones and this pistol has no grip tang either
it does have the narrow adjustable width rear sight that confuses me
the transition models from 65 to mk1 65 has always been a little confusing
and grips could have been added at any point which take that out of helping date the pistol
the timeline of the model 65 has major changes but what it lacks is the subtle up grades as the pistol moves through manufacturing and if there were upgrades offered to add to the confusion
vintage has many pictures and text and that is why i posted a link
the 80 and 90 are easy the 65 is not and the serial number of this pistol would help i did post that info also
Mike have a nice holiday if a don't see you on a forum again
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Hi Mike - I see I am up to my old confusing ways, LOL! I edited the previous post which I hope will help.
I prefer to ignore Beeman's "Mk 1" and "Mk 2" names. FWB themselves always called the standard gun simply "FWB 65," and the shorty "FWB 65 Junior." The two barrel lengths and optional barrel sleeve (made for both barrel lengths) were around for the 65's whole life. Neither is an indicator of when the gun was made.
As noted above, to me there are three main generations of the 65, distinguished mostly by details of the main frame casting, and sights (no doubt you are correct about other, smaller differences in minor components, though - of which I am not an expert).
"Gen 1" = Quite rare, especially in the US. I've never seen one outside of Danny Garvin's VAG site pics which you linked.
"Gen 2" = The most common type by far. The OP's pistol is a "Gen 2."
"Gen 3" = Last version with longest tang, which borrowed sights from the model 80.
Here are more pics of mine which may help:
"Gen 2" with long barrel, barrel sleeve, and match grips. Serial 65360, made about 1974.
"Gen 3" with short barrel and sport grips. Serial 130449, made about 1985.
I prefer to ignore Beeman's "Mk 1" and "Mk 2" names. FWB themselves always called the standard gun simply "FWB 65," and the shorty "FWB 65 Junior." The two barrel lengths and optional barrel sleeve (made for both barrel lengths) were around for the 65's whole life. Neither is an indicator of when the gun was made.
As noted above, to me there are three main generations of the 65, distinguished mostly by details of the main frame casting, and sights (no doubt you are correct about other, smaller differences in minor components, though - of which I am not an expert).
"Gen 1" = Quite rare, especially in the US. I've never seen one outside of Danny Garvin's VAG site pics which you linked.
"Gen 2" = The most common type by far. The OP's pistol is a "Gen 2."
"Gen 3" = Last version with longest tang, which borrowed sights from the model 80.
Here are more pics of mine which may help:
"Gen 2" with long barrel, barrel sleeve, and match grips. Serial 65360, made about 1974.
"Gen 3" with short barrel and sport grips. Serial 130449, made about 1985.
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Mike what are the chances of many FWB 65's in the states that didn't go through Beemen
in the time period there was no internet, it was phone or mail sales and there was not a lot of people buying pricey air pistols
the pictures above one short and in the later years and one long
main difference is the frame of course but the front sight shape, being round and with a barrel sleeve
i have 2 65's and both are Beeman marked and no barrel sleeve and i was under the impression that the barrel sleeve was on the early models
it is funny no matter how much you know, you know just a fraction of the history of a gun or line of guns and you have been at longer than i
you keep learning but you can never catch up and at 73 i am slowing down but still learning
i will have to find the 65 rabbit hole now
take care
mike
in the time period there was no internet, it was phone or mail sales and there was not a lot of people buying pricey air pistols
the pictures above one short and in the later years and one long
main difference is the frame of course but the front sight shape, being round and with a barrel sleeve
i have 2 65's and both are Beeman marked and no barrel sleeve and i was under the impression that the barrel sleeve was on the early models
it is funny no matter how much you know, you know just a fraction of the history of a gun or line of guns and you have been at longer than i
you keep learning but you can never catch up and at 73 i am slowing down but still learning
i will have to find the 65 rabbit hole now
take care
mike
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Well Mike your comments got me curious! So I dug through my old Beeman catalogs, and realized I undersold the Doc a little (at my age I should NEVER write without checking references...sheesh). Some quick observations...
+ Early Beeman catalogs: "Gen 2" FWB 65, no special name. Long barrel only. Sport and match grip styles offered.
+ Catalog 6 (1978): FWB 80 introduced.
+ Catalog 8A (1981): "Gen 3" 65 introduced, called the "Mark 1." Long barrel only. Long tang, wider rear sight, and double mainsprings touted as improvements (all these were shared with the model 80).
+ Catalog 10 (1982): "Gen 3" 65 with short barrel introduced, called the "Mark 2." Both barrel lengths, both grip styles, and barrel sleeve weights as options.
+ Catalog 11 (1983): The main illustration is the shorty "Mark 2," but "Mark 1" still available. Sport grips dropped but barrel sleeves still offered. (Beeman kept this presentation of the 65 for many years - he really pushed the short barrel and match grips.)
+ Catalog 14 (1986): Same, but the short sleeve weight discontinued and replaced by a clamped-on cast one.
+ Catalog 19 (1995): First catalog after Dr. Beeman sold the company. Only "Mark 2" shorty offered, and only with match grips. All accessories dropped.
+ Catalog 21 (1998): Here's the collector's nightmare for ya. They must have been cleaning the last guns out of the warehouse. ONLY the long barrel is pictured, and it's now called the "Mark 2"...!
I forgot the "Gen 3" guns had appeared so early, and had been Beeman's mainstay for so long. He consistently used the "Mark" numbers for them too, but again - not related to FWB's own nomenclature or accessory offerings.
One minor detail: Beeman's catalog photos consistently show the earlier style rounded front sight housing on his "Mark 1" and "Mark 2" guns. But my gun has the angular FWB 80 type, as do all "Gen 3" guns in the VAG site's photos.
Couple more pics...the clamp-on cast weight for the short barrel, and a better comparison of "Gen 2" and "Gen 3" sights. The latter is 38 mm wide and a better cant reference for match shooting, but tends to catch on your clothes! I prefer the earlier 25 mm wide one for sporting use.
+ Early Beeman catalogs: "Gen 2" FWB 65, no special name. Long barrel only. Sport and match grip styles offered.
+ Catalog 6 (1978): FWB 80 introduced.
+ Catalog 8A (1981): "Gen 3" 65 introduced, called the "Mark 1." Long barrel only. Long tang, wider rear sight, and double mainsprings touted as improvements (all these were shared with the model 80).
+ Catalog 10 (1982): "Gen 3" 65 with short barrel introduced, called the "Mark 2." Both barrel lengths, both grip styles, and barrel sleeve weights as options.
+ Catalog 11 (1983): The main illustration is the shorty "Mark 2," but "Mark 1" still available. Sport grips dropped but barrel sleeves still offered. (Beeman kept this presentation of the 65 for many years - he really pushed the short barrel and match grips.)
+ Catalog 14 (1986): Same, but the short sleeve weight discontinued and replaced by a clamped-on cast one.
+ Catalog 19 (1995): First catalog after Dr. Beeman sold the company. Only "Mark 2" shorty offered, and only with match grips. All accessories dropped.
+ Catalog 21 (1998): Here's the collector's nightmare for ya. They must have been cleaning the last guns out of the warehouse. ONLY the long barrel is pictured, and it's now called the "Mark 2"...!
I forgot the "Gen 3" guns had appeared so early, and had been Beeman's mainstay for so long. He consistently used the "Mark" numbers for them too, but again - not related to FWB's own nomenclature or accessory offerings.
One minor detail: Beeman's catalog photos consistently show the earlier style rounded front sight housing on his "Mark 1" and "Mark 2" guns. But my gun has the angular FWB 80 type, as do all "Gen 3" guns in the VAG site's photos.
Couple more pics...the clamp-on cast weight for the short barrel, and a better comparison of "Gen 2" and "Gen 3" sights. The latter is 38 mm wide and a better cant reference for match shooting, but tends to catch on your clothes! I prefer the earlier 25 mm wide one for sporting use.
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thanks Mike that took a lot of time to do
the fact is there is some grey area to he pistols that made it to the states and with Beeman being the driving force here he got what he what
but the rest of the world got what FWB wanted
i am heavy on Dynamit Nobel catalogs but not Beeman or even thought about looking at them for knowledge
in any case you have helped me better understand the timeline and i hope others
as have said many times before part of this hobby is to learn about things that you have and don't have
and i can count on you Mike for knowledge i do not have and i thank you for that
take care my friend
mike in Washington state
the fact is there is some grey area to he pistols that made it to the states and with Beeman being the driving force here he got what he what
but the rest of the world got what FWB wanted
i am heavy on Dynamit Nobel catalogs but not Beeman or even thought about looking at them for knowledge
in any case you have helped me better understand the timeline and i hope others
as have said many times before part of this hobby is to learn about things that you have and don't have
and i can count on you Mike for knowledge i do not have and i thank you for that
take care my friend
mike in Washington state
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Mike, you have a knack for asking about things I need to study more!
Hope you have a great holiday season.
Hope you have a great holiday season.
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knowledge is something in this hobby that is hard to get to the community
opinion rules the day but facts are facts and being a person that like the truth, i love facts
i will form a question on Google and read what is offered, some is old, some has our names on it because we have chewed on the same topic but then you start to read post that contradict the information and without the knowledge to sort it out you dismiss all of it and look some more but the answer can be hard to find and if you spend all that time and decide this or that is right, is it
there is just too much history to wade through
i for one have never gotten into the Sheridan and Benjamin world because it is too vast and as a rabbit hole too deep, the same can be said of the Crosman 100 series rifles
i would tell people i know a little about a lot but not a lot about a little, it is a fair statement and i can live with that
be well and if we do not cross paths before the holidays have a great one
and sorry to others that this turned in to just two men talking i am sorry
mike in the very rainy Seattle area
opinion rules the day but facts are facts and being a person that like the truth, i love facts
i will form a question on Google and read what is offered, some is old, some has our names on it because we have chewed on the same topic but then you start to read post that contradict the information and without the knowledge to sort it out you dismiss all of it and look some more but the answer can be hard to find and if you spend all that time and decide this or that is right, is it
there is just too much history to wade through
i for one have never gotten into the Sheridan and Benjamin world because it is too vast and as a rabbit hole too deep, the same can be said of the Crosman 100 series rifles
i would tell people i know a little about a lot but not a lot about a little, it is a fair statement and i can live with that
be well and if we do not cross paths before the holidays have a great one
and sorry to others that this turned in to just two men talking i am sorry
mike in the very rainy Seattle area
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