FWB FWB P85 Multi Shot

Cool!

Questions if you would:

1. How does the magazine advance? Trigger pull? Air power?
2. Is there air release with dry fire?

THanks! Kim
1. The magazine is spring loaded and is automatically indexed for each pull of the trigger.
2. With the training magazine installed, the pistol works as semi-auto and a little burst of air is released. With no magazine installed, you can still cock the action and get a trigger pull, but you will have to cock the action for each pull of the trigger, and no air is released.
 
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It depends on what you are adjusting. Adjusting the weight of the first stage and pressure point is easy. Other adjustments are more demanding due to the complexity of the semi-auto action.
It feels different than FWBs singe shot pistols. And it's way better than FWBs earlier 5-shot pistols. The rumors were that the P85 trigger was as good as the P8X trigger (which in my opinion is the best mechanical trigger you can get). Well, it's not that good, but it's still good enough for single shot precision shooting. (y)
 
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No chrony or accuracy test yet. But I have worked on the trigger to get it to the feel I like, and it's way better than any 5-shot pistol FWB has made before. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with the LP50 yet, but I emptied one air cylinder yesterday (in the ball park of 150 pellets) and the trigger feels good for both single shot and rapid shooting. I will say it's at least as good as the LP50 trigger. Probably better, as I recall the LP50 trigger to have a little more creep.
A red dot can be mounted on the rail the rear sight is mounted on, but you will probably need to make a custom mount as the cocking lever is in the way when it's operated.
A mount for the barrel shroud would be more appropriate, but that will also call for a custom mount as I don't think such a mount is commercially available.
 
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As you can see, you can mount a rail where the rear sight usually sits, but the rail must be narrow and stick out a good distance forward so as not to conflict with the cocking lever. To 3D print such a mount is easy, but the question is how stable it will be. I feel that this should be made of aluminum. But if the demand is large enough, someone will probably make a commercial solution.

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I got to do some quick testing today. (y)


The average muzzle velocity of 20 pellets (RWS Meisterkuglen 0.53g):
FWB P85 -> 145.2 ms / 476.3 fps.
For reference:
Steyr LP5 -> 145.3 ms /476.7 fps
Steyr LP50 C -> 131.2 ms / 430.4 fps


The following measurement of noise is the average of 10 shots:
FWB P85 -> 78.9 dB
For reference:
FWB P8X -> 81.4 dB
Steyr LP5 -> 78.5 dB
Steyr LP50 C -> 79.5 dB

Be aware that I don't have fancy and expensive equipment for measuring noise, just a cheap device from UNI-T, but I don't think the results are way off.
 
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Picked up the P85 today. I haven't had the time to try it out yet, except for training mode. Hopefully I can give it a proper test on Thursday. 🥳👍
The trigger needs some adjustment before it gets anywhere near what I'm used to, the first stage is way too light for my liking.
But that's just adjustments... 🙂

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nice score , i think i speak for most serious target shooters like very light triggers . My own Morini trigger is set where my finger just barley touches the trigger. this is a "less tension thing " the more force you must excert the more tension it takes and you just might pull your sights off POA .
 
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Thanks. :)
I must keep my pistols within the 10mm ISSF air pistol regulations, where the minimum trigger weight is 500 grams. I like that the first stage is relatively heavy (400 to 430 grams), so I don't have to squeeze the trigger that much harder when I'm at the trigger point and on target. This is directly related to having good control over the aiming and the sights, and get a good trigger pull without using to much time, and still be within the ISSF regulations. (y)
 
That looks like a proper 11mm rail that the rear sight is mounted on (?). As you state, the cocking arm looks very close if trying to install a red dot or scope. Probably doable with a little thought. There doesn't appear to be a good place on the barrel shroud for a mount (?)


The velocity seems a little low: 476fps @ 8.2g = 5.59j or 4.13 ft lbs. Is the 7.5j an "up to" rating? From your pics it appears to have a velocity adjustment on the back just below the rear sight mount.

150 shots is quite efficient. Is that with a 200 BAR fill? I'm sure it's tied to the velocity but still!

That is a beautiful pistol, especially with the laminate grip! The grip has some silver and black elements to it that really complement the body of the pistol and the air cylinder!

Yours is the only one I've seen in the hands of a consumer. I look forward to more exposure through videos and forum discussions.

Any updates?
 
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That looks like a proper 11mm rail that the rear sight is mounted on (?). As you state, the cocking arm looks very close if trying to install a red dot or scope. Probably doable with a little thought. There doesn't appear to be a good place on the barrel shroud for a mount (?)

The rail measures 11.6mm across the top, a little wider than the standard 11mm rail. And as you can see from the picture below, it can be done, but not the best fit and the mount must be place far back to make sure the cocking lever can be operated. As for the shroud, it can be removed and you can clamp a mount to the barrel (barrel diameter ø12mm). That is probably the best way to mount an optic sight at the moment. But it seems to be a great interest for this pistol, so I guess someone will make a suitable rail in not too long.

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The velocity seems a little low: 476fps @ 8.2g = 5.59j or 4.13 ft lbs. Is the 7.5j an "up to" rating? From your pics it appears to have a velocity adjustment on the back just below the rear sight mount.

150 shots is quite efficient. Is that with a 200 BAR fill? I'm sure it's tied to the velocity but still!

The velocity is where it usually is with ISSF 10m match pistols, between 140ms/460fps and 150ms/490fps. Commercials often claim a little more, but in reality a muzzle energy of 5.5j with 0.53 gram pellets is quite common for those pistols. The Steyr LP50 have just the same performance. The LP50 RF (7.5j) puts out some more, and the LP50 HP (12j) quite a lot more, but at a great expense of the shot count.

The screw at the back is most probably the screw for adjusting the hammer spring. I don't know how much you can gain in velocity by turning it in, but from experience with FWBs earlier 5-shot pistols, Steyrs LP5 and LP50, and a few other similar pistols, it's best to leave it where it comes from the factory. You can probably gain a little more muzzle velocity, but at the same time you will probably also affect the reliability of the semi-auto action. If you want more power you usually need to adjust more parameters at the same time (regulator pressure, hammer spring, choke screw etc.). Those 4.5mm semi-auto pistols are finely tuned mechanics that have sweet spots for functioning and are vulnerable to major changes in settings.
The 7.5j might be an "up to" rating. Drop FWB a line about it, and I'm sure you get an answer. :)
I haven't done any changes to my P85, except for trigger adjustment, as it performs exactly as I want for my use. :) 👍
Feinwerkbau has announced a 11j version, and if you want more power I strongly recommend you to wait for that one to be released. ;)

That is a beautiful pistol, especially with the laminate grip! The grip has some silver and black elements to it that really complement the body of the pistol and the air cylinder!

Yours is the only one I've seen in the hands of a consumer. I look forward to more exposure through videos and forum discussions.

Any updates?

The laminated grip looks much better in real life than in pictures. ;)

I need to put a few thousand pellets through it before I can come up with a verdict, but it looks very promising. So far I'm very happy with it. :)
 
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The P85 is a direct competitor to the Steyr LP50, intended for ISSF 10m 5-shot air pistol programs, and as a training option for reasonable volume training for rimfire and centerfire programs.

In terms of power, no ISSF 10m air pistols are made with power in mind, they are designed to be easy to shoot accurately with. The chosen muzzle velocity is a compromise between several factors (shot count, muzzle flip, time from the trigger is pulled to the pellet leaving the muzzle etc.), and most manufacturers have found that between 140ms and 150ms is the optimal muzzle velocity for best overall performance. If you want more power, Steyr has their HP version of the LP50, and FWB will eventually release an HP version (11 joules) of the P85, that I assume will have a muzzle velocity of around 200ms/655fps.

In terms of the trigger, the trigger is by no means bad! It's more than good enough for single shot target shooting. It's probably the best trigger on a 5-shot pistol so far, but it's not quite up there with the Steyr EVO 10, FWB P8X and Pardini K12 triggers. I haven't had time yet to do a proper comparison between the P85 and the LP50, so I can't for sure tell if the P85 trigger is a little better or much better than the LP50 trigger, or if they just have a different feel to them.

Is it worth it?
I shoot programs that require a multi shot pistol, and air pistols in general are one of my interests and hobbies.
I'm an engineer by profession, and mechanical devices have been my interest all my life. New pistols to explore and get to know are always exciting.
So yes, for me it's worth it. But YMMW ...
 
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Thanks Helmet

My main pistol shooting interest in US bullseye - 22 /45 slow and rapid fire. I can shoot my P44 ~20yd at home and find it is good training for slow fire. My curiosity is whether a P85 can be used to train rapid-fire rimfire, etc, and if so how analogous this training would be. Part of my love of the P44 is the exquisite trigger, and reports of how the Steyr multi-shot triggers are put me off.
 
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The Steyr LP50 trigger isn't bad. It just isn't quite as good as the best triggers on single shot pistols. Personally I have no problems using the LP50 for precision target shooting. I might loose a few points in a 60-shot match, but it won't be a dramatic difference.
The best thing would be if you could test these guns your self, but I guess that might not be very easy to do?
 
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There is lots of discussion on the value of the LP50 as a training aid for Bullseye (mainly Rapid Fire and Timed Fire) on TargetTalk and the Bullseye-L forums. Just do a search for LP50.
There are several options for the LP50 trigger to mimic the 2# limit for .22lr, 2-1/2# for centerfire and 3-1/2 # for .45. There are also grips options to imitate the 1911. It is also easy to install a red dot or scope. The coming of the Action line of accessories will only heighten it's versatility.

I hope the P85 will evolve along the same lines, time will tell.