FX Dreamline POI shifts -HELP

[Ghostranger169]

A few years back I had a POI shift with my Dreamline and a friend told me to add a barrel band. If that didn't work add another barrel band and if that didn't work add another barrel band. Mine only needed 2 barrel bands. Fixed it well enough for me to take 5th at AZ state FT match a few years back.
Thx
Dan

Excellent point. The internal spacers shifting is NOT the only source of significant POI shifts(there is a post about all the different possible reasons for POI shifts) with FX liner/shroud guns OR OTHER airguns.
I tend to define significant POI shift as the gun no longer shoots close to where I'm aiming-
At a close distance(25 to 30yards)
In known conditions(same bench/targetrange, comparable weather conditions, same ammo, scope, chronographed speed, etc ...)
As compared to where it had been hitting consistently before
And without "changing" anything

With respect to the shroud spacers moving, by removing shroud and inspecting, I was able to:
1)-establish a correlation between the POI shift and their movement to a different place on the liner(usually more toward the breech)
2)- see restoration of consistent POI by correction with carbon fiber sleeve

However, of all the calibers in FX Dreamline/Crown guns(.177/.22/.25) I have owned, the .177s were BY FAR the most "finicky" to achieve the consistent accuracy/precision that I find acceptable. I couldn't ever find a combination(barrel length, pellet/slug, speed, etc...) of .177 FX Dreamline or Crown that could match my old Brocock Bantam .177, which can put 3 magazines of a number of different pellets or slugs in a dime at 25 yards even if I dropped it on the floor and kicked it into a wall(I actually did that).
Of all the liner lengths(300/320/380/500/600/700mm) that I have used in FX Dreamlines and Crowns( in all calibers- .177/.22/.25), for some reason, I have had MUCH more difficulty getting CONSISTENT accuracy/precision results of of the 500mm, regardless of caliber. Maybe the length is a poor one for the harmonics of the barrel at the power levels/projectile weights, or maybe it's just bad luck, I don't know.

 

[JimD]

You can fully discount wind from my complaint, I've been shooting .177 for many decades. Before I cry "POI shift" I make sure that I shoot the gun in a no wind environment, ie. indoors.
You can leave the different brand of ammo out of the equation as well: I have tried 10.3gr Premiers, 8.3gr JSB's & AA, all with 4.51, 4.52 & 4.53mm diameters.
Assume for the exercise that I am very methodical in my techniques, I am an experienced shooter, both air, rimfire & center fire. I have loaded for & hunted with more calibers than most folk know exist. I have hunted extensively on two continents with ammo that I have loaded & guns that I have tuned.
Read Ghostranger169's last post thread, the man hits the nail on the head. This light liner/shroud set up is the issue, it's not made for accuracy or consistent grouping. UA said they'd glue the spacers in, let's see!

I was not an am not trying to be insulting. Thanks for the wind information, I agree shooting indoors rules that out. You did not mention trying any H&N pellets, however. I know a lot of people think JSB are always better but they are not in my guns. I compared weight and head size variation and in both attributes H&N are if anything more consistent than similar weight JSBs. But they may not shoot well in your FX. I'm glad Utah Air is helping. I found them a little slow to respond to an issue with the one gun I've purchased there but they were consistently good to deal with otherwise.

 

[bsahogger]

I was not an am not trying to be insulting. Thanks for the wind information, I agree shooting indoors rules that out. You did not mention trying any H&N pellets, however. I know a lot of people think JSB are always better but they are not in my guns. I compared weight and head size variation and in both attributes H&N are if anything more consistent than similar weight JSBs. But they may not shoot well in your FX. I'm glad Utah Air is helping. I found them a little slow to respond to an issue with the one gun I've purchased there but they were consistently good to deal with otherwise.

No no, no offense taken at all, just wanted to fill in the gaps. The pellets that I've tried have all been very consistent in headsize, I use a micrometer to check batches; the AA & JSB pellets are very consistent, if the box says 4.43mm, that's what they mic at (small flyers here & there obviously). The group sizes we're talking about here ain't going to get fixed with different pellets either, they are way out there. Then the POI shifts, which IMO have never had anything to do with ammo (if the ammo is consistent in weight & size), that's usually something that moves like a loose ring, loose barrel, loose action screws etc. (also consider that in my case velocity is extremely consistent, so rule out regulator or other power supply issue).
Again, all factors point to a latent defect in the Dreamline, in order to make a 'cheap' gun they engineered the barrel assembly very very badly. Every time you shoot the air pushes against those flimsy little liner spacers, which means the liner moves in relation to the shroud. Shameful for the FX brand.

 

[Vetmx]

I am not pointing fingers at any individuals, but I must comment on a common theme I’ve been seeing since probably Covid times. Guys with big P lists of their firearm accomplishments and qualifications seem to struggle with FX’s. But I believe most of them know the issue because it’s just one thing, the barrel. The solution is simple. Either build a real barrel if you have the means or correct what is obviously wrong with the stock barrel. That means glue and tightening all tolerances.

I only use the stock barrel on 2 of the 5 FX guns I own. Both are .22’s. The DRS is fine but my 500mm M3 was not. I have a process of machining and bonding done to that gun and it’s pretty good. Another member here goes a step beyond what I do and seems happy. Its just unfortunate we have to do this to such expensive guns and I completely understand why a guy wouldn’t. No matter what his qualifications are.

I like the guy stacking barrel bands. That’s smart and if it works would definitely allow you to not treat it like a piece of china. I also am very intrigued about the barrel lengths and calibers. It would be real hard to confirm but after all the testing I’ve done over the years, it could hold water. Or at least some water. But personally I believe it’s mainly harmonics and inconsistent fit. If all those liner lengths were pressed into a 14mm solid steel housing, I think they all would shoot fine.

 

[Joedirt199]

I can say that I was dealing with wondering POIs on my 2 new to me used Dreamline Compacts. I was able to tap the barrel in 4 directions 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock and get the impact to move opposite of the bump. When I took some of the orings off the shroud ends and secured the liner spacers to stay in place, the barrel responded better to getting bumped. It seemed like you could never really get a tight shroud when tightening against an oring. Now there is a dead stop when tightening. I was shooting in the basement so wind was not a factor. I could shoot tiny groups, just the impact of the pellet would land opposite the direction that I bumped the muzzle. Had to sort it out as just taking the gun out of a case was moving the groups around.

 

[bsahogger]

I am not pointing fingers at any individuals, but I must comment on a common theme I’ve been seeing since probably Covid times. Guys with big P lists of their firearm accomplishments and qualifications seem to struggle with FX’s. But I believe most of them know the issue because it’s just one thing, the barrel. The solution is simple. Either build a real barrel if you have the means or correct what is obviously wrong with the stock barrel. That means glue and tightening all tolerances.

I only use the stock barrel on 2 of the 5 FX guns I own. Both are .22’s. The DRS is fine but my 500mm M3 was not. I have a process of machining and bonding done to that gun and it’s pretty good. Another member here goes a step beyond what I do and seems happy. Its just unfortunate we have to do this to such expensive guns and I completely understand why a guy wouldn’t. No matter what his qualifications are.

I like the guy stacking barrel bands. That’s smart and if it works would definitely allow you to not treat it like a piece of china. I also am very intrigued about the barrel lengths and calibers. It would be real hard to confirm but after all the testing I’ve done over the years, it could hold water. Or at least some water. But personally I believe it’s mainly harmonics and inconsistent fit. If all those liner lengths were pressed into a 14mm solid steel housing, I think they all would shoot fine.

"it’s just one thing, the barrel. The solution is simple. Either build a real barrel if you have the means or correct what is obviously wrong with the stock barrel. That means glue and tightening all tolerances." It's like buying a brand new sports car but in order to have it drive straight you have to weld supports onto the suspension arms, or better yet, pay for aftermarket suspension. Except that if this was the automotive world there'd be a class action lawsuit, a recall, then FX would have to re-enigneer their little wagon wheel spacers & have things work correctly, as advertised, for the money you paid.

 

[bsahogger]

Just received an email from UA, (they now have the gun) their planned solution to this is to superglue the spacers to the liner. I am totally bummed out, I cannot believe that there is so much hype around FX guns, yet this is the build quality. The gun has a latent defect, a superglue fix just blows me away.

 

[Joedirt199]

I would use duct tape to keep them in place. I got a used barrel with a glued one and it broke. Had to scrape off the glue and replace the spacer. Easier fix with tape than glue.

 

[SilentSquirrel]

I would use duct tape to keep them in place. I got a used barrel with a glued one and it broke. Had to scrape off the glue and replace the spacer. Easier fix with tape than glue.

Agreed!
No super glue

UTAH seems to be taking a shot in the dark on this
Remember please, that they have not been the servicer of FX for very long.
And are without the institutional knowledge that the comes from a long history of working with the brand

IMO this is a good example of how experts such as Ernest Rowe and Newman Buck can be very helpful.
And also, a plus for the knowledge found in the forums, especially AGN

 

[bsahogger]

Agreed!
No super glue

UTAH seems to be taking a shot in the dark on this
Remember please, that they have not been the servicer of FX for very long.
And are without the institutional knowledge that the comes from a long history of working with the brand

IMO this is a good example of how experts such as Ernest Rowe and Newman Buck can be very helpful.
And also, a plus for the knowledge found in the forums, especially AGN

I posted earlier in this thread about using duct tape, I tried it: more poi shifts & very large groups. Can't believe the words "duct tape" & "superglue" are part of the conversation when discussing guns that are supposedly "high end", I'm beyond shocked.

 

[Joedirt199]

I had some fish tank air tubing that also fit the barrel and have used that to keep the spacers in place. Just cut off little .25" lengths and slid them on.

 

[bsahogger]

I had some fish tank air tubing that also fit the barrel and have used that to keep the spacers in place. Just cut off little .25" lengths and slid them on.

Does it affect accuracy? Does it fix the POI shifts for good or just temporarily?

 

[Joedirt199]

I haven't had any poi changes after taking the orings off the ends of the shroud connections. I snug the barrel retention nut, barrel set screws and shroud down pretty tight. I only have 2 dreamtacs to compare. One with 300mm and the other with 500mm barrels. The compact has the liner sleeve glued, the 500 has no sleeve.

 

[bsahogger]

I haven't had any poi changes after taking the orings off the ends of the shroud connections. I snug the barrel retention nut, barrel set screws and shroud down pretty tight. I only have 2 dreamtacs to compare. One with 300mm and the other with 500mm barrels. The compact has the liner sleeve glued, the 500 has no sleeve.

If I knew that the Dreamline had this defect I never would've bought it. One expects this from a Marauder or any of the other $500 guns, but FX? Blown away.

 

[CurtisNelson]

If I knew that the Dreamline had this defect I never would've bought it. One expects this from a Marauder or any of the other $500 guns, but FX? Blown away.

I have a dreamline lite bottle gun in .177 that just would not group well past 40 yards. (Gave up and bought a BRK Commander, great gun), then talked to FXUSA about it. Showed them my spreadsheet with all the Chrony numbers and various Reg/Hammer spring combos I'd tried and group pictures. They agreed that I had a bad barrel and sent me an entire barrel assembly under warranty. Still need to Shoot it to verify the improvement, but I'm busy running FT matches and shooting EFT also. Love the dreamline, probably will keep it.

 

[bsahogger]

I have a dreamline lite bottle gun in .177 that just would not group well past 40 yards. (Gave up and bought a BRK Commander, great gun), then talked to FXUSA about it. Showed them my spreadsheet with all the Chrony numbers and various Reg/Hammer spring combos I'd tried and group pictures. They agreed that I had a bad barrel and sent me an entire barrel assembly under warranty. Still need to Shoot it to verify the improvement, but I'm busy running FT matches and shooting EFT also. Love the dreamline, probably will keep it.

Luckeee. UA just told me that FX isn't interested in doing anything about this since their failure rate is only about 2% worldwide. More like 100% failure rate due to the poor design, most folk just don't know any better & the ones that do go for the duct tape/CF tubing patches.

 

[SilentSquirrel]

Dreamline Classic .177 in Saber Tactical stock; Rowan single shot tray. Gun is 6 months old, only about 500 pelllets through it, got it from Utah Airguns. I've reached out a few times to them, crickets, no reply. POI shifts after every +- 30 shots, up to about an inch, left, right, up, down, basically all around the clock:
- Checked action screws, all tight
-Barrel feels tight in action
-Brand new Hawke scope, rings tight
-Velocity constant 898-903fps from 220bar down to 150bar; 10.3gr Premiers
-Removed barrel band, issue still there
-Removed material above the picatinny rail on fore end so that rail doesn't touch air tube, issue still there

Any ideas? POI shifts are my pet hate, if I can't get this thing to shoot consistentlly it'll be the end of the FX chapter for me.

I have read this entire thread
But went back tonight to see when the gun was bought and from who
And now assume you bought it new from UTAH, not pre-owned

If this were my heartbreak to deal with, I'd be on the phone with them making a warranty claim, getting an RMA number, and politely insisting on getting a new rifle.
Maybe, just maybe, accepting a compromise of this rifle with a new, fully tested barrel
And if they tried any avoidance tactics the words "I want my money back" would cross my lips

Think about it for a moment.
With all the remedies you have tried, is there any other conclusion to come to?

I sincerely hope you get this resolved to your (not anyone else's) satisfaction

Good luck
Edward

PS
Have you inspeted barrel's crown?

 

[Vetmx]

If I knew that the Dreamline had this defect I never would've bought it. One expects this from a Marauder or any of the other $500 guns, but FX? Blown away.

You have every right to feel the way you do. I have seen it a thousand times and that just might not be an exaggeration. I’ve also said this probably 100 times. The information about these guns, not just FX but most guns is as easily found as the BS fluff pieces that sell these guns. Guys fall for or only absorb the good when looking for their new toy. When reality strikes, they finally wind up on the forum. Then the smoke magically clears, honeymoon cut short, seeking an annulment.

 

[Dairyboy]

You have every right to feel the way you do. I have seen it a thousand times and that just might not be an exaggeration. I’ve also said this probably 100 times. The information about these guns, not just FX but most guns is as easily found as the BS fluff pieces that sell these guns. Guys fall for or only absorb the good when looking for their new toy. When reality strikes, they finally wind up on the forum. Then the smoke magically clears, honeymoon cut short, seeking an annulment.

The biggest problem is the paid for commercials whoops I mean "reviews" where issues like this are never shown. People see all the good all over youtube and then once it's not up to par come on forums and realize the reality of not being very sturdy. It's unfortunate

 

[CurtisNelson]

Good luck
Edward

PS
Have you inspected barrel's crown?

Exactly,
Recrowning was the next step I was looking at when FX sent me a new barrel. I will def. do that to the old barrel when I get time.