Tuning FX Impact M3 35 cal power destiny
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Awesome work you have put in. I can share my results with the M3 in .35 and I know a few others have the .35 as well and we have been pm each other with our results. As you have noted not many have or post about the .35. I have sent emails to FX about the heavy liner for shooting slugs and have told they are working on perfecting it at this time although the .35 platform has been out for over a year.
I installed the NSA probe but have since removed it because I didn't see any real gains from it at the present time: I'm waiting for the slug liner to use it. As far as settings go I have been able to get the JSB 81gr up to 916fps and gave the tune in the tune thread for M3. When i tried to shoot with the nsa pin probe the rifle had a weird sound so i switched back to the regular probe and didn't see any loss in fps. When at the range the initial groups at the higher fps were terrible and I ended up dropping the fps to @870fps with the jsb pellets and groups at 100 yards were great.
As with you I need the higher fpe but don't want to try the 93gr NSA's until the slug liner is available.
I installed the NSA probe but have since removed it because I didn't see any real gains from it at the present time: I'm waiting for the slug liner to use it. As far as settings go I have been able to get the JSB 81gr up to 916fps and gave the tune in the tune thread for M3. When i tried to shoot with the nsa pin probe the rifle had a weird sound so i switched back to the regular probe and didn't see any loss in fps. When at the range the initial groups at the higher fps were terrible and I ended up dropping the fps to @870fps with the jsb pellets and groups at 100 yards were great.
As with you I need the higher fpe but don't want to try the 93gr NSA's until the slug liner is available.
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I currently have the NSA slug probe installed. I noticed maybe a 10 fps gain with it off the get go, so it was pretty disappointing, but I like the design of it over the pellet probe. The side set screw in the pellet probe and the small pin are the only thing keeping it from flying back at your shoulder. The NSA is threaded in with a threaded bolt behind it. I used blue locktite to keep it from moving once set in place.
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Tune was 1st reg @150 and 2nd reg was at 129 macro at 16 , micro at 4.5 and valve adjuster at 5 and JSB 81gr at 870fps.
I went back to the drawing table and decided to just wait on playing with the .35 until all the correct components are available. I just, yesterday, changed to the 700mm .22 because it gets frustrating trying to tune without having all the proper tools...ie heavy liner for shooting the heavy slugs. Was at the range yesterday and the .35 is awesome at 50 yards and in with the JSB's but I with pellet inventory low and the slugs not grouping like I believe they can I put it away.
I may try the .35 in my MK2 and see how it does in that rifle with different internals.
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That tune is very similar to what I found with the 35 and JSB's. Only real difference is I set the 1st reg slightly lower to about 145 bar. It seemed to help a little on reg creep. I adjusted the valve adjuster in until I was getting around 858 to 860 consistently. After the gun sat for a bit, the shot would be low 850's
I agree with you on the .35 needing a slug liner and can't wait until one is released. I have managed to get the NSA's under and inch at 50 yards. I know it is not the same as a 100 yards, but it was definately an improvement. At first they were 2+" groups.
Currently my goal is to get to the guns peak performance, energy wise, so I am no longer shooting for groups. Once I get the 93 grain NSA slugs up there, I will begin reshooting for groups at various levels. The most I have gotten out of the NSA's so far was 835 fps. The best accuracy I have seen so far with them was around 825 to 830 fps.
Like mentioned earlier, I have read of people getting 870 to 900 fps with mk2 and NSA's. The M3 is rated slightly higher, so I am trying to figure out how to get there.
I agree with you on the .35 needing a slug liner and can't wait until one is released. I have managed to get the NSA's under and inch at 50 yards. I know it is not the same as a 100 yards, but it was definately an improvement. At first they were 2+" groups.
Currently my goal is to get to the guns peak performance, energy wise, so I am no longer shooting for groups. Once I get the 93 grain NSA slugs up there, I will begin reshooting for groups at various levels. The most I have gotten out of the NSA's so far was 835 fps. The best accuracy I have seen so far with them was around 825 to 830 fps.
Like mentioned earlier, I have read of people getting 870 to 900 fps with mk2 and NSA's. The M3 is rated slightly higher, so I am trying to figure out how to get there.
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I'm going to install the .35 kit on my MK2. My MK2 has the slug power kit so I want to see how it does with the .35.
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Has anyone tried NSA .356 and .358's in 93 grain?
I have only used the .357's and am down to my last 100, so I will be waiting for more. I have another 12 tins of JSB's en route. Most my testing will be with JSB's in the mean time. If I see a noticeable velocity increase, I will check it with the NSA's for comparison.
I have only used the .357's and am down to my last 100, so I will be waiting for more. I have another 12 tins of JSB's en route. Most my testing will be with JSB's in the mean time. If I see a noticeable velocity increase, I will check it with the NSA's for comparison.
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Well, I was able to get out and test my M3 .35 this morning, after lowering Reg2 to 135 bar. Gun is totally stock, except it wears a DFL Emperor when I shoot it in my back yard.
81 gr pellets had been traveling at 860 fps for me with my previous settings (Reg1-150/Reg2 - 140 bar). I only changed Reg2 to 135 bar, and ended up closing the valve adjuster knob by 3/4 turn. That immediately gave me a 20 fps speed bump to 880 fps, and it will give me maybe a couple more shots per fill before I fall off the reg.
I did test some of the 82 gr H&N Grizzly slugs this morning. Didn't do too much, they chrono'd at 864 fps without changing any gun settings, and they didn't seem very accurate. Will need some more work with those to see if I can get them to shoot well.
Thanks again for your efforts on this. I think that all of my further tuning will center around a Reg2 setting of 135.
81 gr pellets had been traveling at 860 fps for me with my previous settings (Reg1-150/Reg2 - 140 bar). I only changed Reg2 to 135 bar, and ended up closing the valve adjuster knob by 3/4 turn. That immediately gave me a 20 fps speed bump to 880 fps, and it will give me maybe a couple more shots per fill before I fall off the reg.
I did test some of the 82 gr H&N Grizzly slugs this morning. Didn't do too much, they chrono'd at 864 fps without changing any gun settings, and they didn't seem very accurate. Will need some more work with those to see if I can get them to shoot well.
Thanks again for your efforts on this. I think that all of my further tuning will center around a Reg2 setting of 135.
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So I went out and performed another test with the 9 gram hammer installed this time. The first reg was some where around 185+ bar. I also discovered removing the two rubber balls and piston stop really has little effect with this setup.
I first went through with just the hammer installed from 130 to 170 bar. I did nearly the same thing with the two rubber balls and piston stop removed. However, this time I stopped as soon as the velocity drop off.
Peak showed be be some where between 135 and 145 bar.
81 JSB's
130 bar 898 to 902 fps
135 bar 895 to 907 fps
140 bar 902 to 907 fps
145 bar 907 to 909 fps (this was only done w/o rubber balls and piston stop) I later hit the same numbers with them installed.
150 bar 900 to 907 fps
155 bar 900 to 905 fps
165 bar 895 to 900 fps
170 bar 870 to 893 fps
Based on what I saw, I put some NSA's in. I reset reg 1 around 150 bar to 155 bar and reg 2 around 145 bar.
At the peak hammer setting and valve adjuster around imaginary line 6, I consistently got 835 to 837. I then proceeded to mess with the valve adjuster and micro wheel and was consistently in the mid 820's.
In summary, the 9 gram hammer made it easier and more consistent at my guns max settings to hit my old peak velocities, plus it gave me a couple extra neglible fps.
Prior to the hammer change, tuning to 835 was more difficult and the chrono bounced around from upper 820's to the peak 835 fps. It can now hold in the 830's relatively easily at max.
837 fps NSA equals 144.6 ft/lbs
909 fps JSB equals 146.6 ft/lbs
Below is the shot string.
I don't know how 156 ft lbs is reached, but I am getting there. I may tear the gun down and make sure all the ports are flowing freely and there is no overlap anywhere causing a loss. I also may try and find an even lighter valve adjuster spring. I feel like the valve needs to be open longer or bigger ports are needed to flow more air.
I first went through with just the hammer installed from 130 to 170 bar. I did nearly the same thing with the two rubber balls and piston stop removed. However, this time I stopped as soon as the velocity drop off.
Peak showed be be some where between 135 and 145 bar.
81 JSB's
130 bar 898 to 902 fps
135 bar 895 to 907 fps
140 bar 902 to 907 fps
145 bar 907 to 909 fps (this was only done w/o rubber balls and piston stop) I later hit the same numbers with them installed.
150 bar 900 to 907 fps
155 bar 900 to 905 fps
165 bar 895 to 900 fps
170 bar 870 to 893 fps
Based on what I saw, I put some NSA's in. I reset reg 1 around 150 bar to 155 bar and reg 2 around 145 bar.
At the peak hammer setting and valve adjuster around imaginary line 6, I consistently got 835 to 837. I then proceeded to mess with the valve adjuster and micro wheel and was consistently in the mid 820's.
In summary, the 9 gram hammer made it easier and more consistent at my guns max settings to hit my old peak velocities, plus it gave me a couple extra neglible fps.
Prior to the hammer change, tuning to 835 was more difficult and the chrono bounced around from upper 820's to the peak 835 fps. It can now hold in the 830's relatively easily at max.
837 fps NSA equals 144.6 ft/lbs
909 fps JSB equals 146.6 ft/lbs
Below is the shot string.
I don't know how 156 ft lbs is reached, but I am getting there. I may tear the gun down and make sure all the ports are flowing freely and there is no overlap anywhere causing a loss. I also may try and find an even lighter valve adjuster spring. I feel like the valve needs to be open longer or bigger ports are needed to flow more air.
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What I have noticed over time is the 1st and 2nd reg creep slightly, raising 5 bar or so. With that mentioned, I think I will set the 1st reg around 150 bar and the 2nd around 138 bar.
My thought is, the velocity peaks close to 140 bar and stays the same until 145 bar or so before dropping off slightly. If I keep it around there, as reg creeps slightly higher from sitting, it may fire the first cold shot at a similar velocity as the rest of the shot string. Plus, it will consume less air.
My thought is, the velocity peaks close to 140 bar and stays the same until 145 bar or so before dropping off slightly. If I keep it around there, as reg creeps slightly higher from sitting, it may fire the first cold shot at a similar velocity as the rest of the shot string. Plus, it will consume less air.
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Not good news!! Went to turn down the first reg and went to place the bottle back on and air wouldn't stop rushing out from the front regulator. Emptied the whole bottle of air as I tried to find where the leak was. Placed another bottle on and same thing started to happen. When I first installed tje bottle I noticed that the first reg was reading what the bottle pressure was. Removed bottle and dry fired to empty entire gun and when I went to place the bottle on the hissing began.
I had regulator creeping from day one but when I had the regulators.closer things seemed ok. This makes me wonder if this was the reason for poor groups the other day. Regardless, I'm sending it back to FX for them to get it together because this is too much. I wasn't planning on hunting with it because the slug liner isn't out yet but I guess I'm glad it happened while I was adjusting it rather than out at the range.
I would normally be totally pissed but realized that of my 4 FX rifles I will have now had to send back 3. I already filled out the form to send it back and uploaded my receipt/proof of purchase. Will wait now for the instructions to send it back and see what they say.
I still have my MK2, Maverick and Dream-Tac to keep me busy while the M3 gets fixed...
I had regulator creeping from day one but when I had the regulators.closer things seemed ok. This makes me wonder if this was the reason for poor groups the other day. Regardless, I'm sending it back to FX for them to get it together because this is too much. I wasn't planning on hunting with it because the slug liner isn't out yet but I guess I'm glad it happened while I was adjusting it rather than out at the range.
I would normally be totally pissed but realized that of my 4 FX rifles I will have now had to send back 3. I already filled out the form to send it back and uploaded my receipt/proof of purchase. Will wait now for the instructions to send it back and see what they say.
I still have my MK2, Maverick and Dream-Tac to keep me busy while the M3 gets fixed...
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Tonight I stripped the gun down. Upon re-assembly I thought of a way to get the C1 to measure just over 5.5 mm from the frame. Bare in mind it was originally 6.13. I am now around 5.6. I cheated around .5mm at the power plenum. The top rail (A6) has plenty of play and doesn't stress the other parts when screwed down. The holes lined up the same as before. I am very cautious about causing un-needed torque anywhere on the gun when I put it back together. Last, I re-adjusted the cocking linkage (B32, B33, and B17) length and the NSA slug probe depth.
Fx informed me the C1 should measure 5.5 to 6.5 off the frame. Mine was as tight as I could get it at 6.13mm before. I am curious if the extra half mm will give me a little more valve time, since the hammer will open the valve sooner. Maybe the fps will jump some.
I will check tomorrow sometime and report back. The gun is ready to roll and nothing bad happened with 4 test fires of the gun. Wish me luck lol.
Below is a photo of the change. I suggest using a micrometer and feeler gauges to set the spacing if anyone has the same issue.
Fx informed me the C1 should measure 5.5 to 6.5 off the frame. Mine was as tight as I could get it at 6.13mm before. I am curious if the extra half mm will give me a little more valve time, since the hammer will open the valve sooner. Maybe the fps will jump some.
I will check tomorrow sometime and report back. The gun is ready to roll and nothing bad happened with 4 test fires of the gun. Wish me luck lol.
Below is a photo of the change. I suggest using a micrometer and feeler gauges to set the spacing if anyone has the same issue.
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I'm sorry to hear about the reg. They don't look to hard to rebuild honestly, but I understand using the warranty. If you call FX and speak with their techs, they may just send you one. They have been pretty awesome to speak and deal with.
I have also noticed the same thing with the regs. If you go above a certain point they act weird. The first one is like 175 bar or 200 plus and nearly impossible to get perfect. The needle bounces a lot. I prefer it at 150 to 155 bar. The 2nd reg acts funny as soon as you go above 150 -155 bar. Per FX, the limit of the 2nd reg is 170 bar. I have to slowly adjust, shoot and repeat to watch the gauge move up. Under 150 bar and I can watch it as I raise the pressure.
My first reg got stuck at 90 bar once. I had to de-pressurize the gun, screw the reg screw in until it bottomed out and then back out to reset it. I honestly thought I broke it that day. This was way before I started this thread.
Anyway, I hope they take care of you and get it fixed.
I have also noticed the same thing with the regs. If you go above a certain point they act weird. The first one is like 175 bar or 200 plus and nearly impossible to get perfect. The needle bounces a lot. I prefer it at 150 to 155 bar. The 2nd reg acts funny as soon as you go above 150 -155 bar. Per FX, the limit of the 2nd reg is 170 bar. I have to slowly adjust, shoot and repeat to watch the gauge move up. Under 150 bar and I can watch it as I raise the pressure.
My first reg got stuck at 90 bar once. I had to de-pressurize the gun, screw the reg screw in until it bottomed out and then back out to reset it. I honestly thought I broke it that day. This was way before I started this thread.
Anyway, I hope they take care of you and get it fixed.
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My wife thinks I am nuts and have a problem, since all I do is take up her table space and tinker all day. I can't help but seek perfection. 
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My wife thinks I am nuts and have a problem, since all I do is take up her table space and tinker all day. I can't help but seek perfection.
, I've been pushed to the garage. I used a digital pressure gauge so I could be as close as possible for the 1st reg and 2nd reg. I will still give FX a call on Monday but I just want them to take care of it at this point. When I received my M3 it was shipped without the pellet probe, FX sent me one next day air, but it made me question if it had been tested prior to being sent; just set the regulators but didn't fire it.
The first regulator has always been jumpy and when left alone the regulator creep was evident. When adjusting the reg it became more evident. I don't have a vice to try and take that 1st reg off and I don't want to bend or damage the rifle trying to take it off and with what happened I would just feel better if FX really looked at the rifle and got it back to where it should be.
I appreciate your words and ideas; keep up the testing so when I get my rifle back I can just jump in. Also, maybe the heavy liner will be out by then as hunting season starts in MA in a few weeks...
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Sounds like a good idea. I ordered some Sekhmet digital gauges a while ago, but they were on backorder. Come to think of it, I think I got an email about them coming back into stock in August. August is almost over and they still aren't here...hmm?
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I went out this morning and tested the new setup with the C1 a half mil further back. It did not improve the velocity. I got some of the JSB's near 905 to 907, but it wasn't as consistent as yesterday. In all honesty, 898 to 903 fps was the most consistent with the JSB's. Pointless to state, but I will be puting it back to where it was yesterday.
I shot a couple hundred shots. I tried messing with the hammer and valve pressures again as well. I was curious if having less spring load from the hammer on to valve adjuster spring, combined with higher reg pressures would help keep the valve open longer. It did not and the velocities dropped. The peak velocities occurred with everything maxed out and between 135 to 145 bar again, same as yesterday.
The 2nd valve on my gun seems more finicky to adjust lately as well, so I may take it apart, check it out, clean and re-lube/replace the o-rings if needed.
I also discovered the 93 grain NSA's are very hold sensitive. When free handed off my knee, they were hitting pretty much right where I aimed every shot. When laying down on a bipod and rear support, they flew all over in a 2" circle. I noticed the gun recoils more with them too, so maybe that and the time they are in the barrel is causing it. Food for thought.
I shot a couple hundred shots. I tried messing with the hammer and valve pressures again as well. I was curious if having less spring load from the hammer on to valve adjuster spring, combined with higher reg pressures would help keep the valve open longer. It did not and the velocities dropped. The peak velocities occurred with everything maxed out and between 135 to 145 bar again, same as yesterday.
The 2nd valve on my gun seems more finicky to adjust lately as well, so I may take it apart, check it out, clean and re-lube/replace the o-rings if needed.
I also discovered the 93 grain NSA's are very hold sensitive. When free handed off my knee, they were hitting pretty much right where I aimed every shot. When laying down on a bipod and rear support, they flew all over in a 2" circle. I noticed the gun recoils more with them too, so maybe that and the time they are in the barrel is causing it. Food for thought.
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Well she is all back together again. The 2nd reg and the O-rings looked good, so I relubed it and reinstalled it.
Now I just need my order of pellets and NSA slugs to show up. I am running low now lol.
Now I just need my order of pellets and NSA slugs to show up. I am running low now lol.
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I pushed one of the NSA slugs into the rifling of the barrel slightly. Man are they tight. I then pushed it out and measured it where the lands made grooves. 355 to .356"
I wonder if the .356's would fly down there barrel slightly easier and gain a little speed. May have to order some to try.
I wonder if the .356's would fly down there barrel slightly easier and gain a little speed. May have to order some to try.
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I definitely appreciate you taking us along for the ride as you continue on this journey. I'm glad to see some other .35 forum members trying to get the rifle where it needs to be.
The NSA slugs, when I shot them made such a different sound versus the pellets that's why I stopped shooting them. I was also concerned with what the slugs may do to the liner. The other liners, .22, .25 and .30 seem to be okay with lower weight slugs but not to good with the heavy slugs. That's why a few days ago i just decided to wait for the slug liner but then the leak! Either way it's going to be a waiting game for the next few days or weeks while the M3 gets repaired.
The NSA slugs, when I shot them made such a different sound versus the pellets that's why I stopped shooting them. I was also concerned with what the slugs may do to the liner. The other liners, .22, .25 and .30 seem to be okay with lower weight slugs but not to good with the heavy slugs. That's why a few days ago i just decided to wait for the slug liner but then the leak! Either way it's going to be a waiting game for the next few days or weeks while the M3 gets repaired.
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