FX FX Impact M4 - Velocity consistency?

[Vetmx]

Did you put solid barrels on all your impacts ?

Yes. Both of my .25‘s have real barrels. My .22 is still using a modified FX system.

I‘m back to elaborate. I have a stack of .25 FX liners. They simply just don’t perform in the weight range of slugs or shooting slugs and pellets like the barrels that I built. Not even in the same ballpark. But on the flip side, I built two barrels for my .22 and they could only match my modified FX barrel system. So why lug around the extra weight. You might think what kind of difference can a 500mm chromoly or stainless make in weight over a FX tube setup. Let me tell you, it’s noticeable.

 

[weevil]

My Panthera is bone stock shooting 40 grain ATP kings, and I’ll head shot squirrels at 200 yards like it is nothing. Same thing could be said about the BRK ghost with all the add ons it has. If there is a market for it they’ll make it. Your point is rather moot. I’ve had a P3, those RTI guns are total duds IMO. There is a reason why FX is usually on top in competitions. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Nobody is disputing the competition performance, they shoot great when warmed up. This thread is focused on the ability of an AG to shoot from cold at a consistent speed. That said, the Czech companies simply don’t have the resources to compete with a T-Rex like FX in sponsorship, advertising and hookups.

As an aside, I had two Panthera 600s that had no first shot blues. My wife just didn’t like me knocking her favorite lamps over in the house when I had to move them around. The .22 was also a pretty angry gun shooting kings whereas the Mora is just ticking over. I also have a Wildcat .30 that I’ve beaten to death but I can let that sit for months and it hits the spot from cold. Definitely not anti-FX but my M3 simply couldn’t do its job of hitting rats at 80yards, on their schedule. I tried explaining to them that I had a crippled gun and asked them to stick around for another minute while I dry fired but I guess they had stuff to do. I would argue that it was the rats that were disrespectful of the M3, rather than me.

 

[Xcaliber]

Here’s my take on the issue. If you find the ultimate setting on your gun that is as accurate as you need and more importantly consistent day to day and you have first shot or shot blues, it may not be the end of the world. If what you use the gun for does not require a grab and shoot gun, just join the dry fire gang. I was a member of that gang when I returned to the platform. I knew I had to dump four shots before I got down to business. But seeing as how only my most expensive hunting rigs required this caused me to want to fix it. I don’t get out of my truck and dump shots with my RTI’s, Taipan, AAA Evol or any others so I just didn’t want that life with my MKll’s and M3’s. But because of some of the features I felt I needed with an Impact, I could live with it even if I couldn’t fix it.

Where your gun performs at its best in relation to the plateau and the knee will determine how bad your first shot blues are. And that’s with the plenum parts too. Mubhaur part or peek disk. The peek disc nets the same results as the full plenum throwback to the MKl plug. But the peek disc must be done right. I made a bunch and gave them all away otherwise I‘d hook you up.

Fortunately for me, whenever i see pests at the backyard that need taken care of quickly, the first gun i reach out for is always the Umarex Notos, it's my lightest, shortest, most compact and agile gun i shoot offhanded, very quick to sprung into action in a hurry, the Notos could park for several days but whenever i picked it up for pesting, the very first cold shot is always head shot every single time, instant light out, the Notos has never failed me thus far. Even if the M4 never had this cold shot issue to begin with, the Notos is still my number 1 go-to for backyard pesting, 20ft-lb is plenty for the job and it never misses, no leak, no reg creep, no POI shift or anything, it just work!

I've always settled on keeping the M4 tune right below the plateau where it feel and sound most comfortable. Currently the cold shot deviation is about 20 to 30fps lower, not enough to be noticeable in close range plinking (910fps vs 940fps) unless i put it on chronography. The M4 is not a dedicated hunting gun or anything so the cold shot crap is more of an annoyance like having a tiny splinter in your skin Essentially, the M4 is something that I wanted, rather than what i need. I probably would just end up leaving it be, unless it's something that would progress and get worst over time.

 

[Troy Bakel]

Today (10-17) was colder than the 11th with wind at the muzzle from 8 o'clock . Plenum pressure had come up to where it was on the 11th and the 1st stage pressure was at setpoint.

I reviewed the first shot target data from the 11th and lowered my holdover a bit. Adjusted my windage hold a bit left knowing a wind at the muzzle from 8 o'clock will cause a diabolo leaving from a righthand twist barrel to jump up and to the right. Took the shot. And the very first shot of the day impacted just below center of the 2" tip to tip diamond at 100 yards.

Lesson learned - an air rifle is a dynamic tool that you can adjust to just as easily as you can adjust to wind conditions.

First shot plenum pressure data will now be part of my dope sheet.

 

[Skidoo165]

My Panthera is worse.

My panthera in 25 is awesome, never ever looses poi, 42gr slugs @985, even sitting for 6 months
It's my squirrel gun and it's phenomenal

 

[Skidoo165]

Just curious, what caliber and slug weight are you powering that would require reg at 150 bar? I have a few boxes of 35gr and .38gr NSA slugs in .22, haven't try them yet as I don't think my M4's stock hammer is heavy enough to hit open the valve at 150 bar. In a stock form with 600mm barrel and zero upgrades, my M4 seems to be most comfortable and quietest to run at sub 50ft-lb @120 bar on the reg.

Last i checked, Matt Dubber was running his at 165~170 bar for .22 38gr and .40gr but his impact is fully tricked out, heaviest hammer, slug kit, 700/800mm barrel and the whole nine yards.

Mostly .22 and same here, heavy hammer and spring, 800 barrel 185bar to get 40gr slugs at 1030, I've even got them going 1100fps and the gun performs perfectly, just not necessary, most slugs in .22 shoot awesome at 1000fps

 

[Xcaliber]

Viking Airgunner installed a 1st regulator into his new Impact M4 and posted his finding on youtube, his cold shot took 5 shots to stabilize when he had only 2nd reg, and 9~10 shots with the 1st reg installed, he tried again 4hr later with the valve turned in and seems to not getting any cold shot symptom. Overnight Reg creep was around 6 bar when he had one reg, and dropped down to 2 bar creep with 1st reg installed.

But the refresh/cycling time of 6 seconds between shots is absolutely horrendous, too long of a delay for quick follow up shot in a hunting situation, or if you need to take down 2nd or 3rd near by targets quickly. is this type of refresh delay the norm for all M3 running two regs? how do you shorten the refresh time?

 

[Headshots]

Viking Airgunner instaled a 1st regulator into his new Impact M4 and posted his finding on youtube, his cold shot took 5 shots to stabilize when he had only 2nd reg, and 9~10 shots with the 1st reg installed, he tried again 4hr later with the valve turned in and seems to not getting any cold shot symptom. Overnight Reg creep was around 6 bar when he had one reg, and dropped down to 2 bar creep with 1st reg installed.

But the refresh/cycling time of 6 seconds between shots is absolutely horrendous, too long of a delay for quick follow up shot in a hunting situation, or if you need to take down 2nd or 3rd near by targets quickly. is this type of refresh delay the norm for all M3 running two regs? how do you shorten the refresh time?

Instead of a 30 bar difference between regs go 40+ bar .

 

[Xcaliber]

Instead of a 30 bar difference between regs go 40+ bar .

so the bigger the gap between 1st and 2nd reg, the shorter the delay/refresh?

1st reg @160 bar w/ 2nd reg @80 bar is going to have much shorter refresh than 1st reg 160 bar w/ 2nd reg @140 bar? so if you have a high power tune that requires the 2nd reg to be at 150~160bar, you would then need to raise your 1st reg to 200~210 bar to keep the refresh down?

 

[Vetmx]

Here again people are over thinking two regs. If your complete refresh time is lets say 5-6 seconds and you can’t deliver a shot on target when your reg is at 137 instead of 140b in three seconds, you have bigger issues. It’s not your reg. Your tune/gun is too sensitive. Plain and simple is your tune is walking too thin of a line. Your gun is walking a tightrope of accuracy. Not good.

A lot of guns out there can deliver spot on projectiles in a 5+b window of the actual set point of the reg. I feel it’s mainly because the gun and its components aren’t harmonically sensitive.

 

[Vetmx]

I’m in the Headshots camp. You want to know where my second reg is set. Catch a pic of one of my guns from the left side and subtract around 40b from what my gauge shows. Unless I’m already off the first reg. Then it might get a little confusing. Like I said before, I treat the first reg like an infantryman. It’s just stopping a bullet intended for my second reg. It doesn’t have to be precise, it just has to work and go into bypass.

I just left one of my Impacts in my truck for a week. Major temperature swings. Archery hunting has taken precedence but I wanted it just in case I hunt squirrel on my down time. I brought it in my house the other day and it was down to 100b so I knew I had a leak. My first reg literally blew a piston. Never seen something like I saw. Fixed in about ten minutes but I can certainly understand FX going back to one reg just to save the average customer something else to worry about. And their warranty department.

 

[Xcaliber]

Not sure how many fps will be affected, have never own any guns with two regs, won't need it for my M4...it's more of a curiosity thing.

 

[MarkA]

First Shots Table.
Impact M4 .30 cal
Hades 44.8Gr
Micro at 4.9
Macro at 14
Valve adjust at 4.5
Reg at 130bar
Chrono is a Garmin Xero
45 yard shots = 1/2"group When velocity finally settles to 965-970 range. 1" low left to start.
Just though I'd share my observations.

 

[Deleted member 58109]

When I got my m4 it didn't start acting up until right around 200 shots.
Did a bunch of reading about it and what was tried to correct it
Seen people adding nylon and delrin washers to support that o ring.
Problem is when doing so the o ring drags worse
And the warmer it gets from the valve rod drag the worse it gets.
2nd thing was reg creep not to bad but maybe 4-5 bar in 24 hrs.
Contacted a relative who makes o rings from a to z from automotive to high pressure gasses and numatics.
Took the gun apart brought him the valve rod and plenum tube
He put them into a jig in the lab to replicate the gun firing and recorded the o ring surface temp
The rod temp rod speed talk about getting to the root of the issue LOL he is something to watch.
3 days later he came up with the compounds that were in the original o ring which he said wasn't even close according to him.
He had I'd say 200 maybe more maybe less different compound o rings he went through.
Also changed the size of the i think the orig is 5.5x1.5 that changed to 1.87
He also said if I wanted this to work the best it could I'd have to coat the valve rod.
He does coating to these high pressure 22000psi linear solenoid pintle valves
He said there is almost zero co officiant drag I said isn't that going to add to the od
He already had it figured lol.
Anyhow my shot counts are no more than 4 fps apart don't matter hot cold can sit2448 hrs.
Another thing was matching the regulater washer thickness
Matching them polishing them took all the sharp edges off and had him put that coating on them.
I also purchased that plenum tube that a member is having made as that really will do justice with suporting the o ring.
so far after all this r&d the gun shoots really well reg recovers within 4 seconds no more than 2 bar creep wether it sits for day or 2
I have my reg set at 128 shooting 30-32 aea or h&n slugs in the 600mm barrel at 970s
Little heavier in the 700mm but slower fps 930s and they group well at 75 yds nickel to quarter size groups .
Yeah it was some work but I enjoy such a challenge have been a gear head for 40+ yrs.
So tinkering is my thing.

 

[greenbeans]

When I got my m4 it didn't start acting up until right around 200 shots.
Did a bunch of reading about it and what was tried to correct it
Seen people adding nylon and delrin washers to support that o ring.
Problem is when doing so the o ring drags worse
And the warmer it gets from the valve rod drag the worse it gets.
2nd thing was reg creep not to bad but maybe 4-5 bar in 24 hrs.
Contacted a relative who makes o rings from a to z from automotive to high pressure gasses and numatics.
Took the gun apart brought him the valve rod and plenum tube
He put them into a jig in the lab to replicate the gun firing and recorded the o ring surface temp
The rod temp rod speed talk about getting to the root of the issue LOL he is something to watch.
3 days later he came up with the compounds that were in the original o ring which he said wasn't even close according to him.
He had I'd say 200 maybe more maybe less different compound o rings he went through.
Also changed the size of the i think the orig is 5.5x1.5 that changed to 1.87
He also said if I wanted this to work the best it could I'd have to coat the valve rod.
He does coating to these high pressure 22000psi linear solenoid pintle valves
He said there is almost zero co officiant drag I said isn't that going to add to the od
He already had it figured lol.
Anyhow my shot counts are no more than 4 fps apart don't matter hot cold can sit2448 hrs.
Another thing was matching the regulater washer thickness
Matching them polishing them took all the sharp edges off and had him put that coating on them.
I also purchased that plenum tube that a member is having made as that really will do justice with suporting the o ring.
so far after all this r&d the gun shoots really well reg recovers within 4 seconds no more than 2 bar creep wether it sits for day or 2
I have my reg set at 128 shooting 30-32 aea or h&n slugs in the 600mm barrel at 970s
Little heavier in the 700mm but slower fps 930s and they group well at 75 yds nickel to quarter size groups .
Yeah it was some work but I enjoy such a challenge have been a gear head for 40+ yrs.
So tinkering is my thing.

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Gotta start selling the oring in the classifieds

 

[Plinkalot]

How often do you clean your barrel?

I swab mine out every 2-3 fills. No problems with low FPS for the first few rounds.

 

[Deleted member 58109]

At some point in the ownership, you ask yourself why the AG that “out performs them all” has so many fixes for sale from the manufacturer. Harmonic tuners, tensioners, CF liners, probes, hammers, springs. Can’t have your cake and eat it and those things aren’t being sold to patch wonky tuning. It’s not hating, it’s just figuring out that you got stuck in a toxic relationship. Then you can start dating doodad-free Miss .22 RTI Mora, who’ll drop a 40grain slug into a squirrels nuts at 100yards even when you haven’t fondled her trigger for two weeks.

There called tuning parts for those that like to tune the parts are available
Unlike some manufactrers.

 

[Off_target]

How often do you clean your barrel?

I swab mine out every 2-3 fills. No problems with low FPS for the first few rounds.

Never.

 

[Off_target]

Just curious, when you left your FX Impact M4 overnight and shoot it the next day, the very first shot you took in the follow day does the velocity changed from the previous day?


If there's no change in velocity no matter how long the gun left unused, then it should indicate everything is working as it should.

If it's lower in the first couple of shots, then went back to the same velocity as previous day, then it could possibly mean there's a small slow leak in the plenum or the reg right?

If it's higher in the first or 2nd shot the next day, then drop back down to the same velocity as previous day, then that's possibly a sign of reg creep, when more air creeping into the plenum overnight


Not taking about POI or anything, just the velocity alone.

I'd do have slight changes however when paying attention to temperature swings it makes a lot of sense why fps changes.

 

[L.Leon]

The first low shot is easy to overcome. Just put a couple clicks on the power wheel and there you go. Lol

What if you “forget” to add those few clicks…